Your view and why it's correct

reply to post by Serdgiam

I dont believe an individual can ever have access to the absolute picture as it pertains to ALL things, but together, we can get a better look at the different ways it can be interpreted. Even then though, the totality of that would only summarize the human context of a place that is much, much bigger than us.

Briliant. ^

It's so huge. Knowing how much we don't know individually is so...amazing. I believe we need to rally together and 'consciously' agree that we just don't really know; but that slavery, war, poverty, hunger, and greed are, well, not good.

reply to post by wildtimes


You made some jumps there that really start to point to what I think as well.

We all "have" to work together in some way, what is the most viable way to do it? It would seem to me that the current methods of "destructive competition" are not working out so well. We look at other viewpoints/competitors as something which must be torn apart, or proven invalid, or converted. If we were to constructively compete, knowing we are all involved with where we go from here, perhaps the way we relate to one another would change as well. We would be writing our own cultural story, instead of dancing along to a tune that has long ago lost its relevance.

It would be a sight to behold to see humanity work together for their common and objective goals rather than constantly defending/attacking ideology and semantics. It wouldnt require any more effort, per se, just a different direction based on choices every one of us make every single day.

In my opinion, "How" we view the world isnt nearly as important as "What" we do with the time we have. And yet, we tend to focus on the former significantly more than the latter, at the expense of all of our progress..

drivers1492
reply to post by eisegesis

 

I like the analogies you used there. One question, why do you consider all religions a prison? Is it because you don't think there is a direct path as your response seems to suggest and it all ends up the same?

I like fractals. No matter what you and I believe, we will always fall into the pattern of just another repeating pattern. My lifetime is an infinitesimal speck on the electric spiral graph.

Religion is what you "believe"(noun) and have faith (verb) in.So even though there are many that appear to have the "same" belief and faith .....in reality it isn't.It is only what that person "believes" and has faith in.That is the nature of mankind.Everyone was "born" religious.They believe and have faith in "their" religion.They are in effect "My God" because the vast majority of all mankind believes they have a "free will".It doesn't matter what their religion affiliation is...it's a doctrine of mankind....their "God given" birthright.That is at the core of what you are trying to uncover.It is natural for an individual to "believe" what they believe is right because.... they have "willed"(chosen) it to be so.

What a person believes is what they "will"(choose) to believe and have faith in.That "method" is as varied as there are people.No one follows the "exact" same path.To deny what someone believes and has faith in is like saying their head is a useless appendage.None can believe that and take the appropriate action to dismember it and live.They have cut themselves off from all reason and what they believe.

The Religion of belief in faith dies the hardest death because it is the death of the person...everything they believe and ARE.The natural reaction is to defend belief in faith to the death...and that's the rub ...belief in faith appear to be noble however.... they aren't.

The fact is belief and faith fly in the face of reason and fact.To believe something is to not know it.In effect it is a state of doubt sustained by hope of something that isn't known....faith.
The second rub is everything must FIRST come to be believed in faith.The downside to that is most belief in faith is just..in error...many times grave error.Most sensible people will agree just because someone "believes" something doesn't mean it is true.

And that is the heart of the matter.Truth.The very elusive perennially staring mankind in the face facts.They are immovable as wall that is thick as it is tall . There is only one thing truth can be...known.It can't be believed.To even believe the truth is to not know it at all.The most misquoted statement of truth is "The Truth will make you free".It is not untrue however it is missing the catalyst.

"If you continue in the Truths "word" then you will truly be its disciple THEN you will "know" the Truth and THEN the Truth will make you free".

Mans religion(not just Christianity) has turned that true statement upside down and made it about belief in faith.The bottom line is belief in faith is only the propellent that accelerates you from one place to another.That source will soon be depleted ..most are only running on fumes.A different belief in faith can be used(very few do that) however it will be burnt up also.

Belief in faith were not meant to take anyone on the long journey across the cosmos.It was only meant to eject you out of the pull of gravity of the earth and start the journey.Eventually the fuel of faith will run out around Neptune(if you get that far) and you will still be light years from the closest star.

The good thing is we are not being asked to visit every planet searching for more "fuel" to get us to the next planet ad infinitude. The whole process was very deliberate.Mankind was born religious.That religion will be the death of them.There is only one way to stop this death cycle of sowing seeds into the ocean...DEATH to death....religion.It must eventually and inevitably be starved of all hope until it acquiesces with NO choice.

That seems cruel however it is the only way.Religion is the core of "mankind's life" which is an illusion because that "life" is actually Death!!Technically that's delusional. When that "death" is dead then life "can" begin....free of delusion (freed of bondage).Free to "know" the Truth.Knowing the truth is like breathing ...you only have to be alive to do it and it is the reason you are alive.

