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Intelligent Design is a self evident truth

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posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 12:01 PM
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tsingtao
science is fumbling around with the mechanics of this reality.
believers have a solid faith. how it works is not a big concern. why should we? you find out the HOW and we will figure out the WHY.

I don't really see christians trying to figure out either.




posted on Apr, 3 2014 @ 07:54 PM
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reply to post by ReturnofTheSonOfNothing
 





Are there gaps in our knowledge? Yep. Could there be all sorts of unexpected phenomena and surprises out there which throw physics on it's head? Absolutely.



Yeah, like fact that physicists do not know what makes up 95% of the universe.

They call it Dark Energy, and Dark Matter.



posted on Apr, 4 2014 @ 06:13 PM
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GetHyped
reply to post by tsingtao
 


Gnosticism/agnosticism is about knowing, theism/atheism is about believing.

I don't believe that there is a 3 headed pink elephant sitting just outside of the observable universe but I cannot know that this isn't the case because it conveniently resides in a location that is outside the realm of objective observation.

Just like I don't believe that your god happens to not only exist but be the only one out of all the thousands of other gods to be real but I cannot know because he conveniently keeps himself outside the realm of objective observation.
edit on 3-4-2014 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)


You're acting as if knowing and believing are two completely different things. They're not. I'll just let this girl explain it all:




posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by vasaga
 


They are different. Go look up each term in a dictionary. I've even clearly illustrated the difference. Conflate them all you want but you're still wrong.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 04:32 AM
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daskakik

tsingtao
science is fumbling around with the mechanics of this reality.
believers have a solid faith. how it works is not a big concern. why should we? you find out the HOW and we will figure out the WHY.

I don't really see christians trying to figure out either.


not believers job to figure out how.

not that we are not up to it, tho. would you even accept anything christians come up with?

you people just stick to what you are supposed to do.

like find the friggin plane!!!



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 04:41 AM
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iRoyalty
Why does it have to mean God? What if an advanced, space faring species wanted to do an experiment to see how life can form from bio-material constructed in a lab? I only have theories on this, obviously nothing solid, but I could say the same for God couldn't I?

And where did the space faring species come from? Likewise where did God come from ? OR....maybe....life is merely the natural result of a developing universe.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 04:44 AM
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GetHyped
reply to post by tsingtao
 


Gnosticism/agnosticism is about knowing, theism/atheism is about believing.

I don't believe that there is a 3 headed pink elephant sitting just outside of the observable universe but I cannot know that this isn't the case because it conveniently resides in a location that is outside the realm of objective observation.

Just like I don't believe that your god happens to not only exist but be the only one out of all the thousands of other gods to be real but I cannot know because he conveniently keeps himself outside the realm of objective observation.
edit on 3-4-2014 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)


how convenient.

no pinkies and no gods. your world must be dark and dull.

"believe in me" once seemed a good line."

like i've said before, it's friggin GOD!!

u can't find your way to findlay IL, without a map but you know stuff about God and the whole universe??!!!

God is so far beyond us, it's not funny.










posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 04:48 AM
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yorkshirelad

iRoyalty
Why does it have to mean God? What if an advanced, space faring species wanted to do an experiment to see how life can form from bio-material constructed in a lab? I only have theories on this, obviously nothing solid, but I could say the same for God couldn't I?

And where did the space faring species come from? Likewise where did God come from ? OR....maybe....life is merely the natural result of a developing universe.



until we talk to these buttholes, we don't know if they believe in God or not.

it seems like everyone assumes they are atheists.

what if they had their own Jesus?



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 07:01 AM
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reply to post by tsingtao
 


Faith, that is to say a belief in something which is not based on evidence, something which can not be scientifically tested or demonstrated is indistinguishable from gullibility.



posted on Apr, 5 2014 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by tsingtao
 


I don't know why you seem to think either camp has an assignment.

I was just pointing out that you are not working on the why any more than the how. Your answer to both is whatever someone wrote thousands of years ago.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


"Yes but I'm only pointing out that scientists are claiming evidence for things that are not in evidence. For example Dawkins says the evidence is for Evolution by Natural Selection via Mutation. He is claiming that the evidence for evolution per se is evidence for the whole package. The evidence only shows that evolution happens. Sheldrake points out that genes only make proteins. That is all they do and scientists are claiming a lot more from them than has been shown to be the case - they are said to be the driving force behind evolution but genes don't explain growth and form. See also The Missing Heritability problem "


Oh, yes they do, my friend.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Heritable genetic traits are largely a function of natural selection. And natural selection is the impetus that causes the genetic profile of an organism to change i.e. mutate. "Form follows function" is a major tenet of biological systems.

