Why I Think God Warned us About Conservatives and Capitalism.

reply to post by Dustytoad


You skipped all over the place in that reply LOL.

What does gender or my username have to do with the topic of this thread.

If you were looking for a female perspective on the topic, ask God. As I'm one of those of the belief that God is indeed a Woman in nature.

Des

iRoyalty

TheWrightWing
Left wing ideology demands property be removed from any who they designate as wealthy by force and penalty of law for the greater good and to build a government big enough and powerful enough to impose that will.

Can you source this please? I've never heard of this before.

See Marx: Communist Manifesto, or any major bill the Democrat party has ever tried to pass.

Or, listen to the OWS mob's demands, or any leftist anywhere who demand access to other peoples time and money is a 'right'.

iRoyalty

TheWrightWing
You misunderstood.

Those who respect the 10 commandments and recognise the Christ as the Messiah have a guarantee of 'eternal happiness'

You mistook a conversation Jesus had with a man, for a command to everyone. A common mistake.

Luke 6:24
"Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you."

1 Timoth 6:9
But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.

Revelation 3:17
For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.

Dunno man... Sounds like he REALLY doesn't like rich people...

You are free to pretend not to get the point that wealth will not gain one entrance into heaven.

But I must wonder, why would someone knowingly embrace ignorance to make a point?

Sounds a little disingenuous, don't you think?

Destinyone
reply to post by Dustytoad

 

You skipped all over the place in that reply LOL.

What does gender or my username have to do with the topic of this thread.

If you were looking for a female perspective on the topic, ask God. As I'm one of those of the belief that God is indeed a Woman in nature.

Des

No I was not all over the place but I can see it wasn't clear enough. Gender roles I mentioned to say "god's word" isn't god's word. That part was agreeing with you.

The other part was in response to you saying warnings negate free will. They do not.

I never said username.. I said name. Everything controls you. Then it's up to you to pick the program.

iRoyalty
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

Ah, you are referring to communism... well since they dismantled the church I doubt that Jesus would approve of those... Also communism was terrible since the people in power got SUPER rich... You can't lump all socialist ideology in with that lot, otherwise I should be lumping you in with the Nazis... As for the OWS I think you missed their point, they wanted bankers and stock brokers to stop gambling away money and then call for a bailout which took money away from the social structure of society.

Also, I still think it is abundantly clear that God states that it is very difficult to get into heaven if you keep all your wealth to yourself, you are not charitable and you actively seek wealth. I have given you about 10 quotes from the bible to prove so, you have given me no quotes to say that the Bible approves of the wealthy yet.

iRoyalty
reply to post by TheWrightWing

 

Ah, you are referring to communism... well since they dismantled the church I doubt that Jesus would approve of those... Also communism was terrible since the people in power got SUPER rich... You can't lump all socialist ideology in with that lot, otherwise I should be lumping you in with the Nazis...

Also, I still think it is abundantly clear that God states that it is very difficult to get into heaven if you keep all your wealth to yourself, you are not charitable and you actively seek wealth. I have given you about 10 quotes from the bible to prove so, you have given me no quotes to say that the Bible approves of the wealthy yet.

The National Socialist Workers Party was also left wing, who demanded other peoples property and a government big enough to make healthcare "free" led by a charismatic leader who employed groupism to avoid criticism.

A familiar pattern.

God did not make that clear at all, in order to believe that you must preserve an ignorance about the message that was very clear: Wealth will not gain one entrance into heaven. Charity does not equal impoverishing yourself, charity is important and voluntary.

Period.

iRoyalty
I have given you about 10 quotes from the bible to prove so, you have given me no quotes to say that the Bible approves of the wealthy yet.

edit on 15-12-2013 by iRoyalty because: (no reason given)

The only thing the Bible quotes you offered proved was your willingness to misinterpret them for convenience of a convoluted point.

I relied on the exact wording of the quotes you offered to reinforce the obvious: Wealth will not gain anyone access to Heaven.

It's interesting, folks with an agenda need to interpret and reinterpret (and outright invent).

Honest folks simply read these plainly worded passages and understand their very clear meaning.

TheWrightWing

God did not make that clear at all, in order to believe that you must preserve an ignorance about the message that was very clear: Wealth will not gain one entrance into heaven. Charity does not equal impoverishing yourself, charity is important and voluntary.

Period.

Ezekiel 7:19
They cast their silver into the streets, and their gold is like an unclean thing. Their silver and gold are not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the Lord. They cannot satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it. For it was the stumbling block of their iniquity.

Sounds like he wants the rich to chuck away their wealth because it is "not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the lord", what part of that isn't clear that he wants people to give up their wealth?

reply to post by iRoyalty


I completely disagree with your assessment. Tithing and taxation are a totally different concept. Jesus believed in people giving (tithing) to those in need, be it family, friends, or charities. Tithing is a PERSONAL choice. Taxation is a requirement by the government to give your money to them, whereas they may redistribute it to the disenfranchised (minus a substantial cut for defense spending). Under taxation, the government is making the decision as to how much you give, and who gets categorized as needy. Republicans believe churches should take the forefront in social services, while democrats (libs) believe the government has a responsibility for the redistribution of wealth. IMO the republicans are more in line with Jesus's theology of giving to the poor.

Most Christians I know are great people who give until they can give no more. And all of them are what you would call conservatives.

iRoyalty

Sounds like he wants the rich to chuck away their wealth because it is "not able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the lord", what part of that isn't clear that he wants people to give up their wealth?

Yes, it sounds that way to you, due to your insistence on putting words in Gods mouth.

Yet one more example of how wealth will not save your soul.

You pretend it means that God hates rich people.

Its not the wealth, its the acceptance of the new covenant.

