Actions Punishable By Death in the Old Testament

the2ofusr1
if the God of heaven appeared to you and said kill that person I think you may just have to go along with Him

'The God of Heaven' has no need for me to kill anyone.
All he has to do is think the person dead, and the person will die.
He doesn't need me to do that.

If God appeared and told me to stone a person to death because she lied about being a virgin ....
Then I would tell him to do his own dirty work, and then I'd tell him He isn't worthy of worship.
Obviously He wouldn't care what I think ... but there it is.
If He's unjust then He doesn't deserve worship.
And making me stone someone to death for a simple lie about sex ... that would be unjust.

windword
The only time the ancient Hebrews were interested in conversion was when they captured slaves, who had to conform to Hebrew laws. The Hebrews were not missionaries, they were captors and destroyers.

Slavery was a common, accepted feature of every economy in those days, it was simply a fact of life. Why would contemporary Hebrews be any different from other societies in that respect?

TheWrightWing

windword
The only time the ancient Hebrews were interested in conversion was when they captured slaves, who had to conform to Hebrew laws. The Hebrews were not missionaries, they were captors and destroyers.

Slavery was a common, accepted feature of every economy in those days, it was simply a fact of life. Why would contemporary Hebrews be any different from other societies in that respect?

They also freed their slaves every 7th year.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You should actually read the Bible before you try to teach others about it. Mosaic Law was only meant to be applied to the Israelites as a sign of God's divine favor so that they would be the most holy people on Earth. As explained many times in the Bible, Mosaic Law was not to be applied to the Gentiles (all non-Israelites) or anyone alive after the crucifixion of Christ. The Israelites were held to a higher standard than any other people on Earth because they had been divinely saved from the Egyptians (pillar of fire, red sea parting, plagues) and God had revealed himself to them (10 commandments, voice of God on Mt. Sinai that all 2 million heard, water flowing from a rock in the desert, etc.) Jesus did not come to abolish mosaic law though, just fulfill it. It is no longer necessary for God's people to follow Mosaic Law to be saved, just to accept Christ's sacrifice for their sins. I say God's people because those who have never been properly introduced to the Scriptures through no fault of their own can still be saved because God's laws are written on our hearts. And as the Bible says, God gives sufficient grace for everyone to be saved, but it is up to us to accept that grace. Luckily God's plan was to offer inclusion into his family to every single human through Christ.

FlyersFan

the2ofusr1
if the God of heaven appeared to you and said kill that person I think you may just have to go along with Him

'The God of Heaven' has no need for me to kill anyone.
All he has to do is think the person dead, and the person will die.
He doesn't need me to do that.

If God appeared and told me to stone a person to death because she lied about being a virgin ....
Then I would tell him to do his own dirty work, and then I'd tell him He isn't worthy of worship.
Obviously He wouldn't care what I think ... but there it is.
If He's unjust then He doesn't deserve worship.
And making me stone someone to death for a simple lie about sex ... that would be unjust.

You are having a hard time grasping how inheritance worked in those days. Political power was often passed down hereditary lines in those times. Your bloodline in many societies dictated what you could and could not do in a culture. It was no small matter to lie about things that resulted in child birth to those people. Not to mention the destruction of the bonds of trust in the most sacred institution of any society.

The biggest flaw in your thinking here is you are trying to overlay current culture on top of one from thousands of years ago in which the entire infrastructure for life was centered around the family and tribal relations.

reply to post by TheWrightWing

Slavery was a common, accepted feature of every economy in those days, it was simply a fact of life. Why would contemporary Hebrews be any different from other societies in that respect?

Shouldn't the creator of the universe and God of the Hebrew people be above the unsavory practices that were common among heathen? Why would the creator of the universe be swayed by peer pressure of vile nations, and their gods, that he openly hated?

The God of the Hebrews was no better than the Gods of those people that he despised.

reply to post by pauladaballa777

Luckily God's plan was to offer inclusion into his family to every single human through Christ.

The plan goes deeper than that. Thru Buddha, Sikhism, Hinduism, Jesus, Sufi, Islam even science now days. . Leaving small pieces of information everywhere that is hidden in plain sight.

The God of the Hebrews was no better than the Gods of those people that he despised.

