Is there a phenomenon which can be explained but is still a wonder ?

Hi, greetings from germany.

When i was young i often had discussions with my father. He is a really rational person who believes that anything can be explained. ANd i often sensed that for him this believe took away a kind of openness for the wonder of life.. He often seems to be in a state in which he thinks that science gives things a "raison d'être"..a reason for it to exist. ANd as soon as this reason is "known" -> the "mystical nature" is sucked out of it .

I never understood that. For me there was never an important answer to existence and consciousness which could really EXPLAIN anything. Ok many explanations could explain how things work but WHY it works like that no explanation could show me. I was the kid that never stopped asking: WHY? WHY?...

I think that every phenomenon can be related to a cause. But i dont think that the cause you will find will be without another cause. That means: i think there is no self-sufficiency in any cause. This is what Buddhists call emptiness. Everything works in relationship to something else but is not a "single cause".


What i always find strange is that for some people the "wonder of things/Existence/processes" seem to be sucked out as soon as there is a scientific (mathematical, physical,chemical etc) explanation for something. In a way they seem to overlook the miracle in the moment of knowing an explanation. THey seem to think as soon as they hear an explanation: that a thing is explained. But when you really ask yourself if the thing is explained you will know that no such thing exists as an explanation for anything. What exists is: simplifications, interpretations, observations, repetitions etc but no explanations.....

Many people seem to be happy very fast with explanations. Science often sells us that as soon there is an explanation this the "End of causality"..this is THE EXPLANATION ITSELF. Of at least we are acting like science would tell this.

For example: we see brainwaves and think that we found thoughts...we dont even question this.. We think that the brainwaves are the cause of thoughts and not the effect of another cause....

I dont understand that.

When science finds an answer there are always new questions which means "new causes" that have to be found as an explanation for the answers...

So for me mysticism and science go hand in hand. Its "THIS AND THAT". I dont believe that the big bang theory is able to disguise the wonder of existence but even if any theory would be accurate i still would feel awe because still i feel in my heart that NOTHING can explain my existence and consciousness itself in a way which puts away the mystical part of it.... In a metaphor: i think even god does not understand his own "being" because its without limits..



My questions: is there any phenomenon for you which can be explained scientifically in its depth and the explanation takes away any mystical notion.

or

Is there anything which is fully explained and still gives you a feeling of awe?

i would never tell my child that we really know why we exist...

Because we don´t . We don´t know why there is anything at all....

There could also have been nothing at all. NOTHING.

Why is there SOMETHING. Why is there SUCHNESS.
We don´t know at all. And thats a great feeling.

My questions: is there any phenomenon for you which can be explained scientifically in its depth and the explanation takes away any mystical notion.

or

Is there anything which is fully explained and still gives you a feeling of awe?

Well.

Not that it's fully explained by science (or any other body of knowledge) but most people are satisfied enough with the explanation of the cause that they more or less dismiss further inquiry. For me it's incredibly magical and mysterious still, but most seem to have let its magic be sucked out by believing its merely random trivial byproducts of the brain.

I'm talking about dreaming. It amazes me that we create vast Worlds every night when we sleep. Intricate stories and wondrous adventures. New people we've never even seen before in waking life. Depths of emotion that at times rivals the ones we experience while awake. Yet when awake they're pretty much rendered unimportant because they are simply, as you said, brain waves.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


I feel the same. Sometimes i dream stuff and think: its not possible that i created that dream. I dreamed of whole different worlds with technology which was beyond the capacity of my phantasy...
I think we dont know much about the dreamstate....

kauskau

My questions: is there any phenomenon for you which can be explained scientifically in its depth and the explanation takes away any mystical notion.

or

Is there anything which is fully explained and still gives you a feeling of awe?

In every theater of physics (from quantum to cosmological) there is one phenomenon that consistently and reliably defies all known laws of cause and effect, and yet it's a phenomenon that is as commonplace as a thunderstorm on a late spring afternoon. It's called the Emergent System.

Some really common examples are thunderstorms, traffic, communities, life, and conscious awareness. Examples that are not as common are tornadoes and mobs. What defines an Emergent System is its capacity to emerge as a complete and indivisible holon entity that features unique physical properties that cannot be directly associated with the physical properties of any of the contributive entities or factors that came together in confluence to allow that Emergent System to become existent. Within the Material Realm, each Emergent System is also completely dependent on the ongoing confluence, and in a specific balance of component mixture (within parameters, of course), for it to continue to survive as the system that it is.

