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posted on Dec, 23 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 



Your OP, is a such broad question. I have many truths which I hold too, some greater than others, so it’s just a question of where I should begin really.

I think I’ll continue on, from where Enlightend1 left off…(nice discussion btw)

It’s /Consciousness/Life/Awareness/Spirit, which creates/moulds matter/atoms into forms, and not the other way around IMO…



Gospel of Thomas verse 29
Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."



- JC




posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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Gospel of Thomas verse 29 Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."
reply to post by Joecroft
 


Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this verse somehow. Your saying that "Consciousness/Life/Awareness/Spirit, which creates/moulds matter/atoms into forms" but the quote seems to say the more impressive feat is the spirit coming into being because of the body. The more impressive feat as a general rule is what most writings imply is what happened so I'm wondering where I'm getting confused in your statements and quotes.



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 09:01 AM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 





drivers1492
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this verse somehow.


Yes, you are misunderstanding the verse IMO…



drivers1492
Your saying that "Consciousness/Life/Awareness/Spirit, which creates/moulds matter/atoms into forms"

but the quote seems to say the more impressive feat is the spirit coming into being because of the body.


Jesus is using a sarcastic tone and exaggerating, to help get the point across.

Or another way to look at it is, he’s kind of saying that “spirit coming into being because of the body” is a wonder of wonders, because it’s an absurd possibility for people to believe in that.

He’s essentially saying that one (flesh coming into being because of spirit) is more sensible, and more likely, over the other…which is why he describes the later, as the wonder of wonders etc…


And of course, Jesus statement in verse 29, has to be taken into context, and with the general feel of the entire Gospel of Thomas, where Jesus promotes things of the Spirit…

- JC



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


I see it as Jesus saying both come into being because of each other. Spirit comes into being because of flesh and flesh comes into being because of Spirit all at once.

How does the flesh exist without the Spirit there to perceive it? How does the Spirit exist without the flesh there to house it? Flesh gives birth to flesh and Spirit gives birth to Spirit but they both rely on one another to exist all the same.



posted on Dec, 24 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


Ok got ya. I have read through some of that but I am not familiar enough with it have a rational discussion of that gospel. I will look into the chapter that verse is from in particular when I have a chance in the next couple of days. Thanks for the explanation. I will reply more to it later after some reading.



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 





drivers1492
Ok got ya. I have read through some of that but I am not familiar enough with it have a rational discussion of that gospel. I will look into the chapter that verse is from in particular when I have a chance in the next couple of days. Thanks for the explanation. I will reply more to it later after some reading.


That’s ok, it’s no problem.

Just like the Bible, there are many opinions/interpretations as too what Jesus really means, in many passages, throughout the Gospel of Thomas. Some being more clear than others.

- JC



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Sorry for the delay…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I see it as Jesus saying both come into being because of each other. Spirit comes into being because of flesh and flesh comes into being because of Spirit all at once.


Hmmm interesting idea.

Although I still see it as Jesus pointing out, that it is spirit which creates flesh, and that flesh coming about on it’s own, is an absurd notion. In my view Jesus is really comparing 2 different ways, for something to come about/exist, and then trying to show that one is more likely, over the other…

And his last statement about “how this great wealth has made it’s home etc…”, is Jesus expressing his amazement at how this latter idea (flesh coming about on it’s own! And then bringing about spirit) has made it’s home here on Earth, and become the more widely accepted view…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
How does the flesh exist without the Spirit there to perceive it? How does the Spirit exist without the flesh there to house it? Flesh gives birth to flesh and Spirit gives birth to Spirit but they both rely on one another to exist all the same.


Very good questions.

Well, I can’t expect you to believe my own story, but when I was younger, I had an out of body experience. And during my experience, I was able to think, move, and just be, without my body. There are also a number accounts, of NDE, OBEs etc… where people experience similar aspects to my own story.

Of course, as you know already, spirit is life itself. The body without the spirit, would be without life. But IMO the spirit/life can exist, independently of the body.

The Flesh gives birth to flesh, through pro-creation etc... and creates more/new bodies.

Spirit giving birth to Spirit on the other had, is IMO about the “Spirit of God” or “Holy Spirit” coming into, or awakening a persons own inner spirit. Which in Biblical terms, means they become “Born Again”, or “Born of Spirit”, which more accurately translates too, being born from above, and born of God.