A good example is eye color. Everyone had brown eyes until about 10,000 years ago. But migration north, where sunlight was limited, caused a mutation to blue eyes which could absorb more wavelengths of light. The same is true of skin color. Skin turned lighter so that more wavelengths could be absorbed to synthesize Vitamin D, which humans do not make themselves.

So, form follows function. And function is regulated by genes. Genes mutate in response to environmental stress or other factors. But the gene drives the process by adaptive mutation. Just like the motherboard in a computer drives a whole load of functions, the genetic structure and composition of genes drives the form or morphology of an organism. When the motherboard wants or needs a new function, it must change. When the organism requires an addition or subtraction of a function, it too must change.

None of this requires an outside intelligence to accomplish the task. It's already built into a system of self assembly which requires no outside intervention.







edit on 15-4-2014 by Phantom423 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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tsingtao

yorkshirelad

iRoyalty
Why does it have to mean God? What if an advanced, space faring species wanted to do an experiment to see how life can form from bio-material constructed in a lab? I only have theories on this, obviously nothing solid, but I could say the same for God couldn't I?

And where did the space faring species come from? Likewise where did God come from ? OR....maybe....life is merely the natural result of a developing universe.



until we talk to these buttholes, we don't know if they believe in God or not.

it seems like everyone assumes they are atheists.

what if they had their own Jesus?



I'd be willing to bet that every intelligent species that tries to understand its surrounding better will end up "having their own Jesus". Religion is an easy answer to trying to understand the universe around you and until better and more efficient methods for learning about the universe are developed and implemented, religion works as that method. Heck some space faring civilizations may even hold onto these archaic beliefs as they transition into space, who knows? But that doesn't mean any of it is correct.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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Phantom423
reply to post by EnPassant
 


"Yes but I'm only pointing out that scientists are claiming evidence for things that are not in evidence. For example Dawkins says the evidence is for Evolution by Natural Selection via Mutation. He is claiming that the evidence for evolution per se is evidence for the whole package. The evidence only shows that evolution happens. Sheldrake points out that genes only make proteins. That is all they do and scientists are claiming a lot more from them than has been shown to be the case - they are said to be the driving force behind evolution but genes don't explain growth and form. See also The Missing Heritability problem "


Oh, yes they do, my friend.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Heritable genetic traits are largely a function of natural selection. And natural selection is the impetus that causes the genetic profile of an organism to change i.e. mutate. "Form follows function" is a major tenet of biological systems.

A good example is eye color. Everyone had brown eyes until about 10,000 years ago. But migration north, where sunlight was limited, caused a mutation to blue eyes which could absorb more wavelengths of light. The same is true of skin color. Skin turned lighter so that more wavelengths could be absorbed to synthesize Vitamin D, which humans do not make themselves.

So, form follows function. And function is regulated by genes. Genes mutate in response to environmental stress or other factors. But the gene drives the process by adaptive mutation. Just like the motherboard in a computer drives a whole load of functions, the genetic structure and composition of genes drives the form or morphology of an organism. When the motherboard wants or needs a new function, it must change. When the organism requires an addition or subtraction of a function, it too must change.

None of this requires an outside intelligence to accomplish the task. It's already built into a system of self assembly which requires no outside intervention.

edit on 15-4-2014 by Phantom423 because: (no reason given)


Eye colour is not form. It is caused by a protein. Form is concerned with structure and substructures and the integration thereof. The link you provided does not show that genes determine form.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


Sorry, you're wrong. Eye color is a pigment/protein complex. It is a molecular STRUCTURE. Even if it was constructed entirely of protein, it wouldn't matter because proteins form structure too - your skin, your hair, your eyes, soft tissues and organs. And it is genetically regulated.

And DNA doesn't "make" protein. DNA carries the code for amino acids. It is mRNA which actually transfers the amino acids to their targeted cells where the protein is constructed. That's what forms structure.

I was going to upload a diagram, but not sure how to paste in the jpg. Will find out and post it later.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 06:33 PM
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This is the basic light-absorbing molecule.