Rich or poor can enter the gates of heaven, if they respect the 10 commandments and recognise the Christ as the Messiah.

Money will never, ever change that condition.

Please, continue to feign ignorance about this very clear message.

TheWrightWing

iRoyalty

TheWrightWing
Left wing ideology demands property be removed from any who they designate as wealthy by force and penalty of law for the greater good and to build a government big enough and powerful enough to impose that will.

Can you source this please? I've never heard of this before.

See Marx: Communist Manifesto, or any major bill the Democrat party has ever tried to pass.

Or, listen to the OWS mob's demands, or any leftist anywhere who demand access to other peoples time and money is a 'right'.

blessed are those with eyes that see,
blessed are those with ears that hear,

this CULT of money is an affront to god,
it demands and pressures people to be greedy in the face of great poverty,
it removes the compassion from all who convert from unconditional love,
to the profit motive.

your lack of understanding of OWS, its intention and it message,
WE ARE ALL ONE in gods eyes, the 100%

only through the love of your neighbour, the poor and the sick,
you work to feed the children, cloth them and to show TRUE christen virtues,

will you cast out greed,
showing others the "narrow path" that leads to god,
means YOU must do the deeds that Christ spoke of,

if you serve money or the profit motive, and PERSONALLY choose not to love others as yourself,
and not feed the poor, then you will not be saved.

each man/woman has god given talents, they are not in your possession for ever,
they are given freely in the hope YOUR free will, will be used wisely,
and your talents used to follow the words that can heal this world of the pain that we now suffer,

you claim YOUR MONEY is yours, but the TALENT you used to gain that money,
is a gift from god,

so is YOUR MONEY really YOURS?
is making WALL ST a false idol, going to hold you in good stead with the lord?

make your choice with your heart,
do you serve god?
or money?

because the two are diametrically opposed, and one cannot truly serve god while serving profit.
either you use your talent at making money to serve god, (good)
or you use your talent to serve greed! (evil)

do you see?

xploder

reply to post by BeliefInReality


Fair point, I have always been very impressed with the charitable work of churches and I believe that a lot of people would be in a worse place without them. About the Republicans though, I don't see a difference between Republicans and Democrats, OK maybe on paper.. but when they are in power their policies are usually pretty similar, either way, Republicans aside, I find that the further Right you go the bigger the rich and poor divide, (TheWrightWing, I know you'll have a lot to say about this just please use sources when you attempt to disprove me ) what I got from my understanding of the Bible is that Jesus would not have wanted a rich and poor divide at all, he would have wanted everyone to be able to live a modest and humble lifestyle, which sounds more like left wing ideology (everyone has something similar no matter your education, job etc)

reply to post by TheWrightWing


I am not being Ignorant of it, refer to one of my initial response of you where I completely acknowledge that it is only HARDER to get into the kingdom of heaven, my point is that it makes it HARDER, why does it make it harder being rich?? Explain that to me, and it's not because rich people tend to be arrogant it clearly says the it is HARDER for a rich person (not an arrogant person) to enter the kingdom of heaven... Perhaps it's because it shows they have not been charitable and humble enough? I don't know, that's why I made this thread, I want people opinions or someone with a better knowledge on the bible to give me the answer, so far you have just called me ignorant and not disproved anything, so I am still searching.

reply to post by XPLodER


Yes! Thank you XPLodER!

Capitalism rewards the greedy, sounds more like the christian's devil's work to me This was the point I was getting at!

What Jesus wanted is irrelevant as he was a creation of the Romans, purely for control of the masses, which clearly worked.
Neither socialism or communism can ever work. They always end up in fascism. Our current version of capitalism is far from great, but there is far more freedom within it than you will ever get from socialism.
I do not who's behind it or why, but for some reason socialism is being pushed so much at the moment.

KBadger
What Jesus wanted is irrelevant as he was a creation of the Romans, purely for control of the masses, which clearly worked.
Neither socialism or communism can ever work. They always end up in fascism. Our current version of capitalism is far from great, but there is far more freedom within it than you will ever get from socialism.
I do not who's behind it or why, but for some reason socialism is being pushed so much at the moment.

Ok, but for the purpose of this argument we are assuming Jesus is real and that the Christians got it right, for arguments sake.

I do agree, most attempts at socialism has been ruined by man's greedy nature. Capitalism is better at controlling our greed and trying to direct it where it is needed, however, I feel like the greedy human beings in control of capitalism are ruining capitalism.. I'm not a man with answers but to me, I feel like Jesus wanted the rich to give to the poor and for a much smaller rich - poor gap, this sounded like left wing politics to me.

reply to post by iRoyalty


Truthfully I believe this argument shouldn't be defined by democrat vs republican, or even liberal vs conservative. These terms didn't have meaning during Jesus's time. It's tough to say everyone deserves the same pay/benefits when we all have different jobs, and different personal drives that make us want to better our lives. Should we pay a fast food employee the same as a medical physician? Again I believe it falls on the individual to decide if, and how much they are willing to give, and what group receives his/her charity.

XPLodERthis CULT of money is an affront to god,

According to whom?

Wealth is irrelevant when it comes to salvation is the clear message.

If you have much or none, all have the same condition to enter the pearly gates of heaven.

Money has no bearing on access to the hereafter.

Wealth is not the sin, refusal to accept the new covenant is.

How much plainer can this be made clear?

iRoyalty
I feel like Jesus wanted the rich to give to the poor and for a much smaller rich - poor gap, this sounded like left wing politics to me.

Charity is certainly not left wing in any way at all.

Any leftist will affirm: We need to tax more so government can spend more to fix all our woes, not charity.

Which if they are honest, will admit it's their form of "charity"; leftism is historically very generous... with other peoples money.