- JC
edit on 28-12-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 02:23 PM
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The body is animated by "breath"/spirit to be a soul.Spirit is life.The scriptures state the flesh man came first(The flesh man Adam.. humankind..anthropos) then the spirit man(the 2nd Adam)...which is born through Yahoshua(God is salvation)

No one has been "born anew on high" yet.First the physical body has to die.Death does not automatically make anyone born anew and definitely saying a prayer or accepting a belief doesn't either.The spirit life is born through a process just as the flesh life was that is 100% out of mankinds control.

Yahoshua outlined the process first in the parable of the seed and soils and in John 3.What is born of flesh is flesh what is born of spirit is spirit.Flesh is born in the valley of the shadow of death...the physical realm.The physical realm is the "womb" of the spirit realm.Mankind is only in the process of being conceived no one has been born anew yet regardless of all the false religious doctrines that are a myriad of extrapolations.

If anyone was born OF THE spirit they could not die.Spirit is life.The spirit(life) of man is a temporal life.It has an end just as everything in the physical realm that lives does.However it is the death of a seed.(unless a seed dies).Every "stage" is the death of one to the life of the next.

In the valley of the shadow of death we see that mirrored in everything.A plant starts as a seed and when it is grown into a good plant produces more fruit/seed to start the process over again...however in the valley of the shadow of death it only eventually produces more death through a cycle.It can never "ascend" above it's "life".It is doomed in an cycle of birth, death, resurrection.

The spirit of life doesn't work that way.It is infinite.It only grows and never dies.That is what Yahoshua was speaking of.To enter into it though mankind must first die a physical death.The process after that is not revealed because it can't be known.It is of another realm(The realm of the Kingdom of the creator God).Mankind could no more perceive that life than Mickey Mouse can perceive 3 dimensions because it is beyond his perception.Walt Disney can only draw 2D pictures in Mickeys 2D mind.

When Mickey is born anew he will perceive the 2D realm he lived in had no depth.The 2D life mirrored the 3D realm yet the 3D of depth will open up a whole new world life Mickey can never imagine even if Walt put those pictures in his mind.It is completely outside of his life experience because it is impossible for Mickey to perceive the 3D in 2D.

That is the overwhelming evidence NONE have experienced the "from above" realm.OBE, NDE and ALL E's are merely 3D experiences.Even if we could experience the above it would be in 3D.There is only one way to truly experience it ...be born anew....exactly as Yahoshua stated.

The bottom line is ALL of mankind is being "formed" in the belly/womb of the earth"(Yahoshuas alluding to the belly of the whale).Mankind will experience all 4 basic stages of "soil"(Adam comes from adamah which basically means soil) as the parable of the seed alludes to.That's the "beginning"process of salvation.The deliverance from the valley of the shadow of death.

By the wayside soil
rocky soil
thistles and thorns soil
fertile soil

here's mud in your eye...



posted on Dec, 28 2013 @ 02:30 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


As far as I can tell, OBE's and NDE's are only recounted from those that came back to their bodies in the end. I may be wrong, but I see that as the body having some kind of influence on those experiences, as in you need a body that is "livable" in order to have those experiences, you need a brain which is still functional (in the end) in order for those things to happen.

If Spirit does not come into being because of flesh as well, how would you explain births? The body nor the Spirit was there before conception, and you need both a body and spirit in order to be born. I see that as both body and Spirit relying on one another to exist, meaning they both came into being because of each other.

A Spirit coming into being because of the flesh is a wonder of wonders, and anything is possible with God, meaning even the less likely of the two (flesh> Spirit) is true as well. The Spirit sees the body, meaning the body comes into being because of the Spirit's perception, but the Spirit would would not be there to experience without the body either meaning the body has something to do with the Spirit's existence as well.



posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 





Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
As far as I can tell, OBE's and NDE's are only recounted from those that came back to their bodies in the end. I may be wrong, but I see that as the body having some kind of influence on those experiences, as in you need a body that is "livable" in order to have those experiences, you need a brain which is still functional (in the end) in order for those things to happen.


Unfortunately the situation of someone having to come back and recount the story, will most likely always be the case, which makes it hard to separate the two.




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
If Spirit does not come into being because of flesh as well, how would you explain births? The body nor the Spirit was there before conception, and you need both a body and spirit in order to be born. I see that as both body and Spirit relying on one another to exist, meaning they both came into being because of each other.

A Spirit coming into being because of the flesh is a wonder of wonders, and anything is possible with God, meaning even the less likely of the two (flesh> Spirit) is true as well.