The bottom line is when the Truth is known there is no argument.It is not knowledge "learned" from a book... ANY book or "books".It can't be taught ..by ANY teacher...IN any form.No one can be "corrected" to know it.There is ZERO method for it.It is not an "enlightenment" that can be "raised" or any religious rhetoric etc etc....It is 100% Truth in fact.

The beauty is all of mankind will "know" the truth..but first comes death.For the "many are called"(all of mankind) it is physical death.However that is only the 1st death.The 2nd death is to "their" religion which is the false God mankind was born to believe in faith.It is ALL an infinite process.These few nano seconds of life in the physical realm are not even the beginning!..

The Truth is truly..out there.

FlyersFan
I've been on a few different sites and it's always the religion forum that is the worst part of the sites. I'd love to see it closed down here totally. But the flip side of that is that it keeps the folks who feel the need to proselytize off the main boards.

edit on 12/15/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Considering that you yourself have authored threads on the subject, I'm not sure I understand why you feel this way?

I would be quite upset if the religion forum were removed. People who find it offensive must think awfully highly of themselves, considering nobody is forcing them to read the material. There are MANY different subjects to be discussed that fall under the umbrella of the Religion, Faith, and Theology forum (or the conspiracies in religion forum). It is a necessary forum on ATS, whether haters like it or not.

Lately I have tried to stay out of discussions on faith/religion, as I find myself reacting negatively to some of the more ignorant and abusive comments I read, and sometimes I lash out because of that. But I still realize that having these discussions can be incredibly valuable, and even if things get out of hand occasionally, sometimes said discussions can lead to new understandings.

As for the OP:

I believe what I do because of the things I have witnessed with my own two eyes (and others have witnessed with me). However, I don't believe that my own experiences give me a blank check to declare myself as being "right" and others as "wrong". While I might believe other people to be in error regarding certain belief structures, I have learned that 99% of the time people need to experience their own paradigm shifts. They can't be coerced into them for the most part, and "bible bashing" is incredibly counter productive and often has the opposite of the desired effect.

It's all in how you go about it. I can believe you are wrong in a discussion without putting you down or belittling your personal beliefs. 2 people with differing beliefs can still discuss things civilly. At the very least, the goal should be a better understanding between those 2 people about each other (even if they walk away from the discussion with the same core beliefs they had going into it).

ETA: I feel it necessary to add that while I hold certain "core" beliefs to be absolute truths, I can't really pin them down in an absolute way. It would be exceedingly arrogant for a person to assume that they know everything there is to know about the universe and the outcome of all possibilities. I'm but the tiniest speck on a tiny spec in a vast universe. Certain things I see as truth, but to allow the perception of those truths to blind oneself to other possibilities can be dangerous and stunt ones own personal growth. At the end of the day, the true sage admits he knows nothing!

reply to post by drivers1492


My view:

Father is awareness.
Holy Ghost is will.
Son is body.

Together they form the reality we know: [good] concept (re)production.

Awareness + will = concept = body = image.

Everything is trying to produce or reproduce [good] concepts or images. The reason why they are doing this is unclear to me. (I think it is either a side effect of will being good or because will seeks pleasure.)


Why I responded:

The reason I sometimes try to correct what others' views are is the same reason you stated your displeasure of others finding fault in others' views - it is us trying to reproduce [good] concepts where we see faulty concepts. Sadly, in doing so, we have caused them to become bad, where only good was meant to be produced -- and if we are unjust in our corrections, we have produced bad.

This brings me to church and the reason I think we exist. To be just good is the highest pleasure, and this is what Son desires - to be just and true in the production of good. Church: the hierarchy and principle of what is just and good production.

Simply put, the reason we try to correct others is because we desire good concept production -- because we were made by God and in the likeness of God.

DeadSeraph
People who find it offensive must think awfully highly of themselves,

I said that the religion forum shouldn't be there because in every site I've posted at, the religion forum ended up being a problem AND because people talking about their religious beliefs really doesn't fit in this site anyways - IMHO.

FlyersFan

DeadSeraph
People who find it offensive must think awfully highly of themselves,

I said that the religion forum shouldn't be there because in every site I've posted at, the religion forum ended up being a problem AND because people talking about religious beliefs really doesn't fit in this site anyways - IMHO.

edit on 12/15/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Then why author religious themed threads? For instance you recently wrote this one.

I think it does fit in with the theme of the site, since there are conspiracy related themes that run parallel with religious concepts (ancient aliens vs nephilim debate, for instance). There are a number of conspiracy related subjects that fall within the subject, the one I listed is a drop in the proverbial bucket.

