Cop Shoots, Kills College Student for Speaking Disrespectfully

reply to post by SecTownKid

One day you're going to see"Justice Squads" which will be lone wolf types or groups of organized individuals who go out and shell out Eye for an Eye based Justice themselves, since the Gov/Authorities won't do it.

Just like the rich kid driving drunk killing people being let off, and now this.

It's a matter of time....mark my words.....it's an inevitable outcome when you see whats happening all around...V for Vendatta types on their way.

Natural progression in a chain of events in an ever darkening corrupt society

winofiend
I guess you have to think of it this way.

Every time you engage with a police officer, your life is in danger. How you act, will either save it, or end it.

No point arguing the facts of it being right or wrong, it's just how it is.

Next time you encounter a cop... remember, they will kill you for no reason. Don't give them that reason.

What you describe could amount to cops being like a terrorist. All killer cops should be sent to Gitmo. Or never allowed to work in law enforcement or security in any capacity ever again. Let them work for minimum wage with 20 percent of each weeks salary going towards the victims family for forty years. That is my fair judgement for all killer cops.

When such things occur in the USA and elsewhere then it is up to the President to pursue this and have zero tolerance, after it is the Presidents job to know what is going on with the men and woman under his command and sort it out. That is what leaders should do.

Anyway it is going to happen again and again, you can be sure to here about it on ATS.

reply to post by SecTownKid


Fair enough, OP. I definitely was not implying that a struggle should in any way condone the use of a firearm by this officer in this instance. And I definitely agree with you that even if there was some sort of struggle, a lesser degree of force could have been used to subdue Redus if he was in fact acting out.

The police are using the account of the officer involved in the shooting to explain this incident, which is why it is worth mentioning. The reasoning the government gives us for these shootings deserves to be part of this discussion. That's all I was getting at.

I understand your outrage and you are not alone in your sentiment.

This story reminds me of that college student who was naked, unarmed and tripping on acid somewhere in the southeast about a year ago. Does everyone remember that? He was banging on the campus police department's glass door before a school officer stepped outside and shot him dead.

Tindalos2013
What you describe could amount to cops being like a terrorist.

Well I think what Wino described amounts to the actual reality of things. Just because its heinous, demeaning, and unpleasant, doesn't make it fictional.

You reach for your wallet to show your ID wrong (in the eyes of the cop), you're dead. You mindlessly point your cellphone at a police officer you are disagreeing with? You're dead. If you make a comment that rubs a power tripping psycopath the wrong way, you're dead.

Police officers are incredibly dangerous, and you do not want to engage with them in any fashion if you can avoid it. I will not even speak to them in a check out line in a gas station. You don't even want to give their eyes a reason to look at you.

And maybe I sound a bit paranoid. But I would say its intelligently justified.

reply to post by SecTownKid


Cop cams are the answer!
Cameras should be issued before the badge or gun, if the police are going to hem us in with the lie that they are there for our protection.
Quite simple actually, and cheap when you consider all of the other hundreds of gadgets cops already get issued.
Maybe even gun cams that record 20 or so seconds before the firearm go off and 30 seconds after.
This is not a stretch considering what civilian dash cams do.

Well that sneaky lil' devil!

Forgot to put in for Christmas off early enough; so he figured out a way to get a nice paid vacation.

Everyone knows if ya kill someone you get a nice paid leave!

Merry Christmas, Officer Clever! You got your paid-holiday-off after all!

reply to post by spleenika


In the UK and in my town particular the police are, day to day are seemingly bunny rabbits in relation to mainly the US counterparts as they patrol unarmed or with only taser guns at a pinch. Its when they pack together in large numbers i.e. keeping the peace during protest rallies.. seems to be an increase in over zealous aggression. There seems to be a lingering wild west bravado to it all as we will see yet more reports of these cowboys gunning down people without due cause of dangerous provocation.

reply to post by TheMainEvent


Some time in jail? This was outright murder! He should get life with no parole.

Police should only use deadly force if the suspect is a threat to themselfs or others, they are not judge jury and executioner.

reply to post by SecTownKid


That's one way to drastically cut down on numbers of recorded psychopathic murderers...give them a police uniform and a gun and defend them when they can't resist the urge to slaughter again.

Hey...it keeps the nuthouses and prisons free for the really criminal pot smokers and litter droppers.

Poor kid and his family.

The law, lies or nothing else on Earth would keep this psycho from my wrath if it was my Son he murdererd in cold blood. Put it this way, it would NOT be quick.

I just want to add a thought here, amid all the second guessing and arm chair quarterbacking, I'm really amazed to hear people suggest that even if the account of the Campus Cop is 100% accurate, he was 100% wrong.

Well, No. He wasn't. He was 100% justified most likely, and he'll probably regret what he did there for the rest of his life, despite that. In fact, being found a good shooting may well make his mental issues over it even harder to deal with. That would make an interesting sidebar to follow.