Well, flesh certainly comes into being, to help give the spirit an experience in this life time, which I agree with…and I think that’s how you meant it above…?

But I think Jesus in verse 29, was meaning it in a creation sense…i.e. Spirit creates flesh, and the flesh doesn’t just come about, on it’s own…

Otherwise how can you explain Jesus last sentence in verse 29 below…?



Gospel of Thomas verse 29
Jesus said, "If the flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder. But if spirit came into being because of the body, it is a wonder of wonders. Indeed, I am amazed at how this great wealth has made its home in this poverty."


Because IMO, the reason Jesus uses the word “poverty”, is because he’s describing how such a belief, has had a negative impact on the world. Which in turn, leads me to conclusion, that one of Jesus (if) statements (the one which he exaggerates IMO) is the one/belief, that he disagrees with…

Please understand, I’m not saying that the Spirit doesn’t require a body, in order to have this life experience on Earth; but only that Jesus words, in verse 29, are IMO showing this idea, that it is Spirit which creates Flesh, and not the other way around…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The Spirit sees the body, meaning the body comes into being because of the Spirit's perception, but the Spirit would would not be there to experience without the body either meaning the body has something to do with the Spirit's existence as well.


Well, I wouldn’t say the body has something to do with the
Spirit’s existence, because I believe the Spirit came first and always existed, because it is eternal. But what I would say, is that the body has an influence, on the experience that the Spirit is having, through our limited body form.

- JC



posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 





Well, flesh certainly comes into being, to help give the spirit an experience in this life time, which I agree with…and I think that’s how you meant it above…?

But I think Jesus in verse 29, was meaning it in a creation sense…i.e. Spirit creates flesh, and the flesh doesn’t just come about, on it’s own…

Otherwise how can you explain Jesus last sentence in verse 29 below…?


Yes, that's how I meant it, but I also believe flesh is needed for any experience, not just this life but any other life we may experience afterwards. This is where reincarnation comes into play.

I would interpret the verse as Jesus asking how the great wealth that is called life could end up in such poverty like Earth. We have life but we do not understand it because of the poverty built up around us, the poverty represents the lies that we are taught from birth through religion. We are poor spiritually, which makes you wonder how such great wealth (the Spirit within all of us) could make a home in such poverty.




Please understand, I’m not saying that the Spirit doesn’t require a body, in order to have this life experience on Earth; but only that Jesus words, in verse 29, are IMO showing this idea, that it is Spirit which creates Flesh, and not the other way around…


Jesus says that flesh creating the Spirit is a wonder of wonders, and since he says that anything is possible with God in the gospels, I see that as him saying both are true and even the seemingly less likely of the two (flesh>Spirit) is true as well.




Well, I wouldn’t say the body has something to do with the
Spirit’s existence, because I believe the Spirit came first and always existed, because it is eternal. But what I would say, is that the body has an influence, on the experience that the Spirit is having, through our limited body form.



You cannot have life without a body or spirit, so both are needed for the process to take shape.

The body you have right now has always existed in one form or another because it is energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed and your body is energy. The Spirit did not come before the body because both are eternal, energy is eternal, everything is eternal, so nothing came before anything because everything has always existed.

You need both a body for the Spirit to take form and a Spirit in order for the body to take form. One is no more important than the other in my opinion.

I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right, I'm just giving my personal opinion and interpretation based on my own understanding.
edit on 37011414CST373 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 





Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Yes, that's how I meant it, but I also believe flesh is needed for any experience, not just this life but any other life we may experience afterwards. This is where reincarnation comes into play.


Ok, I’m not expecting you too have the answer to this next question. But if you don’t believe the Spirit can exist independently outside of the body. Then how does the Spirit remain intact/alive/aware, before it enters a new body during reincarnation…?

But like I said, it’s a big question…and may be too big a topic to be discussed here…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I would interpret the verse as Jesus asking how the great wealth that is called life could end up in such poverty like Earth. We have life but we do not understand it because of the poverty built up around us, the poverty represents the lies that we are taught from birth through religion. We are poor spiritually, which makes you wonder how such great wealth (the Spirit within all of us) could make a home in such poverty.



Yes, (“the great wealth (the Spirit within all of us))”… this is definitely a good way of looking at it, and actually complements my original way of viewing it. Yes, I believe it means the same thing.