Lol. There is only one "the existing ONE" (Jehovah). Many human ideas on "the existing ONE" in various religions but only one source.

pauladaballa777
You should actually read the Bible before you try to teach others about it.

You should actually read what I posted before you post.

Jesus did not come to abolish mosaic law though, just fulfill it.

No kidding.

It is no longer necessary for God's people to follow Mosaic Law to be saved, just to accept Christ's sacrifice for their sins.

That's what I've been saying all over the boards.
Here for example
To quote right back at you ...
You should actually read what I've been posting before you try to preach at me.
None of what you posted had ANYTHING to do with the opening post.

NihilistSanta
The biggest flaw in your thinking here is you are trying to overlay current culture on top of one from thousands of years ago in which the entire infrastructure for life was centered around the family and tribal relations.

1 - No flaw in my thinking.
2 - The laws were barbaric.
3 - Your own statement shows that the laws were of human origin and not of God origin. You speak of 'culture' writing the laws ... then that's HUMAN and not GOD. Glad you agree.
4 - The thread is showing what the laws were and that it's a good thing we are outgrowing them. If you disagree and think those death penalty laws would be a good thing nowadays, then I feel bad for you. Really. If you agree that it's a good thing those laws are disappearing .. then you agree with the opening post and I see no point in what you are trying to say.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You can twist my words all you like. I never said I want those punishments but I did sarcastically remark about how the society we now have (the one without those laws enforced) is not really something to uphold.

I am merely refuting your notion that God would not of commanded things to be that way. You are questioning the designs of an omnipotent being to suit your view of the world. Jesus did not say that any of the things of the OT were wrong or that a false God was being worshiped by the Jewish people.

The people of the world develop cultures freely since we have freewill and the lord can instill laws or commandments to those people and they can choose to obey or reject them. Read the other parts of the OT where the Jews are repeatedly punished by God for supplanting his law with local customs and worship. Slavery for the Jews in regards to their use and treatment was less like American southern slavery and more like a work contract with a guaranteed release from the contract after the 6th year.

Well!

The beat goes on.

Some of the people in this thread have been running all across ATS trashing the old testament and the God it contains as tyrannical and whatnot. Others I've not seen before, but they ALL seem to be of the same hive-mind, and so there is no reasoning with them. Reason and logic send them into frenzies.

Some seem not to believe in God at all, while others claim to - but only pay lip service to the notion. They will claim to believe in God, and at the same time reject everything that sets the foundation for any such knowledge. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

Even the ones who claim to believe in God think they know better than It. That, of course, makes them gods in their own minds, little godlings in embryo, which is, I suspect, their reason for believing as they do to begin with. Of what good is "believing" in a God at all if YOU know better than IT does?

Prophets in the OT that these people reject were sent by God to give warning when people were going off the rails. That's why they reject the OT - they WANT to go off the rails, and be their own little godlings. Well, the warnings were given and summarily rejected. The rejection was not as important as giving the warnings in the first place. You see, without warnings, they could not be held accountable - but WITH clear warning given, they could be held accountable for their actions and rejections of God, accountable for thinking they knew better than It.

There comes a time when you just have to let them go their own way, even if that way is off the rails. There is just no way to educate folks who actively refuse education, who refuse to even consider and evaluate what they are told, who refuse to answer questions posed to them because the logical answers would require an adjustment in their thinking. That might ding up their cute little world view.

Even the God they claimed to believe in knew that.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

- Romans 1:28, New International Version

That's out of their New Testament, solely because they reject out of hand anything in the Old Testament, and CLAIM to adhere to the New.

God eventually washes It's hands of them, lets them go on their own little self-destructive way, and so do I. I'm certainly no better than the God they hate as a "tyrant".

windword

Shouldn't the creator of the universe and God of the Hebrew people be above the unsavory practices that were common among heathen?

You may have noticed the lack of slaves owned by Hebrews these days.

Its funny how some folks expect God to behave like a left wing social activist and and stamp their feet because He isn't one.

How intellectual. By which I mean tragically nearsighted.

reply to post by TheWrightWing


" You may have noticed the lack of slaves owned by Hebrews these days. "

I haven't really noticed Zion's lack of slaves...........

reply to post by nenothtu

Some seem not to believe in God at all, while others claim to - but only pay lip service to the notion. They will claim to believe in God, and at the same time reject everything that sets the foundation for any such knowledge. Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.