Folks are talking wild hypotheticals that have no relation whatsoever here. This kid fought the cop, TOOK HIS WEAPON, started to beat him with it, then, in a moment where they were disengaged....came back to attack the cop AGAIN. Then, he was put down hard ....and He's damn lucky he lived long enough to actually attempt a SECOND attack. I'll flat out say the cops I know wouldn't have given the kid the second try. As soon as he took control of a weapon, he'd have determined his own outcome and it wouldn't have differed from what happened here, just sooner.

Cops are NOT paid to fight. Period. Cops are paid to WIN. By any means, every time, without exception. If they fail in that, the exception will include a very emotional rendition of TAPS or Amazing Grace and one hell of a parade of fellow Officers to commemorate the failure. It's often a fatal one.

It seems relying on the "tender mercies" of criminals isn't a reliable way to live long. Who knew? lol... Anyway, fight the cops...and you ARE going to the Hospital. Add a weapon to it...and you're going to the morgue. The kid should NEVER have fought the cop for the Baton...and would still be alive if he'd just stopped fighting at that point.

No.. He had to attack yet again....if the reports are accurate....and the rabid behavior cost him his life. Sounds like a self-decided outcome. 100%.

I'm also thinking the shot placement as it's described (terrible scene, I can only imagine) should show for both sides of the civil court action (Plaintiff's side as well) just what happened here. He kept firing as the kid fell. That seems clear by the hit locations. That should tell the tale in forensic detail that no report can fudge or lie about.

reply to post by eNaR


Resistance or not a policeman should only shoot if that resistance is a danger to himself or others. Ie the kid was holding a weapon.

crazyewok
reply to post by eNaR

 

Resistance or not a policeman should only shoot if that resistance is a danger to himself or others. Ie the kid was holding a weapon.

That is probably the very thing the cops in the New Jersey precinct were thinking awhile back when an unarmed suspect IN custody, no less, wrestled the weapon from another officer and opened fire before being taken down himself. There are threads here on that....and he was unarmed, until he wasn't anymore. Lives would have been saved to have shot him as soon as it was clear he was going for a gun and wasn't losing quickly.

This kid already used the cops baton as a weapon after taking it. He comes back in a full attack again? He doesn't need to be armed the second time.....and technically, he doesn't need to be armed the FIRST time if he's charging a cop in a full frontal attack as this sounds like it may have been.

.....I'm also very very interested to hear a toxicology report. That'll come in time tho.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Of course the cop is going to say he was defending himself..what other possible excuse could he have given?

The witness statements are unambiguous aren't they?

"The cop didn't give any warnings, just drew his gun and not only shot the victim once, but kept on shooting him"

That's quite clearly an execution.

I can easily see this was police bullying that got way out of hand.

The cop may have pulled the kid, lording it over him and abusing his authority. The kid probably and naturally objected to the cop acting out his idea of me boss - you dog, kiss my boots fido...told the cop what a tosser he was and where to go, at that point the cop pulls his baton (stick basically) pokes it into kids face, punching him with the end of it, kid grabs the stick and yanks it away from the cop...struggle ensues, kid shows the cop that even dogs can bite back hard when teased...cop out of his depth decides he's about to get a royal arse kicking and decides to blow the kid away and claim self defense.

Should never have happened, even if the kid did take a baton being poked into his face...if the cop really felt he had to shoot an effectively unarmed man, should have shot him in the legs or areas that would not result in death...but then if he had, the kid would have been able to speak up and defend himself and that won't do.

The cop was in the wrong wrabbit, and deserves to be punished for it.

spleenika
I was very young when my parents taught me "No matter how wrong, rude, or rough a police officer is, always address them respectfully and as Sir, don't argue with them, and do whatever they say".

I couldnt disagree with your parents more.

Where are their damn principles? I will not be doing whatever ANYONE says without good reason. and without good reason I will certainly be arguing mycase with ANY officer.

Not only that but to address them as sir? an unnecessary title that means nothing. I will not be doing that.

I luckily have not had much interaction with the police but if I did and they were wrong or rude towards me they are going to get an ear full.

And I consider myself to be law abiding so if an officer treated that ear full as a crime and tried to arrest me he would be met with resistance. I would fight off an officer the same way I would fight off a thief or any attacker. Luckily the police here dont carry guns. I've always said the second you come into contact with the police to put your phone on voice record.

I understand it may end up in a legal battle in court but I have principles to follow that no hand written law will ever change.

I will call the police when and if I feel I need them. until then they should leave me alone. I certainly don't expect to see a rude officer on a power trip trying to arrest me or someone else but petty or no good reasons.

Far too many police officers are power mad thugs who can invent a crime to arrest you for if you argue with them.

I will argue and resist if I have to and deal with the legal ramifications later. I will have no regrets and a prison sentence will not change my opinion on this matter.

stand up for your self it does not make you a bad person.

reply to post by MysterX

"The cop didn't give any warnings, just drew his gun and not only shot the victim once, but kept on shooting him"

That's quite clearly an execution.

