Your view and why it's correct

reply to post by Serdgiam


Very good explanation of your thought process. I think the way things like faith cannot be firmly calculated like math is true it does leave a door to get caught up in semantics. But I am guilty of it just like most others. One thing I rarely see is what you wrote here....

I could be wrong though. So, theres that too.

I'm fine with being wrong and chances are I am which is cool. Means I have more to learn.

drivers1492
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

I mean no disrespect but you confuse the crap out of me. I think I may understand your point yet not fully.

it's all good...

there is not such thing as proselytization when the principal is transcendence.

every other belief leaves society enslaved or only one human left in the world... when you run their course in a thought experiment or from viewing history.

all religions are good... specially when they teach goodness... yes even atheism in my nation anyway.

reply to post by drivers1492

I"m just saying that seems to be the natural direction that religion forums take. I've posted at a half dozen sites and they all had/have religion forums. It was the religion forums that always ended up a mess. Mostly because of proselytizing .... both direct and subtle. Intense people get on a self appointed mission to try to convert people of other faiths and when those people don't convert, the silly personal insults fly.

I don't think ATS needs a religious discussion forum.
Conspiracy in religion forum? Yes. Off topic religion forum? No.
But obviously it's not up to me.

drivers1492
reply to post by natalia

 

Thanks and if I may ask a question without putting yourself out to much? Like I originally asked in the op I am curious what brought you to the point to where you believe your correct in your belief? Research or personal experience?

No worries if your not comfortable sharing I don't want anyone to put anything forward that makes them feel uncomfortable as faith is a very personal thing.

See I see your question and my heart starts racing with anxiety.. I don't know why... Maybe it's I don't know enough and I'm not knowledgeable enough as well.

I can't prove that what I believe is right and I can't prove it's wrong either. I can't tell anyone that they are wrong for believing something different than me.

If I'm gonna be bold, I guess I should just go ahead and be bold and push my anxieties away.

I was raised catholic. Then I started going to a baptist church..huge difference. My parents began going as well and we were all 'saved' and walked down the isle and joined the baptist church. I was involved in all activities at the church. I loved it, I felt I loved everything about it. I went to camps had great friends. Then I started hearing things that I felt were just plain wrong. It made me uncomfortable and I didn't like it. I questioned of course. I feel we all question.

So as I got older and stopped going to church as much I started questioning even more. Then I denied everything. I denied that there was anything out there what so ever.

Then nothing special happened or anything I just felt that some of what I had been taught was true. I just felt it deep in my heart. And some of what I had been taught was for fear and to be able to control mass amounts of people. I didn't understand.. Then I had my lil boy and that right there was something amazing.

I even started researching more and trying to find out my truths, but of course it was hard. Especially while still questioning so much.
I started reading about Greek mythology and thinking to myself, this isn't myth...no one can prove it was just myth. I felt in my heart that those were true stories. I feel lots of myths hold a degree of truth in them but who's to say really.. Not me.

So now here as I stand I will say that what I believe is kinda not the way the bible says. I feel there are tons of metaphors and of course have read that there are other religions and texts that have some of the same stories as the bible...

I don't believe that hell is for man. And I don't believe that if you don't believe as I, you're going to hell. I feel that to be a control thing...
I hope I'm making sense, cause even in my head things don't make sense. I had a fall in 2008. I have traumatic brain injury. My memory is bad and my knowledge is little.

I can't tell you why I believe what I do but I just do. Sure I have had personal experience ... And personal experience seems to be enough for me. I don't need scientific proof. I don't need logic. I have been called illogical for believing in Jesus at all.. Which is sad to me.

Like I said ... I hold my beliefs in my heart and I can't prove it or disprove it. And I'm not right and I sure could be wrong ... But am I hurting anyone for believing what I do? ...I don't think I'm hurting anyone...imo. My brain also doesn't help... It doesn't hold info like it used to. I do feel there is so much more to life than what we've been told. I hold my spiritual experiences deep within.


Ok here goes...
-nat


**Eta--I wanted to add that we can't choose who we were born to. If my parents were Christians then that's their right to teach what they believe and then my right to choose wether I believe what they believe. Just like in any other religion...

I have an 8 year old boy. Used to go to church after my fall a lot. I just felt I needed to and it was a good church. I have taught my boy what I believe and I have told him that he doesn't have to believe as I do and that many people hold different beliefs that aren't the same as mine.

I've told my boy not to judge others for what they believe and never make fun of someone for what they believe. Christ promoted love. Love is a powerful force...imo.

wildtimes
ANY religion that makes people feel like they are a piece of crap is worthy of ridicule.

That's the truth. But can a discussion handle that? I don't know ...
That's why I wouldn't mind seeing the Religion forum disappear.
It's probably more trouble than it's worth.
But that'd be a decision for the moderators ... they volunteer to babysit us all ...

reply to post by FlyersFan


I never see anyone on here trying to convert another... that's weird.

all I see is attacking and defending, this is not a forced conversion, there's no such thing, never was.

ok maybe in Age of Empires game where you can send your priests out and they turn the red buildings blue.

but in the minds of humans... it is hardly the truth, unless one is shown or sees a truth.

drivers1492
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

Very good explanation of your thought process. I think the way things like faith cannot be firmly calculated like math is true it does leave a door to get caught up in semantics. But I am guilty of it just like most others.

