Spirituality as Costume

daskakik
reply to post by BDBinc

 

So you want to force us to only use your defenition of spirituality even though the definition offered by the OP fits well within the context of the thread.

You can't even be bothered to try to understand how it is being used in this thread.

Not much point in continuing down this path.

Great.
But I have forced no definition on you, you unquestioningly accepted the OP's definition of Hitler's spirituality ( and your spirituality) in the "context of the thread".

I am still waiting for the OP to tell me what Hitler's "higher truth" was.
I do hope the OP doesn't really believe that Hitler's opinion(display of opinion) is a "higher truth".

Hitler is never quoted saying that his opinion (or display of opinion) was his spirituality.
It begs the question why would the OP try to speak for Hitler and say that Hitler's opinion is Hitler's spirituality .
Maybe, as he said in his post, it is to try to tarnish spirituality by making associations with Hitler.

Aphorism
It was Hitler's higher truth. Not mine. He talked about spiritual matters and thought it was a "higher truth", just like you do.

What 'truth' was Hitler promoting?
It doesn't appear to be unity.
Hitler promoted Germany and he was not even German.

reply to post by BDBinc

I was just trying to explain the context in which the OP was using the word. You spent quite a few posts arguing without understanding what the OP was saying.

Now that it has been cleared up your trying to shift the argument into one about knowing what Hitler thought because you still can't seem to grasp the idea that it isn't about any one person's "spirituality" but rather how humans in general come to develop ideals which they deem more important or higher truths which then become the basis for religious/spiritual/moral convictions.

Hitler was just an example of how he, who most see as a monster, was convinced that he was doing the right thing.

ETA: And, I guess the point of the thread is that the same goes for everyone else, no matter how convinced they are.

reply to post by daskakik


I'm glad someone understand. I didn't think it was that difficult, but apparently it is.

daskakik
reply to post by BDBinc

 

I was just trying to explain the context in which the OP was using the word. You spent quite a few posts arguing without understanding what the OP was saying.

Now that it has been cleared up your trying to shift the argument into one about knowing what Hitler thought because you still can't seem to grasp the idea that it isn't about any one person's "spirituality" but rather how humans in general come to develop ideals which they deem more important or higher truths which then become the basis for religious/spiritual/moral convictions.

Hitler was just an example of how he, who most see as a monster, was convinced that he was doing the right thing.

ETA: And, I guess the point of the thread is that the same goes for everyone else, no matter how convinced they are.

edit on 28-12-2013 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

The thread was about 'spirituality as a costume' and it proposed that one's brand of opinion or display of opinion IS defined as one's spirituality.
It tells us that Hitler's opinion was his spirituality yet how is it possible for the OP to speak for Hitler on what Hitler' spirituality was?
As I said this is a crazy assumption as Hitler was never quoted as saying " my opinion is my spirituality" .
Hitler's opinion and display of his opinion was not spirituality and he didn't use spirituality as a costume.

Ideals are not spirituality.
Hitler never said he was acting on his spirituality, he just acted on his ideas/opinions, the post has nothing to do with spirituality. Its just a post about the OP saying he thinks Hitler's and his opinions are their spirituality.
Why should the OP claim for Hitler that Hitler's brand of opinion and display of opinion was Hitler's spirituality, that an opinion is spirituality?

reply to post by BDBinc

You still don't get it and it seems the OP and I can't make it any clearer.

Maybe have a re-read and try not to knee-jerk when you see the words Hitler and spirituality.

People may not say my opinion is my spirituality but their spirituality may be just a matter of opinion.

That's it in a nutshell.

reply to post by BDBinc

spiritual |ˈspiriCHo͞oəl|
adjective
1 of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things: I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare | the spiritual values of life.
• (of a person) not concerned with material values or pursuits.
2 of or relating to religion or religious belief: the tribe's spiritual leader.

Hitler was concerned with immaterial things, what you call "higher truths", as opposed to material or physical things, ie. human beings, the jews, the gypsies, homosexuals. He saw an ideal jew before he say any real ones. He saw an ideal race before he saw any real ones. Deutschland Deutschland Über Alles. Germany Germany above all. "Higher Truths". Immaterial truths. Immaterial values. Immaterial Pursuits. Non-existent truths. Spirituality.

daskakik
reply to post by BDBinc

 

You still don't get it and it seems the OP and I can't make it any clearer.

Maybe have a re-read and try not to knee-jerk when you see the words Hitler and spirituality.

People may not say my opinion is my spirituality but their spirituality may be just a matter of opinion.

That's it in a nutshell.