If that's what really happened, then yeah.... That isn't a cop but a homocidal maniac and he'll end up in a Texas prison, probably for the better part of his natural life. Texas is absolutely not soft on things and they have a special and VERY DEEP place for bad cops. If his account is wrong, as I said, the forensics on this should show it VERY clear.

The kid was supposedly fighting in what is described as a hard struggle the cop outright lost on the baton issue ...so, wouldn't it make sense the kid should be overflowing with adrenaline and likely with various bruises and marks from that first fight. If those DO NOT exist? We know there is a HUGE problem..and that cop has a big big issue.

If forensics backs the cops version? Well.... That's why I won't just assume in EVERY case of a question between a Cop and a citizen that the cop MUST, because he's a cop, be wrong. Many here do assume that in case after case and with little regard to reported events.

This will sort itself out and nothing is lost in waiting to see how that goes or giving some benefit of the doubt ...since it IS so clear that physical evidence should tell the tale. Woe be the cop if his report is all B.S. and not supported.

Wrabbit2000

That is probably the very thing the cops in the New Jersey precinct were thinking awhile back when an unarmed suspect IN custody, no less, wrestled the weapon from another officer and opened fire before being taken down himself. There are threads here on that....and he was unarmed, until he wasn't anymore. Lives would have been saved to have shot him as soon as it was clear he was going for a gun and wasn't losing quickly.

I would class that as a danger to the police. You dont have to have a weapon to be a danger I recognise that.
Espcicaly if a suspect is off there heads on some substance.

reply to post by SecTownKid


People say they want a police state but complain when they see what its like living in one.
Vote libertarian or shaddap.

reply to post by crazyewok


Very wise observation my furry little friend, especially on that last part for behavior everyone who knew the guy seems to agree was totally out of character, for even a start to it...let alone how far it apparently went.

Something isn't sounding right ...I'm just thinking assumptions might be proven wrong all around here with a little time for some basics to be established. We'll see.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by MysterX

 

"The cop didn't give any warnings, just drew his gun and not only shot the victim once, but kept on shooting him"

That's quite clearly an execution.

If that's what really happened, then yeah.... That isn't a cop but a homocidal maniac and he'll end up in a Texas prison, probably for the better part of his natural life. Texas is absolutely not soft on things and they have a special and VERY DEEP place for bad cops. If his account is wrong, as I said, the forensics on this should show it VERY clear.

The kid was supposedly fighting in what is described as a hard struggle the cop outright lost on the baton issue ...so, wouldn't it make sense the kid should be overflowing with adrenaline and likely with various bruises and marks from that first fight. If those DO NOT exist? We know there is a HUGE problem..and that cop has a big big issue.

If forensics backs the cops version? Well.... That's why I won't just assume in EVERY case of a question between a Cop and a citizen that the cop MUST, because he's a cop, be wrong. Many here do assume that in case after case and with little regard to reported events.

This will sort itself out and nothing is lost in waiting to see how that goes or giving some benefit of the doubt ...since it IS so clear that physical evidence should tell the tale. Woe be the cop if his report is all B.S. and not supported.

edit on 17-12-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Oh no..i certainly do not think that the majority of cops are bad people...not in the least actually, i support the police and am grateful (for the most part) for what they do and what they put themsleves through in order to help keep society ticking over on an even keel.

But there are eyewitnesses in this case and that ought to count for something. As far as bruises on the victim, it may sound surprising, but there may not be many if any on him if it were simpy a case of the cop poking him in the face with it and the stick being snatched out of the cops hands.

Unless the cop was giving the victim an actual beating with it, there'd be little physical evidence in the form of bruises.

The bottom line for me is a trained, armed police constable shot an unarmed man repeatedly to death, and not in non-life threatening areas of the body and by the sounds of it (from witness statements given in the thread) without warning.

To me, that is murder.

That as you say, is the actions of a maniac.

But yeah, you're right we ought to wait until an investigation is made before passing judgement..assuming there'll be an open and honest investigation of course.

reply to post by MysterX

That as you say, is the actions of a maniac.

But yeah, you're right we ought to wait until an investigation is made before passing judgement..assuming there'll be an open and honest investigation of course.

I'll tell ya what... I'm no ideologue and most know that about me. I'll change positions and radically at times, if the facts demand it. If this turns out to be as some are taking it to have happened for the worst case? I certainly won't slink off and pretend it didn't come out that way. I'll very much stand right next to the people calling for merciless prosecution here. Time will tell..and hopefully not a real long period of it.

* If I'm not mistaken..and someone correct me if I am ... Bad cops in Texas CAN come under the Jusrisdiction of the Department of Public Safety, which includes the Texas Rangers. After reading their full report on the Waco disaster....nothing would make me happier than to hear they'd been asked in to have a look here. "A look" from those guys counts more to me than a full investigation by some departments.