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Obama Administration Spent $4.5 Billion on State Healthcare Websites

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posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 



With all do respect Tenth. I don't live in Canada.


So you willfully ignore successful public programs because they didn't get made in your country?


I believe in a free market system. That doesn't mean Free stuff for people. Healthcare is a corporate product just like anything else.


And I pay for it via my taxes every week. Same as you would to the private company who issues your policy. The only difference being that I actually KNOW for a fact that the government isn't going to 'screw up' my coverage and I won't be able to get services rendered.


I don't want my government telling me what corporate products I 'need'.


They don't. You NEED healthcare. Everybody does. Only makes sense to have a single payer system when the industry that's grown out of the private sector is corrupt and does anything it can to raise costs to the end consumer, while maximizing profits on their end by not fulfilling claims.


The single payer crapola is just another means of control to hang over peoples heads, and most people who want that use demagoguery to villify anyone who thinks otherwise.


That doesn't make any sense at all. How could the government hold my healthcare over my head? I actually have MORE recourse than you do in your market since I paid directly to the government, therefore they have a huge legal obligation to service my needs when I see fit.

Do I seem like I'm trying to villify you for your thoughts and opinions? No. I'm simply saying that the single payer system, if maintained and setup properly, works BETTER than the private market. Even the corporations involved make money. Look at Blue Cross here in Canada.

You're at the whim of the private sector. Dirty place to be as most people seem to understand.


Besides Canada doesn't have anywhere near the population of the US does.


Yeah because things don't scale in real life or anything....

Like I said, it's not perfect. Better than what you guys have though.

~Tenth




posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Combine that amount to the amount they will spend for the "Single Payer" system! That was their goal all along......

Hear that giant sucking sound?



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 



America is just not structured to accept single-payer.


That's like saying I can't make an intersection here because the street is a bit too far off.

Anything can be done or set up to be a certain way.


My health is no longer my responsibility. My health is now under the control of the state. So the state can make determinations as to my salt intake, my smoking, my drinking, my diet.


See though. This scenario doesn't exist in my Country with a single payer system, so why would it in yours?

Why would it become harder and be this huge problem? Because you all let it, that's why.

I get it, you all are afraid of government, it's fine, you really should be in the US.

But don't just rail against something as being the end all, be all, when you've never tried, nor even attempted to explore the ramifications both economically and socially.

Healthcare is like one of the only things that I'm happy to pay higher taxes for because it's important.

Without that, my family would be living on the streets trust me.

It's about how you create and then manage the program, not about the program being a bad idea in it's entirety.

~Tenth



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 04:59 PM
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tothetenthpower
reply to post by beezzer
 



America is just not structured to accept single-payer.


That's like saying I can't make an intersection here because the street is a bit too far off.

Anything can be done or set up to be a certain way.


My health is no longer my responsibility. My health is now under the control of the state. So the state can make determinations as to my salt intake, my smoking, my drinking, my diet.


See though. This scenario doesn't exist in my Country with a single payer system, so why would it in yours?

Why would it become harder and be this huge problem? Because you all let it, that's why.

I get it, you all are afraid of government, it's fine, you really should be in the US.

But don't just rail against something as being the end all, be all, when you've never tried, nor even attempted to explore the ramifications both economically and socially.

Healthcare is like one of the only things that I'm happy to pay higher taxes for because it's important.

Without that, my family would be living on the streets trust me.

It's about how you create and then manage the program, not about the program being a bad idea in it's entirety.

~Tenth



But Tenth, that's the point! Kudos for bringing it up. In Canada, your leadership has ethics, values, morals.

Ours, sadly, doesn't. And that goes across the spectrum.

Look at Bloomberg in New York! See the over-reach? No trans fats. No salt. No giant sodas. Taxes on cigarettes that are ridiculous!

Our politicians are idiots. They will abuse the system. They will over-step their authority.

The only darned thing that has kept them in check is our freedoms to choose.

Well, that's gone now!



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 





So you willfully ignore successful public programs because they didn't get made in your country?


That is exactly what I am talking about with demagoguery. There is no one who is denied healthcare in this country.

The entire argument is over nothing but who pays for it, and the vast majority thinks someone else should be paying.

Which is a problem with all government programs in the grand ole US of A.

First off people are paying little in nothing in that creates the funds necessary.

Secondly those people are getting more out that they ever paid in.

That creates debt.

As people get older the cost of healthcare increases.

As more money is printed out of thin air creates inflation.

More people are added to the system.

All government programs can be summed up as the law of diminishing returns. That is how the government operates.

Champagne wishes and caviar dreams on a walmart paycheck, and I have said this before.

