India- US Diplomatic Crisis after Indian female diplomat arrested and strip searched

reply to post by maddy21


It's common the world over with all diplomats. Every country in the world has at one point or another mistreated another's diplomats. If you are in that country, or follow the news from that country, it's going to appear to be more common that yours are being mistreated when the reality is it's happening to all of them.

SLAYER69
reply to post by maddy21

 

OR

It was just the stupid jack hole NY police screwing up badly and India is way over reacting....


But I guess you may be right. It's a plot.

I have to note for personal opinion here.... I don't believe India would fly off the handle with THIS extreme a response in terms of international meaning, on first confirmation this happened.

I'm thinking they made the initial complaints and calls to Washington and the response they got led to a blow out like we're seeing here. All it may have taken, with past history, is one idiot in State or higher being insensitive and idiotic about cultural and diplomatic standards of treatment ...and, well, we aren't the only nation that stands real hard on principle for it's own sake sometimes.

I hope Kerry can at least fake being a Statesman for a change and DO something useful, like make peace not more problems. After all, this is the definition of why we have a State Department.

Every time I get pulled over I always make sure I scream that I'm a foreign diplomat and thus have immunity, but the officer typically just beats me even more severely. I don't think the police are terribly concerned about any crap people say as they're being arrested. On what occasion do police actualy stop arresting you based on something you say to them? To stop would suggest that their authoritah has limits. Not something they're willing to admit.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I agree there is no excuse for how NY Police conducted themselves in this manner. Still trying to figure out exactly what happened.

I think both sides are pole-vaulting over mouse turds here.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Well, I have a question perhaps you or someone else can answer better than my own vague understanding of how this works.

However, when a Diplomat identifies themselves as that with something more than words to support it? Cops are supposed to back off and hold, aren't they? Immunity is Immunity after all, and there aren't many footnotes to that one. (Okay.. there are a couple..but babysitter issues sure aren't among them). I don't suggest they are supposed to just wish them well instantly and walk off ...but I'd think the physical handling should end immediately until clarification of status is determined??

Also.. Again, this isn't my thing so I don't know for sure. A New Yorker could answer this better...... As New York is as much a World city as an American one for any number of reasons, this isn't Mayberry with Barney. Wouldn't the NYPD be well trained on the specific 'issues' relating to handling diplomats right from the start?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


True and I agree.

They should have handled this more professionally, that's a given. Now, Being NY and having the UN headquarters located there I'm sure they have guidelines with all the checks and balances they should have followed. However, and don't take me wrong. She doesn't look like what many average people would consider what a Diplomat looks like. [No excuse I know] but still.

Also

I wonder how many times the Police have heard the "I'm a Diplomat" and "I have immunity" line being NY and all?

www.indianexpress.com...

I must admit that I broke down many times as the indignities of repeated handcuffing, stripping and cavity searches, swabbing, hold up with common criminals and drug addicts were all being imposed upon me despite my incessant assertions of immunity

Cavity search....really ? this is not going to end well ....

reply to post by SLAYER69


You bring up a good point that I'm taking somewhat on faith and really, shouldn't be. Did she offer the official Dipo passport and/or other paperwork to go with the statement or did she just declare she had Diplomatic Immunity? A lot of little details I suppose. Many of them pretty critical in framing this for how it happened, as I consider it a bit more.

I guess it really comes down to a straight question here. Did the cops handling her KNOW ..or just have her words...to believe she was a Diplomat?

...and on that thought, wouldn't that have flashed like Neon on their computers when they ran her name as a routine matter during a traffic stop? Surely by the time they got back to the precinct and processing her?

Phooey... You threw in a question that makes it all fuzzy again for actions.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The police will NEVER arrest person without identifying her/him..i believe it would be extremely stupid thing to do that..this is more or less a deliberate attempt as this is the 3rd time this is happening , First time NYPD arrested a diplomats daughter on false charges of cyber bullying ,the school refused to place charges against the real bully .... Girl with help of the school teacher sued the city for 1.5 million $ damages

US govt. was very well informed about this , US govt. also did say they were only undergoing normal procedures even after the protest ... Hence forth India responded with completely removing privileges

www.thehindu.com...

Krittika Biswas, daughter of the vice-counsel at the Indian Consulate in Manhattan, Debashish Biswas, also claims she was ill-treated in prison and was forced to go to the toilet in front of other prisoners.

Her lawyer, Ravi Batra, said her arrest on February 8, which lasted more than 24 hours, was a violation of international, federal, State and city law.

Mr. Batra said that neither the father nor the Consulate General of India, Prabhu Dayal, was informed of the arrest.

reply to post by SLAYER69

This makes it right to pay somebody below the Minimum wage? Could you live on that? Would you even want to? Also, it's not like Diplomats are strapped for cash.

Someone else posted the lady in question made less than the state says she has to pay her baby sitter..

