The Not So Troubled Common Christian

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posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


And yet I can not help but Pray for them

The way they twist the meanings to fit their agenda is not so funny as tragic




posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:32 AM
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semperfortis
reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


You can throw them all around all you like

All that matters is that Jesus came to change it all and he said

John 14:6
“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

That is the only one that matters


They all matter. Did God not say very early in the story that man does not live by bread alone, but by EVERY word that proceeds out of the mouth of God? At least, that's the gist of it. However, I am saying that ALL come to the Father, through Jesus, in this life or in the life to come. God, unlike His followers, never said death is the cutoff point for salvation, did He?



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:37 AM
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Well I must say, this is exactly the reason I don't usually ever take part in these types of threads.

    One side says "You're going to hell if you don't believe X."
    The other side says "This religion stuff is based on fantasy."

We're humans, none of us have (all) the answers and many seem to believe they know for absolute certainty more than they do.

Where's that head banging emoticon when you really need it?



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


OOOPPPSSS

"The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matthew 13:41-43).

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:31-46)?

Sorry but it is clear



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:40 AM
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I don't fault people

It is also clearly said that those who do not believe will not be able to see

Sad

But True



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:41 AM
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semperfortis
reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


After reading much of the original Greek and Aramaic my understanding is Hell is simply "Without God"

As God entails only good and holy, Hell is the opposite


Exactly. Hell is being without God.

I don't believe Hell is eternal either. I believe the soul can die if it is separated from the Source (God) for long enough (in a manner of speaking).

God be with you.



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:46 AM
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Clearly im being ignored... So i will take my leave...

Though i will leave this thought

If there is a hell... There are more Christians living there then anyone else...

And very few of them living in "heaven"... If any

Peace




posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 02:45 AM
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semperfortis
I said he was going somewhere he does not even believe in and it upset him???? LMAO

Mostly agree with Santa to some degree, person put you on the spot I guess.

It's hard to have an opinion on, since none of us were there. There could have been parts of this conversation or a history that we're not seeing?

Speaking only for myself though, I have plenty of friends that probably think I'm going to hell I guess. It confuses me sometimes that they like me, and don't particularly do anything about it. Sometimes my mind tries to rationalize this by thinking ... oh they probably don't believe that part but mostly I just don't bother thinking about it.

I'm very curious about people's beliefs but I never ask that type of question. My questions are more genuine curiousness. It seems a dangerous question to ask, so yes maybe your friend over reacts. But ...

And don't mean to offend you Semper, but something has jumped out at me:


Perhaps that is why atheists attack Christianity at ever opportunity.. We have what they can never have.. A quiet soul.. A comfortable peace.. A warm blanket of faith



So maybe, just maybe, the insecurity of the non-believer is becoming more and more apparent?

As I am a true believer, I can only pray for their salvation

Look I've had plenty of persons give me a hard time, or ignore me because they are religious and assume I'm a terrible heathen of a person.

One time when I was on a film set within a church the people who owned the church asked if I needed to be there, and if I could be told to leave. Is something about tattoos and leather jackets that put them the wrong way I suppose (if I'd known we were shooting in a church later that afternoon I might have covered up just because). Luckily my employer backed me up. I've had a lot of negative interactions with religious persons though.

Sorry for the rambles, but the point I'm making is that none of this has made me think in sweeping lines about religious people in general. I can never, for example, imagine myself saying something like ...

And this is why Christians attack gay people all the time, because they're upset about not being able to have fun and enjoy life and are scared of death. Gay people have what Christians will never have, a good time!

There is so much wrong with that sentence I need to sand paper hands and bleach eye balls after writing, but the overall point is there I think. Guess all am saying is that if you have these thoughts and feelings about Atheists on a regular basis then perhaps they maybe come to the surface even if you don't intend it?

Just seems perhaps like you almost enjoy that person's discomfort from what you've written? I mean I can only assume they weren't that close a friend or you must be quite upset at them? When I was a Roman Catholic I actually found the thought of so many people going to hell physically distressing some evenings!

Perhaps it's just how you've written it? It's a query you have to ask yourself more than explain to me. Maybe you're just fine with how you think of and communicate with Atheists, or maybe you've just come across a certain way that doesn't accurately represent you. I just feel from what you've written ... sure I can see where a person might be offended over time.

I'd be pretty offended if your primary thoughts about me were similar to what you've written in your OP.

Hope it helps.

