Expanded Medicaid’s fine print holds surprise: ‘payback’ from estate after death

charles1952
reply to post by MysterX

 

At least in the US, don't forget about the Gift Tax. And if you give it to your kids, here's hoping they don't just sell it all and leave you homeless and penniless.

All you are required to do is show a bill of sale.

A bill of sale is not required to show the amount of the sale.

An appropriate bill of sale under these circumstances would be, "Sold for $1.00 and other considerations."

That is all it must entail to be a legal sale, and not a gift. This is often done with auto sales, but can be done with other purchases among private parties, hence, no gift tax. YMMV in some states, but, Obamacare also levied new taxes on home sales, 3.5%, IIRC.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Missouri also allows your property and assets to be held in Family trust for those named. *IF* it's that way, the court stamps it and off you go. What is in trust is beyond the scope of probate or other direct process to take.

Unfortunately, my recent experience with Missouri Probate court was learning that for how it should have happened. Let's just say the directions for number of signatures and manner of witness really matters ...and there is no will, let alone a trust, if that part is messed up in any way.

Yeah, see we're looking into this on the Kansas side because our family land is held in a trust and has been since my grandparents' day. It now has relevance because of Obamacare. My mom has a pre-existing and will need some kind of insurance for a year or two until Medicare takes over. Given that her pre-existing was the big "C," going without is not really a comfortable option.

So all this depends on how the trust is viewed.

reply to post by xuenchen


Honestly, if you have assets, you should not need the government to pay your way. Most people understand that if you need money, you sell things until you have nothing left. Then, and only then, should you be able to get government assistance.

Medicaid is not Medicare. Medicaid is for the truly destitute, poor, and disabled, that do not meet Medicare requirements.

Medicaid is medical care for people that have absolutely NO way to pay for their medical care.

If you are sitting on a 250k home, have cars, jewelry, and other things, I would be downright inflamed if you qualified for Medicaid. It is just not how it is meant to be used.

Take for example, and I keep referring back to this story, the young man from Aurora, Colorado, who was shot and paralyzed by the Holmes theater shooting.

Much was made about how he could never work again, was married, had kids, and his family was dependent upon him. He did not have insurance. Donations came flooding in to help him pay for his medical bills.

Two days later, another article came out, and the article stated that he was immediately signed up for State Medicaid assistance, and his bills would be covered. No one, but me, discussed this article, nor the fact that any medical emergency is automatically qualified for Medicaid coverage.

Now, lets assume he received 200k in donations. Do you think it is fair for the citizens of Colorado to foot all of his medical bills while he gets to keep that money?

If so, is that any different than the woman with two multi-million dollar homes, that won millions in the lottery, but was on food stamps, and refused to get off of food stamps? Eventually, the government did make her pay back all of her food stamp receipts, and cancelled her food stamp benefits.

The two stories are not dissimilar in that, Medicaid, like food stamps, are for people who are truly in need, not people who have assets they could sell, but would rather keep them selfishly, and put the responsibilty of their lives on others.

There comes a point where if you have a ring and need medicine, you sell the ring. If you have no rings left, and need medicine, let me buy it for you.

Until then, sod off. You are not needy, you are greedy.

Again I will re-emphasize the main point.

This is about notification.

Most people being "qualified" for Medicaid because of the ObamaCare provision of a higher income level being 133% of poverty.

Nothing in the law says anything about means testing for assets (that i know of).

And I bet there's absolutely nothing mentioned about this on the exchange websites.

I can't find any at least (mostly because the pages hang).

Can somebody get a screenshot of the Medicaid parts on the websites that tell about the spend down requirements ?? Any website will do - Federal or any State.

If it ain't there, then it's obvious people may have been steered wrong at this late date.

If people who thought Medicaid was covering them and later find out it's a no-go, now what?

This alone could cause more people to be "not insured" at any given critical time.

xuenchen
Again I will re-emphasize the main point.

This is about notification.

Most people being "qualified" for Medicaid because of the ObamaCare provision of a higher income level being 133% of poverty.

Nothing in the law says anything about means testing for assets (that i know of).

And I bet there's absolutely nothing mentioned about this on the exchange websites.

I can't find any at least (mostly because the pages hang).

Can somebody get a screenshot of the Medicaid parts on the websites that tell about the spend down requirements ?? Any website will do - Federal or any State.

If it ain't there, then it's obvious people may have been steered wrong at this late date.

If people who thought Medicaid was covering them and later find out it's a no-go, now what?

This alone could cause more people to be "not insured" at any given critical time.

Again, I will reiterate, personal responsibility. A very simple search, "Medicaid who qualifies", turned up this link:

www.medicaid.gov...

Enclosed in this link is everything you are discussing.