Yeah, I even think that "most others" could easily be replaced with "everyone." We almost have to "translate" what the other person is saying into our individual "world." If we were to say to everyone in this thread to "Imagine a chair in a room" and draw it, the different universes we could catch a glimpse into would be as numerous as the participants.

One thing I rarely see is what you wrote here....

I could be wrong though. So, theres that too.

I'm fine with being wrong and chances are I am which is cool. Means I have more to learn.

That one caveat has led me to more learning and wonder than any other. I dont believe an individual can ever have access to the absolute picture as it pertains to ALL things, but together, we can get a better look at the different ways it can be interpreted. Even then though, the totality of that would only summarize the human context of a place that is much, much bigger than us.

Our perspective is absolute to us individually, in that we are not able to see things in any other way than how we see them. I think the issues comes in when that individual limitation is applied to others as the absolute Truth they *must* follow.

I don't belong to any religion currently and probably never will. They are nothing more than a prison for the mind. Like driving around with your e-brake on because you don't want to admit it works better with it off.


To me, beliefs are like every human coming to the edge of a large river. In order for the species to advance, they are forced to cross this obstacle and continue. Everybody will develop their own idea on how they will make it across.

Coincidently, many people ended up having very similar ideas, so they worked together and made a bridge. Others were given the opportunity to cross this bridge, but given their nature, decided to take the journey alone.

They new in their hearts that many who had crossed the bridge, did not share the same beliefs as those who built it. They merely crossed the obstacle, hidden amongst the true believers only to reveal themselves later when the guilt of fakery and deceit forces them to give up.

Those who's thoughts did not align with any other's were not tainted with this guilt. There was no regret or remorse for those who had finished crossing, but an actual respect from those who decided to go it alone. Those who created the bridge were still a symbol of hope that when we can not make the journey alone, we can give ourselves to others for strength.

In the end, everybody eventually developed their own way of crossing this river. The journey became twice as long for those who did not take the bridge but in the end they had learned twice as much. Because of this extra knowledge, they were there to help carry the weak who had originally been carried by the backs of others.


Thanks for anyone patient enough to read my thoughts. Hope I didn't offend. Keep dreaming.

reply to post by eisegesis


you're either with us... or against us!

you know who's waiting behind that slaughterhouse door?

...your neighbor

SisyphusRide
I never see anyone on here trying to convert another... that's weird.

Direct - I've seen people come on and say 'God wants you to be Catholic. Convert'; and I've seen 'Islam is the only hope for the world. Everyone needs to convert'; and I've seen a bunch of 'accept Jesus and be saved or else you'll go to hell' stuff. (I could name a few names, but I shouldn't so I won't)

Indirect - Agenda filled threads and posts. All the time.
(I could name a few names, but I shouldn't so I won't)

It's a part of some of the organized religions ... Catholic, Protestant, Muslim ....
Convert. Bring people in. 'save people'. We are right and everyone else is wrong.
Let them know it .... evangelize .... etc

is this thread supposed to be a fun thread? cause we need those sometime too ya know

reply to post by wildtimes


We agree in the aspect of a theology that teaches that someone is not worthy is a bad thing especially when it comes to kids. Growing up in the church I always had a problem with the idea that I could never be worthy, no matter what. Just didn't make sense to me. But, I do disagree with this statement, not with what it says but how it is applied....

ANY religion that makes people feel like they are a piece of crap is worthy of ridicule.

The religion may be ridiculous, but the people that have come to gain some hope or truth within it do not deserve that ridicule. There has to be a way to promote your stance without coming to this point. I understand that some will never see how they hurt others and why so why continue "beating a dead horse" so to speak. Does it honestly accomplish anything at all?

reply to post by FlyersFan


My religion is Patriotism... I am not trying to convert anyone... they come willingly.

reply to post by drivers1492

We agree in the aspect of a theology that teaches that someone is not worthy is a bad thing especially when it comes to kids.

Cool. :thumb up:

Growing up in the church I always had a problem with the idea that I could never be worthy, no matter what. Just didn't make sense to me.

Exactly.

The religion may be ridiculous, but the people that have come to gain some hope or truth within it do not deserve that ridicule.

I fully acknowledge that many people find solace, comfort, and hope in their religions. That's fine; it's totally human, and not a problem. No, those people do not deserve the ridicule.

I am addressing only the "shaming" aspects of the various Abrahamic religions: the Control, Fear, Hell-fire, Threats, and YOUSUCK!YOULOSER! kind of thing that people have to endure.

reply to post by natalia


Beautiful response, honestly. You see, what you have said, in my eyes leaves no room for questions nor ridicule. You are honest in that you can't prove only that for you, its true and makes sense. My mother is like this. While my father and I will discuss the bible and why's and what nots I do not question her. I find that this type of mindset deserves respect. Thank you for sharing that and let no one bother you that says your wrong because you are not.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


Yes this could be a very fun thread if that's the direction that is needed. All I want is it to remain civil.

here are the commandments if anyone is interested in willingly converting...?


Declaration of Independence

United States Constitution

Bill of Rights

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

reply to post by eisegesis


I like the analogies you used there. One question, why do you consider all religions a prison? Is it because you don't think there is a direct path as your response seems to suggest and it all ends up the same?

reply to post by wildtimes


Okay I understand much better now thanks for the clarification of that.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I understand what you mean. I would hate to see them go I would prefer to see people treat others with respect. Yes, I know thats wishful thinking but we are on a conspiracy site.