Being a nutty idea it should be in a nutshell.
Only one problem with that nut and that is opinion is not spirituality.
Opinion is opinion not spirituality.

Aphorism
reply to post by BDBinc

 

spiritual |ˈspiriCHo͞oəl|
adjective
1 of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things: I'm responsible for his spiritual welfare | the spiritual values of life.
• (of a person) not concerned with material values or pursuits.
2 of or relating to religion or religious belief: the tribe's spiritual leader.

Hitler was concerned with immaterial things, what you call "higher truths", as opposed to material or physical things, ie. human beings, the jews, the gypsies, homosexuals. He saw an ideal jew before he say any real ones. He saw an ideal race before he saw any real ones. Deutschland Deutschland Über Alles. Germany Germany above all. "Higher Truths". Immaterial truths. Immaterial values. Immaterial Pursuits. Non-existent truths. Spirituality.

What were Hitlers higher truths that you speak of?
Germany is physical and material, so are homosexuals, disabled people, polish people and jews so he concerned himself with the material things.
That you see Hitler's opinion as "higher truths" might be a concern to some.

BDBinc
Only one problem with that nut and that is opinion is not spirituality.
Opinion is opinion not spirituality.

Not according to your definition but that is not the one being used here.

Honestly, your just being antagonistic.

daskakik

BDBinc
Only one problem with that nut and that is opinion is not spirituality.
Opinion is opinion not spirituality.

Not according to your definition but that is not the one being used here.

Honestly, your just being antagonistic.

I oppose Hitler's display of his opinion being called his spirituality.

Sorry but I must still oppose you as I disagree with the OP (& you), clearly there was no "higher truth" in killing homosexual people, disabled people, Polish or Jewish people .
The OP got confused and thought Hitler's brand of opinion was his spirituality, don't feel bad no shame in being confused by Hitler's opinion & display of opinion. History says Hitler confused most of a country( some also worshipped him and inflated his opinion to "higher truth").

Honestly.

BDBinc
I oppose Hitler's display of his opinion being called his spirituality.

Because you want to apply your definition of spirituality to the discussion but it doesn't apply.

If you want to discuss what spirituality means to you then start another thread. If you want to discuss the topic of the OP then be an adult and accept the context in which the word is being used here.

daskakik

BDBinc
I oppose Hitler's display of his opinion being called his spirituality.

Because you want to apply your definition of spirituality to the discussion but it doesn't apply.

Those who have not experienced the mystical will define spirituality their own way.

According to Waaijman, the traditional meaning of spirituality is a process of re-formation which "aims to recover the original shape of man, the image of God.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by BDBinc

What were Hitlers higher truths that you speak of?

Here's a few quotes for your perusal.

I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Thus my faith grew that my beautiful dream for the future would become reality after all, even though this might require long years.

The anti-Semitism of the new movement was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.

...a man does not die for business, but for ideals.

A pure Germany. Judaism and Communism were the cause of the world's ills. The destiny of the German people. The weak should be eradicated to make room for the pure. And the list goes on and on. He has a whole book of them. His "higher truths" are simply his opinions, just like yours are your opinions.

What are your higher truths?

Germany is physical and material

But Germany's destiny isn't. A pure Germany isn't. A physical and material Germany has Jews, homosexuals and Poles. A pure Germany, an arian Germany, isn't at all a material fact.

so are homosexuals,

But their weakness isn't. Nor is their burden on society. They were seen as vermin, to be eradicated as rats. Do you see this as a material fact?

disabled people

But their weakness isn't. Nor is their burden on society. They were seen as vermin, to be eradicated as rats. Do you see this as a material fact?

polish people and jews so he concerned himself with the material things.

But their weakness isn't. Nor is their burden on society. They were seen as vermin, to be eradicated as rats. Do you see this as a material fact? Do you agree these are a physical facts about Jews and Poles?

That you see Hitler's opinion as "higher truths" might be a concern to some.

That you see them as material facts might be a concern to most. What you call "Higher truths" are but idealistic convictions believed or hoped to be true. There are no higher or lower truths. They are only declarations of convictions.