You and I are going to disagree on this.

Free food, free room and $500 bucks to spend on yourself would sound pretty darn good to many people. Humm 20$ a day for food X 30 = 600$ X water X room which could be rented out (not in N.Y. unless for allot more) for say $500 so I would place the value at +1600$ minimum and they didn't even have to lick a stamp to pay a bill.

We have people on social security trying to live on less than that and still pay for a place to live, food, and transportation. The whole thing is asinine just like Bloomberg and some of his ideas. Oh, can't say that for he is rich and has connections. Rich people can be dumb sometimes too he is living proof IMO.

Like I said in the first post I hope India rubs their face in it and there is enough pressure brought to bare that the next time they wanna pull something like they will think twice.

reply to post by maddy21


what? she is complaining about being treated the same way as the US government treats their own citizens? NY is the litmus test, the pilot program, for federal/state/city policing partnerships. this is what freedom looks like baby, as long as scum lead us in the name of elitist human waste.

In the article on the front page of Yahoo that I read, it stated that the actual crime she committed and was arrested for was filing fraudulent Visa paperwork. Did I read this wrong?

To me, if this is the case, she did indeed commit a crime and should do the time - or be sent home in disgrace for perpetrating fraud in our country (like we don't have enough of our own citizens and politicians to do that!). In my eyes, filing official immigration-type paperwork that she damn well knew was full of lies is plain ole criminal fraud.

I certainly wouldn't even think of going to a foreign country and handing them a stack of visa paperwork that I knew was a heap of lies. And I cannot even fathom what the penalty in India would be for said fraud if the situation was reversed!

If they strip-searched her, I think that's over the top - a simple pat-down would do, would it not?

Other than that, sorry lady. When you break the law in this country and get caught, you get sent to jail until you can post bail. In the meantime, yes, you have to use the bathroom in front of other wrong-doers. That's how our jails and prisons roll. Maybe she should have read up on that before she chose to lie and break the law. And while she may be a diplomat, how does that excuse her - or any other foreign representative of any other government, for that matter - when she is breaking the law in a foreign country? Are these diplomats not guests in our house, so to speak? I would think that as a guest in another country, she would have better manners than to defraud her host country.

Now, if her housekeeper is upset and feels she was not paid enough, she is most welcome to head back to India and find an employer who keeps their promises and doesn't lie.

Diplomatic immunity aside, whatever happened to good manners and being a thoughtful guest in someone else's home or country?

Just my two cents... I certainly am no expert in this arena...

Here is the Yahoo link that I read and referred to at the beginning of my post: Yahoo Link

DustbowlDebutante
In the article on the front page of Yahoo that I read, it stated that the actual crime she committed and was arrested for was filing fraudulent Visa paperwork. Did I read this wrong?

To me, if this is the case, she did indeed commit a crime and should do the time - or be sent home in disgrace for perpetrating fraud in our country (like we don't have enough of our own citizens to do that!). In my eyes, filing official immigration-type paperwork that she damn well knew was full of lies is plain ole criminal fraud.

I certainly wouldn't even think of going to a foreign country and handing them a stack of visa paperwork that I knew was a heap of lies. And I cannot even fathom what the penalty in India would be for said fraud if the situation was reversed!

If they strip-searched her, I think that's over the top - a simple pat-down would do, would it not?

Other than that, sorry lady. When you break the law in this country and get caught, you get sent to jail until you can post bail. In the meantime, yes, you have to use the bathroom in front of other wrong-doers. That's how our jails and prisons roll. Maybe she should have read up on that before she chose to lie and break the law. And while she may be a diplomat, how does that excuse her - or any other foreign representative of any other government, for that matter - when she is breaking the law in a foreign country? Are these diplomats not guests in our house, so to speak? I would think that as a guest in another country, she would have better manners than to defraud her host country.

Now, if her housekeeper is upset and feels she was not paid enough, she is most welcome to head back to India and find an employer who keeps their promises and doesn't lie.

Diplomatic immunity aside, whatever happened to good manners and being a thoughtful guest in someone else's home or country?

Just my two cents... I certainly am no expert in this arena...

Here is the Yahoo link that I read and referred to at the beginning of my post: Yahoo Link

edit on 17-12-2013 by DustbowlDebutante because: add linky

I can agree with everything you said: If she filed false paperwork she should be deported which in itself would be a serious loss of face. There still is a stratified social system in India and she may have thought her being one of the big upper level (high born) types she did not have to play the game... Or that is the way she was told everyone does it... Either way I doubt the cavity search report will sit well with the Indian Government.

reply to post by DustbowlDebutante


Treaty law does not allow the NYPD to arrest her for visa fraud. Hell, I'm not sure NYPD can enforce visa laws anyway. State can PNG her if they want to but NYPD doesn't have a big enough badge to touch the woman. If State wants a diplomatic crisis, it's theirs to start.

reply to post by 727Sky


she filed false paperwork for her HOUSEKEEPER the one she evidently was not paying a full wage....so it seems she may have been trying to help out the poor woman not screw her over.
news.yahoo.com...