The great wealth being the Spirit within people; and the living in poverty aspect, is people accepting the lie, (the wonder of wonders) of Flesh coming into being on it’s own etc…

But I would also add that this “wonder of wonders” (Flesh creating Spirit), which people are believing in (which leads to poverty), is what Jesus finds so amazing…i.e. he’s amazed spiritual beings, are believing in it…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
Jesus says that flesh creating the Spirit is a wonder of wonders, and since he says that anything is possible with God in the gospels, I see that as him saying both are true and even the seemingly less likely of the two (flesh>Spirit) is true as well.


This is the only place where we really differ, although we are both pretty much, getting to the essence of the verse.

I’m only looking at the entire paragraph on it’s own, and extrapolating from there…

I guess you could say I’m looking at it in a simplified way; but it seems that the 2 (if) statements are being presented, and one is being said to be more extreme/unlikely, than the other.

Then the final sentence seems to suggest that one of the previous statements, is what leads to poverty. And because one is described as the “wonder of wonders”, this in turn, ties in with the reason why, Jesus is so amazed, that people are believing in it…

So for me, there is a logical flow, in which the sentence fits together, and it makes perfect sense IMO. It also fits with my current understanding…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
The body you have right now has always existed in one form or another because it is energy. Energy cannot be created or destroyed and your body is energy. The Spirit did not come before the body because both are eternal, energy is eternal, everything is eternal, so nothing came before anything because everything has always existed.


Yes this is true, the potential for everything, always existed, but not every form existed, until it was made/created, but like you said above, the substance which makes up everything, always existed, and is eternal.

But when people talk about spirit/consciousness, they’re talking about that which is eternal, and that which creates/makes, other forms. Of course, the material those other forms are made of, are eternal, but the forms themselves, came after Spirit/Consciousness IMO…

But I think Jesus main point, is that it’s the spirit which creates, and the forms come after…



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You need both a body for the Spirit to take form and a Spirit in order for the body to take form. One is no more important than the other in my opinion.


I’m not sure what you mean by “a body for the Spirit to take form”

What do mean by “Spirit to take form”…?

The reason I ask, is because I see Spirit as a living, thinking, understanding, alive awareness. Which to me means it had to have had those attributes, long before a living body matter arrived, for it to enter into etc...



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I'm not saying you are wrong and I am right, I'm just giving my personal opinion and interpretation based on my own understanding.


Yes, absolutely, same goes for myself…I prefer to just try to show my own understanding, by showing how I think something fits together. I think that’s the best anyone can try to do.

But it seems like we both get the essence of what the verse is showing, which is good thing, and half the battle, so to speak.


But seriously, I do appreciate you sharing your view on it; your one of the few posters around ATS, who’s posts I generally agree with.

Although, I have a feeling that your understanding, is coming from other sources, other than just the Nag Hammadi library, and the New Testament. Just a hunch…


- JC
edit on 29-12-2013 by Joecroft because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2013 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 





Ok, I’m not expecting you too have the answer to this next question. But if you don’t believe the Spirit can exist independently outside of the body. Then how does the Spirit remain intact/alive/aware, before it enters a new body during reincarnation…?

But like I said, it’s a big question…and may be too big a topic to be discussed here…


From the images perspective (you and I), the transition from death to life is instantaneous. We cannot be aware of being unaware, life is continuous and never-ending meaning we will have life even after death in my opinion.

The Spirit stretches the entire universe, it is not isolated nor separate from the universe, the physical universe is connected to the Spirit therefore the Spirit can inhabit an infinite number of bodies that live in the universe.

In the same way as your question, how does a body get to where it is without the millions of generations of life before you to evolve into the body you have right now? It's all a process and we are part of it.




The great wealth being the Spirit within people; and the living in poverty aspect, is people accepting the lie, (the wonder of wonders) of Flesh coming into being on it’s own etc…

But I would also add that this “wonder of wonders” (Flesh creating Spirit), which people are believing in (which leads to poverty), is what Jesus finds so amazing…i.e. he’s amazed spiritual beings, are believing in it…



I see it as Jesus affirming both of them personally. He says wonder of wonders in a very positive way then goes on to say how this great wealth (Spirit within us) has come to live in such poverty (ignorance). We all have the Spirit but most are blind to it, we see where that has gotten us today, always on the brink of war, pollution, hate, greed, etc.