Glossary
Spousal Impoverishment

Treatment of Trusts

Transfers of Assets for Less Than Fair Market Value

Estate Recovery: State Medicaid programs must
recover from a Medicaid enrollee's estate the cost of certain benefits paid on behalf of the enrollee,
including nursing facility services, home and
community-based services, and related hospital and prescription drug services. State Medicaid programs may recover for other Medicaid benefits, except for Medicare cost-sharing benefits paid on behalf of Medicare Savings Program beneficiaries.

Third Party Liability: Third Party Liability (TPL) refers to third parties who have a legal obligation to pay for part or all of the cost of medical services provided to a Medicaid beneficiary.

It is all right there on the main page, all right there for those who wish to educate themselves, and each state sets their own rules, following Federal Guidelines.

When you apply, read the fine print.

As I stated, it is a lack of education on the subject.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, is hidden here, nor obfuscated in any way. Just because some peope do not know, does not mean all people do not know.

This is not a part of Obamacare, aside from the expanded eligibility. Other than that, this has been in place in most states, if not all, for a very long time.

I'm sorry, but this is a huge nothingburger. It is up to each individual to read what they are signing up for, and to take personal responsibility for their actions. Nothing has been hidden from view.

ETA: As for there being nothing in the law, there doesn't have to be. Medicaid is handled on a state by state basis, and that page I linked above states:

Some states have additional state only
programs to provide medical assistance for certain
low-income people who do not qualify for Medicaid.
No federal funds are provided for state only programs.

The Federal Government truly (according to the 10th ammendment) has no right interfering in State's rights. Some states , in fact, have outlawed the application of Obamacare at all. I have made a post about this. The citizens of those states are not required to sign up for it, nor, can they be fined.

Lack. Of. Education.

If they fail to educate themselves, and sign up, or pay the fine, who is to blame? Themselves, for lack of education, or the Federal Government for accepting payment/signup?

The Federal Law does not address anything except the expanded coverage eligibility, because that is all that applies.

So, those bills incurred before a person dies should automatically be negated?
Of course not, the estate is SUPPOSED to pay out those final bills, be it medical or otherwise.

This is nothing new, I get disability in Ohio and have Medicaid. Even if I can get off of it in the future, the terms were already signed. Anything I have goes to the state when I die.

the best thing for those 55+ is to mortgage their property to the hilt so that the forced Medicaid Health policy will be only one of the Liens against the property


another hint... if there is no mortgage on the house... have your heirs do specific work on the house (legitimate stuff) that you don;t pay for..
then the providers of the work can apply a Mechanic' s Lien against the parent (owners) of the property and hopefully be first-in-line to be 'made whole' on an outstanding debt owed using the property as collateral...
the State Medicaid will then need to settle for whats' left over after your lien is satisified

....besides the any individual State Medicaid expenses will likely not get paid anyhow as the Federal Reserve has the mortgage bonds on Trillion$ in USA housing mortgages in their own balance sheet and will probably have a superior standing as far as recouping money from the property goes.


these smart asses in the 'progressive' administration are just warmed over revolutionaries from back in the cultural-revolution era of the late '60s-70s...
the wanna-be weathermen & weather underground socialists & reactionaries... back then i told smaller groups that were not affiliated with those radical scum that the way to overthrow the establishment & pigs was to choke them to death will legal maneuvers & tactics.... they are trying to smother the masses with their version of paralysis but as you see with the action i suggest they can be neutralized at the starting gate


there's also recalling or impeaching Ms PeeLousy and the WH occupy guy Homo-Bama for unleashing this financial terrorism on a gullible public
or just plain getting rid of (repeal) the destructive ACA (0bamacare) Law in 2014






Libertygal.... reply


the only thing i find wrong in your way of thinking is that;

there are now a whole group of individuals who would never have applied for Medicaid or health insurance until the obamacare law made it mandatory for every person to have a wallet-emptying medical policy

they were perfectly content on just living out their days until disease or accident took-them-out
but the socialist jerks in the WH felt it their duty to deprive those people of just letting life go by and make them pay dearly for health insurance they never had reckoned on buying


eating-drinking-smoking their way to a Valhalla paradise in their own refuge from the world was all they wanted===

Now they have unwanted interference from the central-planners in DC...more headaches, etc
where is the Life-liberty-pursuit of happiness gone... oh yeah that constitution is just a scrap of paper ---GWB

i cant say what BHO says about it cause he's only getting his strings pulled by Soros, & the other globalist elite

April 6, 2016

Governor Rick Scott of Florida strolls into a Gainsville Starbucks today. A woman curses him out because she can't get Free Medicaid.

Story: townhall.com...

What this "lady" doesn't realize is that her income qualifies her for REAL health insurance that costs next to nothing, and has an ultra-low deductible. The official Obamacare name for it is a "Silver Plan, with Cost-Sharing-Reduction".