Devyani Khobragade, India's deputy consul general in New York, is accused of submitting false documents to obtain a work visa for her Manhattan housekeeper

and another key factor key part of all of this is accused of ie not proven or convicted yet so lets at least follow our own laws and not preconvict some one with out a trial
so perhaps part of her salary was to cover costs of what ever she had to do to get the lady into the country,sad thing is its the housekeeper that is gonna get sent back and its still gonna cause a huge diplomatic issue that im sure is giving some poor soul at the state department huge headaches right now

reply to post by 727Sky

727Sky


I can agree with everything you said: If she filed false paperwork she should be deported which in itself would be a serious loss of face. There still is a stratified social system in India and she may have thought her being one of the big upper level (high born) types she did not have to play the game... Or that is the way she was told everyone does it... Either way I doubt the cavity search report will sit well with the Indian Government.

I'm not saying it isn't so, but do we have a verified news report stating that there was indeed a cavity search? I saw the words "strip search" several times...but not necessarily the actual words "cavity search," unless I just missed it.

reply to post by RalagaNarHallas


reply to post by Bedlam


I do feel sorry for the housekeeper, as it doesn't sound as though she had anything to with the alleged fraud, other than simply wanting to work for this lady in the US for a fair wage, which I think are reasonable things to want in life. It's not her fault, but it still sounds like she will be the one caught in the middle of this mess and stands to lose the most out of the deal.

And although she very well may have been trying to help out the housekeeper rather than screw her over (IF these allegations are true - I too believe in guilty until proven innocent - that is why I said "If she did this" in my first post above), as other posters have mentioned, I don't think that excuses the fact that she committed fraud (if she did indeed do these things she stands accused of) . When someone comes into our country illegally or under false pretenses...it's still illegal, is it not? We can scream and rant about our porous southern border, but because this lady has diplomatic immunity and was committing fraud on behalf of her house keeper in order to "help the lady out" it's somehow different? I'd bet the guys leading people thru the Mexican and Texas deserts, or the guys packing Mexican nationals into the back of a semi truck and driving them across the border feel as if they are just trying to help those folks out, too.

It leaves me torn; I feel for people who just want to come to the US for a better life. I just wish everyone would do it the legal way. And when I say everyone, I also mean the housekeepers of diplomats along with all of the other "special" or "privileged" people out there.

And I think you're correct in that this was not within NYPD's jurisdiction. I would think this would come under the jurisdiction of ICE. I don't know what proper procedure would have been. Perhaps once she had been identified, NYPD should have asked her to remain there and called ICE to the scene? Like I said, this really isn't within my realm of knowledge or expertise...other than knowing you damn sure don't lie on government paperwork! Lol. We all know what happens when you lie on IRS paperwork, eh?

As for the Indian Government... IF, I repeat, IF she in all actuality DID in fact commit fraud by lying on the housekeeper's visa application (or whatever the document was), then maybe they should reevaluate their screening process for choosing who they send overseas to represent their country. I would be mortified and embarrassed if I had sent a person to another country on behalf of my entire country, putting that person in the position of representing my country, and that person lied to the government of the host country via a visa application for a housekeeper.

As an aside: Do housekeepers really make $4K - $5K a month? If so, I definitely went into the wrong profession....

reply to post by DustbowlDebutante



The housekeeper was asked to return to India by the high court in India , after which she ran away never to be seen again . apparently she wanted an American green card and a visa , when the diplomat refused , she threatened to sue her and asked for $10000 and a green card . She still refused . That woman will probably be asked to be extradited to India ...

and btw.... for those people talking about "she was a higher class"... no she wasn't...she is from supposedly the "untouchable" class who ended up as a diplomat in U.S ... i think this should make it clear how much caste system is taken into consideration in India ....

maddy21
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

That maid signed an agreement that she will be getting those wages which she was provided. She basically agreed to it in India, it was under that condition she was allowed to go to the U.S . She is being payed Rs.30,000, which is a ridiculously high amount considering Indian standards and also considering she does not have to many expenses in U.S .


-News coming in that all the Barricades and special protection provided for US embassies has been withdrawn which was specially placed since 9/11
-All air port passes and special privileges for US diplomats withdrawn

edit on 17-12-2013 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)

yupp, i live in india and it shocks me how little people are paid.
So my maids are all paid around 5-7 thousand rupees, long residing ones get 12 thousand.
fast food delivery guys are paid like 3 thousand rs a month!
My school teachers were paid 25!!

This woman got it good bro. as well as enough to send back to her family.

Low wages suck, but this is the world we live in. (my fathers cryptic answers) either you swim along the current, or you drown.