A tornado is a great example of an Emergent System whose survival is extremely precarious and immediately dependent upon an exact confluence balance. If any factor - warm air, cool air, moisture, terrain, high pressure, low pressure - slips out of balance with the other factors, that tornado will "rope out" immediately, only to instantly reform with its original strength as soon as that delicate balance is restored again. This can make it seem - as the destruction pattern is examined later - that the tornado "hopped" over one house only to flatten the house across the street. They don't hop. A tornado simply unravels and reforms within seconds (sometimes often) during the course of its "life" depending on how stable its emergence confluence is.

There are some Emergent Systems that have physical and "noumenal" factors. The most famous example is the mob. A crowd of people can be incrementally reduced - one person at a time - until there are only a relative handful, thereby losing its identity as a "crowd" (definitionally speaking). A mob can be completely vaporized in an instant, leaving behind a crowd of the very same people, and with all other material factors untouched and present. All that's needed is to eliminate the noumenal component (rage, fervor, fear, inspiration) and the mob is gone. This is what an Emergent System is all about, and this is why these systems are so mysterious and wondrous, even though they are absolutely commonplace.

Whenever you run into something that clearly exists, and yet science has no real explanation for it - like the "Dark Matter" of open space - then it's a pretty good bet that what you're dealing with is yet another Emergent System that simply hasn't been recognized (yet) for what it actually is.

The Dogon Alien mystery is - and the fact that 700 years ago, a primitive tribe had knowledge of the universe that we could only discover 15 years ago with the Hubble telescope.

Some say it has been explained, but it is really a wonder.

There is a great and comprehensive thread about the Dogons on ATS here:
Dogon Alien Mystery Demystified

reply to post by kauskau

Is there anything which is fully explained and still gives you a feeling of awe?

Would an scientific explanation of how spiritual energy/mind/body works together stop the feelings you can get from their use? Is the interaction in your body between your cells less remarkable if you know how it is done? Is a star less beautiful to look at when you know how all the processes interact. Even math can be beautiful to the beholder?

Some mystical people do not want their field quantified and understood on a higher level since they feel they cannot be creative when things are known. I am the opposite. I want to know the tricks and use it to the highest potential for the benefit of all.

reply to post by kauskau


I can only list what I personally know the explaination of - yet still stand in awe of

Is there anything which is fully explained and still gives you a feeling of awe?

a thunderstorm
the aura borealis
riding out a force 10 storm
sun rise / set in the mountains


^ not an exhaustive list - and yes some of them show I am easily pleased

reply to post by Saurus


unfortunately a hoax - so I am not impressed

reply to post by kauskau


I completely understand where you are coming from, because, to me, everything is a miracle, yet everyone I know behaves as you have described your father's behavior.

And it is, in part, that sort of human behavior that I am most awestricken by: it is the formalities, and injustice, and taboos, and lies, and all around sociopolitical bs that people live their lives by, while fully understanding that these mental constructs we adhere to, and delude ourselves by, are complete bs.

And I fully understand why people do it, but I wonder why no one seems to mind...

and I'm sure most adults have come to understand this at some point in their lives, but no one seems to give two #s, and they continue to play right along.

It is amazing.

ignorant_ape

unfortunately a hoax - so I am not impressed

A hoax? The information that the Dogons had is undisputed. It is only their contact with Western civilization that is in question.

reply to post by kauskau


What a great question. Science sometimes seems to give an answer, but yes it can still exist beside awe. For me, the first thing I thought of was childbirth. Ok, so I know what the books say, there's no mystery at all, but..but.. when you hold that tiny person for the very first time, the only word I can use to describe it is awe.

reply to post by kauskau


Rainbows!

Even though we know it's sunlight hitting water molecules that causes them to become colorfully vibrant, yet completely transparent, they still catch me looking for the pot of gold at the end!

Rainbows are a good metaphor for every explanation. You can observe it from far away but when you go into it you can not observe the cause for it...The cause is always "somewhere else"....

I'm not sure if it's actually been adequately explained, but I've always been fascinated by how snowflakes are symmetrical. I understand how water freezes into crystals, but why would one appendage of a snowflake look like the other five when there are so many other possible random shapes they could freeze into?

Movement and motion. In order to explain it, it requires a relative frame of reference. But since there is no such thing as an absolute frame of reference, it could never be truly explained. Things moving is the universe. Every force, particle, and system is composed of movement. Without movement, there is nothing.

Existence itself is unexplainable. No amount of theory can get away with it. If existence originated because the non-existential state could not exist forever, then its a bloody miracle that we all are here. Science typically works with miracles albeit after it has all happened.

radkrish
Existence itself is unexplainable. No amount of theory can get away with it. If existence originated because the non-existential state could not exist forever, then its a bloody miracle that we all are here. Science typically works with miracles albeit after it has all happened.

yes contemplating the fact of existence blows my mind...