I’m only looking at the entire paragraph on it’s own, and extrapolating from there…

I guess you could say I’m looking at it in a simplified way; but it seems that the 2 (if) statements are being presented, and one is being said to be more extreme/unlikely, than the other.


I personally believe the gospels for the most part are true teachings and sayings of Jesus, and I believe Thomas' sayings are authentic as well and I try to cross reference them and look at them "holistically" as one work.




Then the final sentence seems to suggest that one of the previous statements, is what leads to poverty. And because one is described as the “wonder of wonders”, this in turn, ties in with the reason why, Jesus is so amazed, that people are believing in it…

So for me, there is a logical flow, in which the sentence fits together, and it makes perfect sense IMO. It also fits with my current understanding…


I see it as Jesus affirming both and wondering how this "wonder" and "wonder of wonders" have made their home in this spiritual poverty. He's basically saying how amazed he is the Spirit can be so blind and dark on one planet where religion rules.





Yes this is true, the potential for everything, always existed, but not every form existed, until it was made/created, but like you said above, the substance which makes up everything, always existed, and is eternal.

But when people talk about spirit/consciousness, they’re talking about that which is eternal, and that which creates/makes, other forms. Of course, the material those other forms are made of, are eternal, but the forms themselves, came after Spirit/Consciousness IMO…


Just as the physical comes in so many forms, so does the Spirit. Your personality, humor, beliefs, etc. are all the Spirit in different forms, the Spirit expresses itself with different parts of itself like emotions or memory. You are only one of the many images that populate the universe, you are only one form of the Spirit as far as your personality and uniqueness goes.



I’m not sure what you mean by “a body for the Spirit to take form”

What do mean by “Spirit to take form”…?

The reason I ask, is because I see Spirit as a living, thinking, understanding, alive awareness. Which to me means it had to have had those attributes, long before a living body matter arrived, for it to enter into etc...


You are one unique perspective of the universe, you have had your own unique life experiences that have formed you into the person you are today. A physical universe and your body are needed for you to experience anything. Without physicality there is only darkness because the light has nothing to bounce off of.

Your body has always existed too, it was formed over millions of years on Earth alone, not to mention the sun itself which is billions of years old. Just as your Spirit comes in many forms, so does your body, and both evolve and change with time.




Although, I have a feeling that your understanding, is coming from other sources, other than just the Nag Hammadi library, and the New Testament. Just a hunch…


A lot comes from just my own path and what I have personally come to realize, but my understanding was helped tremendously by Jesus' words in the gospels and the Gospel of Thomas sayings. I believe Jesus' overall message agrees with my my beliefs so far, but I know I still have a ways to go.
edit on 37012323CST373 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2013 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I personally believe the gospels for the most part are true teachings and sayings of Jesus, and I believe Thomas' sayings are authentic as well and I try to cross reference them and look at them "holistically" as one work.



Yes, it’s good to cross reference, to help find an overall truth. I was only breaking down the sentence, to help show how I reached my conclusion.

But I have to say, that what I’ve broken down, also seems to fit a wider view as well, because I’m not aware of Jesus ever saying, that Flesh created Spirit, anywhere in the NT or Nag Hammadi Library…




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I see it as Jesus affirming both of them personally. He says wonder of wonders in a very positive way then goes on to say how this great wealth (Spirit within us) has come to live in such poverty (ignorance). We all have the Spirit but most are blind to it, we see where that has gotten us today, always on the brink of war, pollution, hate, greed, etc.

I see it as Jesus affirming both and wondering how this "wonder" and "wonder of wonders" have made their home in this spiritual poverty. He's basically saying how amazed he is the Spirit can be so blind and dark on one planet where religion rules.



It’s only the “affirming both” part, which I disagree with.

I also think that Jesus uses both statements, with an “if”, because he is presenting both statements, as a question to the reader/listener.

It becomes a bit easier to see, when both statements are laid out together and we remove the “ifs”, as follows…

(1) Flesh came into being because of Spirit = a wonder...

(2) Spirit came into being because of Flesh = a wonder of wonders...

And just to help clarify “came into being” = created/formed…IMO

Which if you really think about it, means that both statements, can’t be true together…and that Jesus is pitting the 2 against each other…

And on top of that, if both are true, then surely there would have been no need for Jesus to describe one, as a “wonder of wonders”, and the other as just “a wonder”…in other words, they should both be described equally, if they are both equally true etc...

Don’t think I can break it down, any better than that, so I guess we can agree to disagree.