What are your higher truths?

reply to post by Aphorism

You are really confused about the definition of 'spiritual'.
All you have posted above is ideas about how to make things better - better for who though?
You really should stop comparing stuff you have not even taken the time to listen to.
If one is hoping for better then one has not realized spirit. If one is relying on the future to improve 'things', then one is selling 'spiritual' in the wrong context. Hitler (if he tried to) was using the word spirit in the wrong context - religion is not spirit. Agreed, Hitler was trying to 'form' a religion which separated Germany from others.
It is obvious here that this is just another one of your 'superior trolling threads'. I wouldn't want to believe that you are that ignorant really - it's a façade. Seeking emotional reaction, picking a label and seeing what you can catch - it's a good game.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

You are really confused about the definition of 'spiritual'.
All you have posted above is ideas about how to make things better - better for who though?
You really should stop comparing stuff you have not even taken the time to listen to.
If one is hoping for better then one has not realized spirit. If one is relying on the future to improve 'things', then one is selling 'spiritual' in the wrong context. Hitler (if he tried to) was using the word spirit in the wrong context - religion is not spirit. Agreed, Hitler was trying to 'form' a religion which separated Germany from others.
It is obvious here that this is just another one of your 'superior trolling threads'. I wouldn't want to believe that you are that ignorant really - it's a façade. Seeking emotional reaction, picking a label and seeing what you can catch - it's a good game.

Wasn't it you who said it was about destroying ideas? Yet when someone does it to your ideas, you recoil in horror, get angry, and fight tooth and nail to keep them alive? Or am I not like Osho enough to have that right? My ideas are not your ideas. Nothing is harmed by my speaking.

Your spirituality is in the right context but mine is in the wrong. Of course, sounds about right. Would it be better if we sat around talking about good feelings in a spiritual circle jerk? We can flag and star each other based on how good we make each other feel. Let's talk about nothing and stroke each other's spiritual egos. Which is the facade? There are plenty of those threads for you to participate in.

You don't see the meaningful spiritual relationship we have. We learn together. We are talking about important things, and practicing wisdom. But let's just end our philosophizing together. You're right, I'm wrong—always have been. You win. Enjoy it. You deserve it.

reply to post by Aphorism


It is a good game - very entertaining.

Aphorism
reply to post by BDBinc

 

What were Hitlers higher truths that you speak of?

Here's a few quotes for your perusal.

I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Thus my faith grew that my beautiful dream for the future would become reality after all, even though this might require long years.

The anti-Semitism of the new movement was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.

...a man does not die for business, but for ideals.

A pure Germany. Judaism and Communism were the cause of the world's ills. The destiny of the German people. The weak should be eradicated to make room for the pure. And the list goes on and on. He has a whole book of them. His "higher truths" are simply his opinions, just like yours are your opinions.

What are your higher truths?

Germany is physical and material

But Germany's destiny isn't. A pure Germany isn't. A physical and material Germany has Jews, homosexuals and Poles. A pure Germany, an arian Germany, isn't at all a material fact.

so are homosexuals,

But their weakness isn't. Nor is their burden on society. They were seen as vermin, to be eradicated as rats. Do you see this as a material fact?

disabled people

But their weakness isn't. Nor is their burden on society. They were seen as vermin, to be eradicated as rats. Do you see this as a material fact?

polish people and jews so he concerned himself with the material things.

But their weakness isn't. Nor is their burden on society. They were seen as vermin, to be eradicated as rats. Do you see this as a material fact? Do you agree these are a physical facts about Jews and Poles?

That you see Hitler's opinion as "higher truths" might be a concern to some.

That you see them as material facts might be a concern to most. What you call "Higher truths" are but idealistic convictions believed or hoped to be true. There are no higher or lower truths. They are only declarations of convictions.

What are your higher truths?

Unlike you I don't see Hitler's opinion as fact.
Thats why I argue that they are just Hitler's opinion.

Quoting Hitler's opinion that homosexual, jewish and polish people are vermin/burdens to be eradicated as rats as higher truth not just an opinion of an insane man makes no sense to me.
Germany, homosexual people, disabled people, jewish people, polish people are material (I had to say that again as you are misquoting me) their torture and eradication was a material display you only think it was spirituality .

Hitler never once said in the quotes "my opinion is my spirituality" ( still don't know how you speak for him on his spirituality).
In this post, that is declaring your opinion to be your spirituality, you need not have associated yourself with Hitler .
Declarations of opinion is not spirituality.

daskakik

BDBinc
I oppose Hitler's display of his opinion being called his spirituality.

Because you want to apply your definition of spirituality to the discussion but it doesn't apply.

If you want to discuss what spirituality means to you then start another thread. If you want to discuss the topic of the OP then be an adult and accept the context in which the word is being used here.

No I don't have to accept Hitler's opinion as spirituality.
The OP's topic is that he believes his opinion is a higher truth.

Itisnowagain
Those who have not experienced the mystical will define spirituality their own way.

I swear I can't see what you and BDBinc are arguing about because that is pretty much what the OP is saying.

ETA: Although he also adds that anyone who has experienced the mystical can also be defining spirituality in their own way as well.