Why is it so hard for you to understand that some of us don't believe that guy from the Old Testament is who he claims to be? How can a threatening, insecure, jealous deity who can't control his creation and lost 1/3 of his heavenly population in rebellion, be an omnipotent, good and loving god? How can a god that is all bluster and "do as I say, not as I do" or go to Hell, be emulated in any way that is positive? What kind of creator of the universe has enemies?

No, I don't believe in your god. But that's not to say that I don't believe in a spiritual hierarchy and life after death. But I have to really question the mindset of those individuals who apologize for and make excuses for the god of the Old Testament.

And, no I don't believe that guy from the Old Testament had some kind of conversion or something, and came to earth in a man suit named Jesus, and sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself.


I like to think of myself as a normal person, who doesn't believe in heaven or hell, or that virgin births, resurrection and the second coming, walking on water, turning water to wine, etc., are literal events. Or, that the creator of the universe is a deity that required a human sacrifice.

nenothtu
Prophets in the OT that these people reject were sent by God ....

Prove they were really prophets and prove that they really were sent by God.
Unless you can do that, the insults you toss at posters are meaningless ...
Knock it off and address the topic for a change. The posters are not the topic.

windword
Why is it so hard for you to understand that some of us don't believe that guy from the Old Testament is who he claims to be?

There ya' go. Exactly.

Would a loving God really tell people to murder each other by bashing their heads in with rocks ... simply because a person lies about being a virgin? And why would a God tell people to do that and at the same time tell people 'do not kill' (ten commandments) ???

Either 'God' is bipolar ... or some of those 'laws' didn't come from God.

windword

Why is it so hard for you to understand that some of us don't believe that guy from the Old Testament is who he claims to be?

It's not. then again, I don't recall you ever claiming to be a Christian, so why should you believe as they do? I can't really even figure out a reason why you should care what they believe, or try to twist their God into knots.

How can a threatening, insecure, jealous deity who can't control his creation and lost 1/3 of his heavenly population in rebellion, be an omnipotent, good and loving god? How can a god that is all bluster and "do as I say, not as I do" or go to Hell, be emulated in any way that is positive? What kind of creator of the universe has enemies?

My best guess is that it couldn't and shouldn't. Then again, how you choose to view what you don't believe in really isn't my concern.

And, no I don't believe that guy from the Old Testament had some kind of conversion or something, and came to earth in a man suit named Jesus, and sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself.

I don't either. The chain of events as you construct it here is highly improbable.

By which I mean ludicrous.

FlyersFan

Prove they were really prophets and prove that they really were sent by God.

I couldn't prove to YOU that water is wet. You would simply redefine "wet" and argue away, so believe as you will.

Unless you can do that, the insults you toss at posters are meaningless ...

I'm not sure what you are feeling as an "insult", but note that the Bible you don't believe in does say that "the wicked flee when no man pursueth".

No insults intended - but I can't control how you choose to take my words. That reaction would be somewhere inside yourself.

Knock it off and address the topic for a change. The posters are not the topic.

Yes ma'am. As I said earlier, your conscience is no longer my concern.

I'll just bow out of your thread and let you continue preaching to the choir.

FlyersFan

windword
Why is it so hard for you to understand that some of us don't believe that guy from the Old Testament is who he claims to be?

There ya' go. Exactly.

Would a loving God really tell people to murder each other by bashing their heads in with rocks ... simply because a person lies about being a virgin? And why would a God tell people to do that and at the same time tell people 'do not kill' (ten commandments) ???

Either 'God' is bipolar ... or some of those 'laws' didn't come from God.

edit on 12/16/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

The one about lying virgins - yeah, that's Levitical, not from God. I never have been able to figure out what anyone wants with a virgin, anyhow. They have no clue what they are doing, and aren't very good at it.

The other one?

Never was said, but somehow keeps being attributed to God, when NO ONE, neither God nor man, ever said it or wrote it on stone tablets as you quote it here.

You can blame that misconception on your English translators.

Bye now.

reply to post by FlyersFan


So what if He could show you in His infinite wisdom that you were wrong about any subject you may be at odds with Him about ....what then ? would you still hold fast to your human wisdom and not consider a all knowing Gods knowledge ?