But although we both differ on the above, we’ve both arrived at the fundamentally important overall message of the verse. Which is that people have become blinded to the spirit within themselves, and have believed the lie that they are only Flesh.

Which in turn, like you said, has led to all the evil, wars, lies and corruption etc…I also believe that teaching we are spiritual beings, was an integral part of Jesus overall message, most of which, was left out of the NT…

So I mostly definitely agree with you, on that aspect…*thumbs up*



Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
A lot comes from just my own path and what I have personally come to realize, but my understanding was helped tremendously by Jesus' words in the gospels and the Gospel of Thomas sayings. I believe Jesus' overall message agrees with my my beliefs so far, but I know I still have a ways to go.


I think your on a good path honestly…you were brought up religiously and had the courage to step outside of that and search for truth, by asking yourself the important questions.

And this may sound a bit heavy, but God led me to the Gospel of Thomas. And I feel like I was given an important piece of the jigsaw puzzle, right near the start of my spiritual journey.

Since then I’ve been working towards a truth, between the NT and the Nag Hammadi library. Some truths work and fit together, but there others which I’m still trying to piece together. So just like you said; I still have a long way to go myself…

On a side note here – What is the picture in your avatar?…It’s looks familiar to me somehow, but for the life of me, I can’t seem to place it…

- JC



posted on Dec, 30 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 


I'll have to look more into the flesh creating the Spirit. I see it as if you didn't have your body, you wouldn't be who you are today. We are all locked into our own unique perspectives within these particular bodies, that shows me that the body must be there for the Spirit to reside in. The body creating the Spirit is at conception when the fetus is mature enough to be viable for life, though then again, the baby must have living parents with the Spirit of life to give birth to the baby as well. I see both being the case personally but you never know, that could change.




This is the actual picture but my profile wouldn’t fit all of it and i have no way of cropping it, but I think it came out pretty nicely anyways.
edit on 31011313CST313 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2013 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 




Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
I'll have to look more into the flesh creating the Spirit. I see it as if you didn't have your body, you wouldn't be who you are today. We are all locked into our own unique perspectives within these particular bodies, that shows me that the body must be there for the Spirit to reside in. The body creating the Spirit is at conception when the fetus is mature enough to be viable for life, though then again, the baby must have living parents with the Spirit of life to give birth to the baby as well. I see both being the case personally but you never know, that could change.


Well, I kind of agree with part of what your saying above, in that the body needs the Spirit to develop along side it, in order to have this life experience and become who you are. Although in my view, you/we/everyone is far greater, than what we currently think we are…and what we can currently see and perceive etc…

And I don’t see it as the body creating Spirit, but only that spirit is that which is greater and develops along side the body, having entered it at birth.

But then again, I believe the spirit of life, doesn’t need a body in order to be. And if you think about the beginnings of creation/universe, then there was no “body”, for consciousness/Spirit/awareness to function in, and yet it created everything, all the same…

The reason I believe this is so, is because Spirit is alive, and anything which is alive, must also experience life, albeit from it’s own perspective point, which in all probability, must have occurred, long before a body had arrived on the scene…IMO

Of course, I could be wrong, but I don’t see any other logical way to explain it, because if I could, then I might change my mind…





Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


This is the actual picture but my profile wouldn’t fit all of it and i have no way of cropping it, but I think it came out pretty nicely anyways.


Yeah, I like it!…and the avatar goes with your handle name too…cool…

- JC



posted on Dec, 30 2013 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by drivers1492
 


Im thinking Im half-right... all of the time, and Im all-right...half of the time.

So, most of the time, Im paddling with one paddle. In a circle.

With regards to religions and different faiths and dogmas...Im always willing to try to understand the other half...most of the time.

Always....I learn more than way



posted on Dec, 31 2013 @ 10:42 AM
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Please forgive my abandonment of the thread I will back soon.



posted on Jan, 3 2014 @ 08:17 AM
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Let me start by commending everyone in this thread. It's becoming so rare to actually read a thread in this particular forum section that doesn't erode into kids jabbing one another with sticks. And again my apologies for abandoning it for a time.

The discussion I have missed concerning the spirit/body is interesting. I can understand the correlation between the two and their necessity as it's being presented. Since I hold no real belief in a spirit it is hard for me to discuss whether or not one is needed for the other.

I do have to admire the elegance of it though. The melding of two aspects(spirit/flesh). It would be a beautiful thing.





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