Sometimes these discussions can take constructive forms. For instance, I wrote a thread about why some atheists feel the need to proselytize, as I was genuinely curious to hear from atheists on the subject and come to a better understanding of their feelings. The thread was civil for the most part and I felt I had learned more about people with differing perspectives. That is a positive outcome, imo.

wildtimes
Briliant. ^

It's so huge. Knowing how much we don't know individually is so...amazing. I believe we need to rally together and 'consciously' agree that we just don't really know; but that slavery, war, poverty, hunger, and greed are, well, not good.

that sounds like the realm of ethics and morality? I sometimes wonder where this came from...

there are those who need to keep a constant watch over these definitions and in a sense almost worship them, for it is a truth.

there have been times in history where someone has come along and defied these codes in the name of the "greater good" more recent so as to give us actual photographs of the events.

we won't be fooled again!

DeadSeraph
Then why author religious themed threads?

Because the forum is there. My statement stands.
The religion forum is always trouble on chat sites.
Chat sites run better when they dump the religion forums.
That's been my experience elsewhere.

So sorry that you are having a hard time accepting that.
But there it is.

reply to post by SisyphusRide

there have been times in history where someone has come along and defied these codes in the name of the "greater good" more recent so as to give us actual photographs of the events.

we won't be fooled again!

I have no idea, honestly!, what you are talking about.
???

FlyersFan

DeadSeraph
People who find it offensive must think awfully highly of themselves,

I said that the religion forum shouldn't be there because in every site I've posted at, the religion forum ended up being a problem AND because people talking about their religious beliefs really doesn't fit in this site anyways - IMHO.

edit on 12/15/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

Speaking of religion....Hell must be freezing over!! I've agreed with you all day!!!

reply to post by eisegesis


While I have no idea what your trying to say I enjoyed the way it was presented especially the spidey pic.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


I think that's my whole point, that 2 opposing views should be able to discuss things and remain civil. In that when the discussion reaches its conclusion or a point it is useless to continue they part at least with a deeper understanding of the other person in the conversation. I think if folks did recognize their own shortcomings in knowledge it would be beneficial here.

reply to post by Bleeeeep


While we may want good concept production as you put it the point is how we relay our own opinion or understanding. Not that people simply share, they share it in a manner that is not helpful to a conversation.

wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

there have been times in history where someone has come along and defied these codes in the name of the "greater good" more recent so as to give us actual photographs of the events.

we won't be fooled again!

I have no idea, honestly!, what you are talking about.
???

I'm going to have to second this response by wt. Off topic may I add I read your username as syphilisride every time I see it. It makes me snicker.

reply to post by Rex282


I've read your response 3 times trying to find an appropriate response. I'm sorry I really just don't have one since I'm failing to follow the truth, no truth, couple of deaths and going to venus. My apologies for my lack of comprehension.

wildtimes
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

there have been times in history where someone has come along and defied these codes in the name of the "greater good" more recent so as to give us actual photographs of the events.

we won't be fooled again!

I have no idea, honestly!, what you are talking about.
???

lets just say... Jesus is not a socialist or communist as we would think of the term today. The term didn't even exist in Jesus' day.

you can not ascribe a title to God, nor can there be a successor.

Well, a great "expandable" attitude is perfect for ATS. It's an interesting and compelling view to even accept the views of others, sometimes. Yet we always must remember that we're the eternal mesh of the fabrics of time, space, and spacetime.

It's a User-Generated hologram, this live.
So, keep the lights on so the blindest bat forgets how to use sonar.

reply to post by drivers1492


In conversation, you are either producing or reproduce a concept. In your reply to me, you were trying to reproduce your concept of good, where others have created a bad concept (by trying to reproduce their version of good concepts in others.) As another example, I am trying to reproduce my concept that is an explanation about concept (re)production, so you will be at ease with others, who, like everyone else, are trying to reproduce their concepts byway of all of their willed actions.

Conversations are rarely about seeking concepts from others, and more about reproducing your [good] concepts in others (where there is a perceived bad/fault/err/missing concept).

The very act of conversation is the attempt at reproducing concepts in others or to have them produce a concept for you (by asking questions, etc). Should anyone hold their tongue, and never try to reproduce their faith based concepts in others, there would never be a thread, nor sermon, nor commandment about religion or faith to begin with.

Should faith based concept reproduction be limited to thread creators?

...

Concept (re)producers is what we are - we cannot escape it (short of the second death.)

And sorry about the post being so elementary but I felt I should explain it simply so it is very easy to grasp what people are doing when they try to correct others. They see displeasure/err in their mind so they try to fix it by correcting others - it's simple, yet it is the core of everything we are as willful beings - probably a byproduct of good will.