P.S I have a horrible feeling this thread will light up like a Christmas tree, soooo you may perhaps borrow my flame proof fort and suit if you wish. It is over next to my rolfcopter and ttyl tank.
edit on 16-12-2013 by Pinke because: P.S ...



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 03:16 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


We all see things different but the Bible I read say Christ died for the church. 'The church has appointed....' etc etc etc. Therefore, the church is a place where you meet, under authority of called men and that's where you work out from. Your a lone ranger, unbridled, saved but a lone ranger unprotected and thither rebellious or hurt and scared. You'll say no i'm not. I'm telling you 2014 will prove it.

Copy this post. Print it out and pin it to your wall for next year. 2014 will prove it.



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 04:03 AM
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Akragon
Clearly im being ignored... So i will take my leave...

Though i will leave this thought

If there is a hell... There are more Christians living there then anyone else...

And very few of them living in "heaven"... If any

Peace



Don't take your leave Ak. I am of Christian beliefs but not to any extreme. I and my partner (non believer) and our children live a simple life. I am a believer thanks to my upbrininging but that doesn't stop me wishing vengence against bullies, crims, violent people and those that threaten my family. I hope they burn in a place. But then I just get on with our life. No church or weekly meetings for me. Just a sense if I get on doing the right thing everything will be okay.

Not right, as frequently my children are attacked, cop abuse etc. They have no idea about christianity (will let them decide), They have no idea about that bad place (hell) whatever it is. They grow to understand what is right against wrong.

It didn't take christianity to mould them. Simply what is right and just. They suffer for it but wouldn't wish any form of suffering or hell againt a perpetrator. Anyway they have had some horrible threats and beatings at school. (broken bones). (police) (hospital)

If anything I am guilty for their injuries because of my beliefs. Right -v- wrong. (Walk away). In one instance my daughter copped a punch to the back of the head for "Walking away".

Circumstances are that maybe I should teach them to fight back. The good lord is not protecting them.

This is a real conflict in my personal beliefs. My hell.



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I am troubled by the caliber of character many Christians demonstrate through their handling and interpretation of the Bible. People sometimes ask me why I often answer a question with a question. I tell them the more assumptions I can pull out of a person, the more they unwittingly reveal to me about themselves. So I let them make a load of assumptions, determine the sort of person they are, and either politely excuse myself or consent to a mutually informative discussion regarding what have you.

Regarding the Bible, this method often reveals that people are more in it for themselves than for others. When they interpret, they take it to mean what they want it to mean, or what gives them more confidence in themselves and what they believed before they ever read it. Oftentimes, they take contradictory verses and favor the ones that support their preconceptions rather than allowing the Bible to challenge their viewpoint, usually because they didn't accept Jesus as a means of flipping their worldview, but as a means of assuaging and justifying it.

That sort of character troubles me greatly, because these are the people teaching and molding the future of our nation, instructing our children and voting on our legislation and representatives, influencing our society and sharing products and services with us. These are people who admire, and therefore emulate, a cluster of ideals which strike me as potentially hazardous to the emotional well being and spiritual integrity of a species who, contrary to popular claims, have not yet escaped their animal roots and the inherent urges and instincts therein. As such, religiosity makes just as potent a beating stick and tripwire as it does a healing salve and guidepost. Which do you think we are more likely to lean towards? Look at history, and answer honestly.
edit on 16-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 09:41 AM
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semperfortis
reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


After reading much of the original Greek and Aramaic my understanding is Hell is simply "Without God"

As God entails only good and holy, Hell is the opposite


You mean devoid of spiritual light from source/home/god?

From my point of view many people are already suffering in earth and earth is not very well balanced place. It is like the bad neighbourhood that you want to avoid if you can and I had a couple of years where I internally called this place hell. Still do at times. This place have not changed that much even if I have gotten another perspective. Work in progress.
.




posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 09:44 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I think I understand ...

You think it's silly that he's insulted over being condemned to what he'd consider an 'imaginary' place.
If it doesn't exist, then why get upset? Right?

At the same time, I can understand him being insulted because you'd think that he isn't 'good enough' ... for whatever reason. (even though it's not YOU judging, it's God).

I think he's upset, not over the imaginary place, but over being deemed 'not good enough'
for something by a friend.

But, if I understand correctly, HE asked you if he'd be condemned. So it's his own fault for asking. If he didn't want to know (and I"m sure he already knew the answer) then he shouldn't have asked the question.

