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Is free will a fallacy?

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posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:49 AM
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Between lives we are supposedly shown the basic details of our future life. How could this be possible if we have free will? People who have the ability to see the future should not be possible.

Are we manipulated by so-called archons, or is it better described as loosh-collecting "aliens", to mess up so as to feed these non-humans? Sounds improbable, but strange ideas are sometimes accurate.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know I exercised my free will almost never during my first 40 years. After those 40 years ended, I began to change. But even then, I'm not confident I haven't been manipulated by someone or something.

I knew someone who was a serious palm reader. It always sounded like a ridiculous practice, except he was consistently accurate in his readings.

My question is whether we have free will. Yes, in specific situations we can decide to do this or that. But longer term, can we chose a path of free will without outside manipulation. And I'm not talking about earthly media.




posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by droid56
 


I think we have the free will to do anything we can imagine, however what we can imagine is limited in scope by our perspective, our environment and the information we know.

So the good news is if you can get a better perspective, a better environment or gain more information you will have more options - more good news - you can do whatever you can think of and have the gusto to do -

What really floors me is when I get older and realize how limited my world-view was, even though I thought I knew everything in prior days, I realize later how clueless I had been.

Sometimes it is actually for the worse. I have gone through terrible trauma and it makes me much less likely to try new things or open up to people.

-----

And speaking of which - I am 28 now and I highly suspect that most of my decisions are being almost entirely influenced by others as I have a hard time standing up for myself. Hopefully that changes as I gain confidence and stability economically.

When Aristotle mentions private property as being necessary for altruism to happen, I can see what he means. I don't feel safe enough to help others until my bases are covered, which they are not, and I've been working on it for some time.
edit on 15amSun, 15 Dec 2013 01:02:10 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by droid56
 


Also, yes there has to be free will, or else we wouldn't need a system of laws to influence behavior

And if that doesn't convince you, people break those laws, too!
And if that doesn't convince you, people even make those laws!
edit on 15amSun, 15 Dec 2013 01:04:23 -0600kbamkAmerica/Chicago by darkbake because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 01:08 AM
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A system of laws can effect our behaviour, but I am thinking about a bigger picture of influence.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 01:13 AM
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reply to post by droid56
 



Between lives we are supposedly shown the basic details of our future life.


It most likely is a case of......

"Barry, for the next 87.4263 years, as per this agreement right here that you signed, this will be your experience - watch carefully because you made every decision without outside manipulation...Oh and when we arrive, you won't remember any of it - OK, put your seatbelt on, it's about to get bumpy".

Guess I will find out about 5mins after my last breath.......



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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reply to post by droid56
 


Its interesting to note the role perception plays in the whole affair. Suppose you have a neighbor, who always waters her garden at 3pm, every day. You note this to you friends, and it continues. She appears to have no free will about the matter. Until, one day, you tell her she always does this. Upset, she starts watering her garden at different times during the day to prove you wrong. So her behaviour was totally predictable until you told her.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 02:53 AM
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droid56
Are we manipulated by so-called archons.

No. Before being born, Yahushua shows every lost spirit a perfect path that they must follow to be able to return to Him.
Every person has millions of choices in their life. They can either turn towards Him or away from Him.

The archons are only there to function as temptation away from God. Ink bowl visions are a perfect example of this where a single abstract picture can summerise (from experience) a life span of 42 years.


I'm not confident I haven't been manipulated by someone or something.

Your path before you were born was chosen by your spirit.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 04:00 AM
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Rapha
Every person has millions of choices in their life. They can either turn towards Him or away from Him.

A 'person' thinks it has to choose so is always uncertain, confused - a 'person' deliberates and is unsure.
When it is realized that the present is just happening and no one but God is doing it then the 'person' no longer is confused - there is faith because it is seen that all is being done on earth as it is in heaven.

There is freewill but there is nothing individual.
Gods will is free - it is the unconditional arising of presence - this is love.


edit on 15-12-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 04:20 AM
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4 RedHaho(I Greet You),
I was just in a discussion about "Free Will" and was very interesting. There was 8 of us in the beginning and from various backgrounds. A few stated that human beings are the only beings with free will or free choice.

The sides were quickly drawn, some took the religious attitude, a few argued points to some biologist's journal in some science article and the rest, like myself tried to be neutral.

The religious individuals pointed out that God made us in his image and God saw fit to create spiritual laws governed by Holy Scriptures of right and wrong. Living the best one can is our own decision to enlightenment and tranquility and to know whats best for ourselves. God knows best and those that believe have the faith in God's Judgement of our actions through God's actions(to perfect ourselves in God's image).

The educated individuals stated that animals and plants behaved by the mere make up of their physical being, and the stimuli from the environment made or decided their actions. Free will has the illusion of our consciousness and unconsciousness minds into thinking we have a responsibility to our societies and ourselves and we control our will. If non human beings act as such why not us.

The rest explained that life is filled with many paths or choices that we take to make the right decision(s) for the betterment of each individual for we are not all the same, plants, animals, and human beings. To make the the right choice and live with them choices are our own individual rights by trial and error. It is so easy to not own our actions whether it be good or bad but to blame anything else is like saying its okay all we have to do is accept a belief in the consortium of the mass or believe that we are destined to evolve into a higher status of being because of our DNA and environment.

No doubt from the beginning we human beings have thought, what make us unique.
edit on 15-12-2013 by chachonee because: changed a word of "or" to "our" cause my computer's letter U is lacking on my keyboard.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 04:31 AM
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chachonee
No doubt from the beginning we human beings have thought, what make us unique.

Just because there are words arising does not mean that there is someone putting the words there.
The words are no different from the sound of a car going past.