And this is the pigment/protein complex, the STRUCTURE, the FORM that enables sight.





This is the flowchart of what flows from DNA - an enzyme unzips the double stranded DNA, the code REGULATES or determines which amino acids will be synthesized. mRNA then transports the amino acids into the target cell to complete the STRUCTURE, or FORM, whatever you want to call it.


edit on 15-4-2014 by Phantom423 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-4-2014 by Phantom423 because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-4-2014 by Phantom423 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 03:20 AM
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reply to post by Phantom423
 


This is not the level of form that the argument hinges on. It hinges on macroscopic inherited characteristics, such as bone structure etc; forms that are above the cellular level, such as likeness to parents etc.



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 03:42 AM
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Krazysh0t

tsingtao

yorkshirelad

iRoyalty
Why does it have to mean God? What if an advanced, space faring species wanted to do an experiment to see how life can form from bio-material constructed in a lab? I only have theories on this, obviously nothing solid, but I could say the same for God couldn't I?

And where did the space faring species come from? Likewise where did God come from ? OR....maybe....life is merely the natural result of a developing universe.



until we talk to these buttholes, we don't know if they believe in God or not.

it seems like everyone assumes they are atheists.

what if they had their own Jesus?



I'd be willing to bet that every intelligent species that tries to understand its surrounding better will end up "having their own Jesus". Religion is an easy answer to trying to understand the universe around you and until better and more efficient methods for learning about the universe are developed and implemented, religion works as that method. Heck some space faring civilizations may even hold onto these archaic beliefs as they transition into space, who knows? But that doesn't mean any of it is correct.


"archaic beliefs"?
i would love to hear you tell a space faring, intelligent, alien species that their god doesn't exist, because some planet locked humans say so.


we would have to understand each other first, tho.




posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by EnPassant
 


That's ridiculous. A bone, a foot, whatever has a fundamental structure that is defined by it's inherent genetic code. A foot looks like a foot because every part of the foot has a genetic component that organized that foot i.e. bone, bone marrow, tendons, muscle, toenails. Evolution organized it as a foot because the organism needed mobility.

You'll have to go a long way to explain how the basic cellular machinery of life at the micro level has nothing to do with the macro level.

And that's the problem with your argument - you make no connection between micro and the macro - as though it didn't exist.

Even your "intelligent designer" would be able to figure that one out!



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 07:17 AM
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"The point of citing all these problems? Evolution doesn’t "design" anything, says anthropologist Matt Cartmill of Boston University, a discussant on the panel. It works slowly on the genes and traits it has at hand, to jerry-rig animals’ and humans body plans to changing habitats and demands. “Evolution doesn’t act to yield perfection," he says. "It acts to yield function.”


news.sciencemag.org...
edit on 16-4-2014 by Phantom423 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 16 2014 @ 07:26 AM
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tsingtao

Krazysh0t

tsingtao

yorkshirelad

iRoyalty
Why does it have to mean God? What if an advanced, space faring species wanted to do an experiment to see how life can form from bio-material constructed in a lab? I only have theories on this, obviously nothing solid, but I could say the same for God couldn't I?

And where did the space faring species come from? Likewise where did God come from ? OR....maybe....life is merely the natural result of a developing universe.



until we talk to these buttholes, we don't know if they believe in God or not.

it seems like everyone assumes they are atheists.

what if they had their own Jesus?



I'd be willing to bet that every intelligent species that tries to understand its surrounding better will end up "having their own Jesus". Religion is an easy answer to trying to understand the universe around you and until better and more efficient methods for learning about the universe are developed and implemented, religion works as that method. Heck some space faring civilizations may even hold onto these archaic beliefs as they transition into space, who knows? But that doesn't mean any of it is correct.


"archaic beliefs"?
i would love to hear you tell a space faring, intelligent, alien species that their god doesn't exist, because some planet locked humans say so.


we would have to understand each other first, tho.



Well unless they have evidence of said god, then their belief is just as fallacious as the ones on Earth. I'm not sure why it is always assumed that a space faring race has to be intellectually superior in all ways to us. I find it entirely possible that another intelligent, albeit space faring, race could have flawed reasonings just like our race will when we finally breach the space barrier.

If they do have evidence then it is a different story. But in that case, I'd be willing to bet that whatever god they are aware of would be nothing like what we conceptualize about it on this planet (in other words all of our religions are probably wrong).



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