So i'm still putting that on him. He had to know the answer before he 'asked' the 'question'.
So him being upset with you is out of place. IMHO



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 09:45 AM
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Bassago
reply to post by semperfortis
 


BTW I'm not going to Mordor either.


Why not? I could be really cool going to a simulation of Mordor. Just thought that I would smell it also. Ok. I could be really cool going to a simulation of Mordor if I cannot smell the place.



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by bally001
 


Your partner? Does that mean you're gay? I've always wondered how Christian homosexuals reconcile with that part of their faith...I mean, do they just ignore it? Take interpretive liberties? Then what's the point?



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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semperfortis
reply to post by Akragon
 


I am truly pleased to give you a chuckle.. Few things in life are more rewarding than giving someone laughter

I will pray for you...

You do not have to stay lost


Lol. Akragon being lost. Why do I feel like I am one day gonna see Akragon sitting as a purple cat on gods lap saying wise words and making cat noises in between? Who is a good kitty?
edit on 16-12-2013 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 10:41 AM
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semperfortis
reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


OOOPPPSSS

"The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father" (Matthew 13:41-43).

"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats . . . And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life" (Matthew 25:31-46)?

Sorry but it is clear


OOPS, yourself, it is not clear at all, not in that version. People should state what version they are quoting.

Let me clarify your Matthew 13 quote. The "furnace of fire" must refer to the Lake of Fire. Now, perhaps you have noticed in your Bible that God often refers to Himself as a refining fire or soap - both cleansing agents. The LoF is to burn away the wood, hay, and stubble of the wicked, so that they suffer loss, but are saved as by fire. Then these new righteous will shine also...

Your Matthew 25 quote has one flaw, and that is the time factor. The Greek word so often rendered as "eternal" is better translated as "age-long." God is Love - therefore His punishments are corrective, with the redemption of the one punished as the goal. His punishments are not cruel, vindictive, or eternal, for that would be evil, and God is not a God of evil.



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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semperfortis
reply to post by Lazarus Short
 


I agree the lake of fire is a metaphor

An eternity without God is not



Energy cannot be destroyed, only transformed. We will ALL be transformed "In Time".

This isn't one rodeo and bam... we lose. We have many life times to graduate to the next level and be raised out from this wilderness. We will all be raised and are being raised "In Time". There are many planes of existence. We will all make the mark eventually. It is not a "mark" that will be eternally "missed".

Think of it like this. You have ten children. All are unique in their own way and right. They each have great and not so great qualities. You have raised them all the same, however there are two that are just slower at learning than the others. These two kids get in all kinds of trouble at school and on and on and on. They grow up to be "bad" adults and in jail. Do you abandon them and wipe them clean from your family? Do you rather love them unconditionally and after much thought realize what happened in their past to make them end up where they are? Do you have empathy for them? Do you sympathize with them? Do you pray for them?

Whatever your answer to the above is, is how your maker will feel about you.

How we treat each other takes on more commandments than any.

Having a heart that gives with unconditional love is what it's like to be a follower of Christ, no matter what label you have. Christ is not a Christian! He is the Word.



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 12:57 PM
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I've been without God this far, and quite frankly, things make a lot of sense. Not in a way that would provide any of you guys real comfort, but this world isn't here to make us feel good. That's why we have religion. Yuk yuk!



posted on Dec, 16 2013 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


It troubles me that one time I was discussing the Bible with a friend and was asked about the belief in Jesus. I responded with the biblical quote that “No one gets to the Father except through Me” the words of Jesus. He then asked if he was going to hell and I said if he did not believe yes… He is a self-professed atheist.. He no longer cares for me which is rather funny if you look at it.

I wouldn't be troubled by that, at all. "Friends" that walk away because of one's own religious beliefs, or lack thereof, weren't true friends to begin with.


Perhaps that is why atheists attack Christianity at ever opportunity.. We have what they can never have.. A quiet soul.. A comfortable peace..

What I quoted above, doesn't apply to atheists in general. Those that tend to "attack Christianity" are, in fact, anti-theists. Many atheists have no need, or even a desire, to criticize those that do believe.


Perhaps it is an example of a lack of intellectual prowess to disparage someone’s intellect based on their beliefs????

I feel that would be much more indicative of a lack of integrity.


So maybe, just maybe, the insecurity of the non-believer is becoming more and more apparent?

No, the only "non-believers" that are apparent, are those that are also anti-theists.

See ya,
Milt
edit on 855America/Chicago12RAmerica/Chicago2013-12-16T13:31:20-06:00Monday00000020America/Chicago by BenReclused because: Typo





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