Is there anyone there who can choose the next thought?



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 04:38 AM
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chachonee
To make the the right choice and live with them choices are our own individual rights by trial and error.

How can one know whether it was the right or wrong choice? Once it has happened no one can do it again a different way - the mind likes to play different scenarios and likes to tell you about 'right and wrong'.

What is happening is happening - it is always too late.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 04:39 AM
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reply to post by Itisnowagain
 


Hello "Itisnowagain"
My own opinion is that for me words fall short of my actions and could spend a lifetime thinking about it. I have little lives that depend on me, so to act weighs more. By my children and grandchildren watching my actions, maybe they can better themselves and words are easily forgotten.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 05:20 AM
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This has to be the third or fourth time this issue has been raised over the last two weeks.


If you're that interested, go to University and study Philosophy 1.

If you're studying Philosophy 1, and you're here for some easy answers, you're not going to find them.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by droid56
 


If you mix grape juice and apple juice in a single glass, you can never decrease or eliminate the amount of grape juice you mixed in with the apple juice in that glass. You can add more apple juice, and dilute the impact of the grape juice within the resulting mixture. Maybe you can even add enough apple juice to make the mixture look and taste as if the grape juice had never been added to the mixture, but the truth is that the amount of grape juice will always remain the same.

What a person does becomes integral to who that person is. What a person thinks becomes integral to who that person is. What a person believes becomes integral to who that person is. This is because what the mind allows the brain to focus on as fundamental and (as a result) base its next burst of generated intellectual response on as its general definition of daily life, becomes increasingly integral to the developing Identity of the human mind. With each added instance of responding in type, the prevailing personality "mixture" becomes harder and harder to dilute with offsetting qualities and/or predilection choices.

What you create of yourself will always limit your available range of free will choices. As you get older, the intellect and personality precedent that you've established becomes harder and harder to deviate from. It's called historical precedent, and it's the basis of all natural laws. That said, you always have the freedom that a given circumstance and realistic capacity allows you. It's rare that anyone ever acts against established precedent, but it's happened, so it's not impossible.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 07:45 AM
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NorEaster
What you create of yourself will always limit your available range of free will choices.

Does what you are need creating by you?
Are you not regardless?

Only words describing what you think you are is what you think you are.
What are you prior to any thought?

Are you something becoming something more?
Or are you nothing seeing what is arising presently? The present is continually appearing different - what knows this?
Can presence become more?
edit on 15-12-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 07:55 AM
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reply to post by NorEaster
 


Who chose to mix the apple and grape juice in the first place?



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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ketsuko
reply to post by NorEaster
 


Who chose to mix the apple and grape juice in the first place?


It's an analogy. I guess I assumed that this would be obvious. Sorry about that.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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If you mix grape juice and apple juice in a single glass, you can never decrease or eliminate the amount of grape juice you mixed in with the apple juice in that glass.
reply to post by NorEaster
 


No I go that it was an analogy, but I was wondering who mixed the grape and apple juice. Who is the "you" we are talking about? Adding the "you" implies some control of the mixing. Was that intended or important?

edit on 15-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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Itisnowagain

NorEaster
What you create of yourself will always limit your available range of free will choices.

Does what you are need creating by you?
Are you not regardless?


You create yourself by default. You can try to affect this default process (the self help publishing industry makes billions on this effort) but it's ongoing as long as your brain is spitting out response generations.


Only words describing what you think you are is what you think you are.
What are you prior to any thought?


Prior to your brain going online, you aren't. Not at all.


Are you something becoming something more?


You are a change/event trajectory that is creating a permanently existent, consciously aware, sentient/sapient being as a default ramification of the instant-to-instant struggle to maintain whole system material survival. Until that change/event trajectory initiated, you didn't exist at all.


Or are you nothing seeing what is arising presently?


I don't think that's a functional sentence, let alone a question that's actually expecting to be answered.


The present is continually appearing different - what knows this?


The present is endlessly being replaced by the next quantum unit of present. Now replacing Now at our universal environment's Unit Rate of Change (URC). As perception-centric beings, we can never actually experience this very specific and uniform progression. This is because the "burst rate" of brain-generated conscious awareness is occurring at a slower rate than the environmental URC. It's in quantized sync with the URC, but much slower. The facts concerning all of this exist within this universal environment's residual Informational Continuum (some call this the Akashic Records), and it's information that is freely available to whomever is capable of accessing it.


Can presence become more?


Presence is an aspect of existence, and existence is determined by the possession of inimitable identity. If something exists then it possesses presence. Presence is a property. It is what it is. Why do you try to use English words in ways that needlessly distort their definition? Make up a word for whatever it is that you're trying to refer to.

*note* I probably won't indulge you if you persist in grammatical convolutions that are clearly designed to obfuscate the points you are trying to make or defend. You and I have been through this before.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 08:52 AM
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ketsuko


If you mix grape juice and apple juice in a single glass, you can never decrease or eliminate the amount of grape juice you mixed in with the apple juice in that glass.
reply to post by NorEaster
 


No I go that it was an analogy, but I was wondering who mixed the grape and apple juice. Who is the "you" we are talking about? Adding the "you" implies some control of the mixing. Was that intended or important?

edit on 15-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)


Your brain adds whatever is added to the resulting mixture that is you. It does this as it's ensuring the material survival of your body, as well as its own survival. As you are being created, the developing you is actually engaged in affecting how your brain continues to add to the resulting mixture (that is you) being further developed and defined. We notice this process in others that we deal with a lot, and we call it personality development. This is all pretty well-established stuff.
edit on 12/15/2013 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)



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