I don't want to pay walmart prices for my healthcare.




And I pay for it via my taxes every week. Same as you would to the private company who issues your policy. T


Actually the difference between government run healthcare and private is:

Young people going decades without ever using it to pay for those who are. That creates the revenue.

Contrast:

Government run healthcare care as we have seen with the 1 trillion dollar spending per year. That is current 'insuring' over 100+, million Americans.

Who are paying little or nothing, Getting those benefits without returning back.




I actually KNOW for a fact that the government isn't going to 'screw up' my coverage and I won't be able to get services rendered.


Yeah well I know for a fact my government destroys everything it touches. That is a good damn reason I call the Us government the biggest weapon of mass destruction the world has ever seen.

I don't want jack from them other than to be left alone.




They don't. You NEED healthcare


I do?

Then prey tell wonder I went over 30 years without that so called need. Besides every employer I have ever had offered it.




That doesn't make any sense at all.


Makes perfect sense. Everyone has heard of politics, and if you don't support government programs that means 'I hate people'. etc.




Do I seem like I'm trying to villify you for your thoughts and opinions?


As long has you have been on ATS, and read the political threads. Rather sure you have seen what was meant there.




ike I said, it's not perfect. Better than what you guys have though.


True you don't have democrats and republicans there.
edit on 14-12-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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neo96
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


With all do respect Tenth. I don't live in Canada.

I believe in a free market system. That doesn't mean Free stuff for people. Healthcare is a corporate product just like anything else.

I don't want my government telling me what corporate products I 'need'.

The single payer crapola is just another means of control to hang over peoples heads, and most people who want that use demagoguery to villify anyone who thinks otherwise.

Besides Canada doesn't have anywhere near the population of the US does.


Well if you guys are happy with haveing some oof the the worst healthcare in the developed world more power to you.

Just google were the US stands in world wide healthcare.....

Not that obamacares any better..... Think your 46th now, bet that will drop to 54 soon.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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neo96
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


With all do respect Tenth. I don't live in Canada.

I believe in a free market system. That doesn't mean Free stuff for people. Healthcare is a corporate product just like anything else.

I don't want my government telling me what corporate products I 'need'.

The single payer crapola is just another means of control to hang over peoples heads, and most people who want that use demagoguery to villify anyone who thinks otherwise.

Besides Canada doesn't have anywhere near the population of the US does.


Well if you guys are happy with haveing some oof the the worst healthcare in the developed world more power to you.

Just google were the US stands in world wide healthcare.....

Not that obamacares any better..... Think your 46th now, bet that will drop to 54 soon.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:10 PM
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neo96


If anything medicaid, and medicare need to be done away with since it costs over 1 trillion dollars, and 'insures' over 100+ million Americans.


And what happens to the poor and old unable to afford healthcare? Goodbye die quietly?

You may as well put a bullet in there heads yourself.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


And so the people who are running this would be running a single payer.

Explain to me how that would be any better.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:11 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 





Well if you guys are happy with haveing some oof the the worst healthcare in the developed world more power to you.


Read that on the internets ?

Why yes anything that people have to pay for is obviously 'the worst'.

Blah.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:12 PM
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crazyewok

neo96


If anything medicaid, and medicare need to be done away with since it costs over 1 trillion dollars, and 'insures' over 100+ million Americans.


And what happens to the poor and old unable to afford healthcare? Goodbye die quietly?

You may as well put a bullet in there heads yourself.


Hears a thought:

Go take care of them instead of outsourcing to a government. Then pat themselves on the back thinking they give a crap about their 'fellow man'.

That is as lame as it gets.

Great example of demagoguery that was talked about earlier.

IF someone doesn't support robbing from the rich and 'give' to the have nots.

That means they 'hate people' and 'want them to die'.
edit on 14-12-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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sheepslayer247
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


I don't believe that was/is the goal. If the US goes to a single-payer system, it would effectively leave the insurance companies high and dry. That is not and would not be acceptable in the pro-corporate fascist world of politics and business.

A single-payer system would be the best way to go, but those in charge and those that would be effected will do everything they can to make sure it does not come about.




Oh, no, they never intended this to be a Trojan Horse to single payer.

The only thing they didn't intend was for this to collapse on them so quickly. That's what they did too well. People remember that Obamacare is the reason this is happening. They wanted a 10 to 15 year death spiral, not an instantaneous one like they are getting.

And single payer is not the answer. Britain's NHS is a mess that employs more people than our own military. What kind of a nightmare bureaucracy would our own answer to it create? How on earth do you ever propose to pay for that?

You can't. Not even if we completely axed the military.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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neo96

I do?

Then prey tell wonder I went over 30 years without that so called need. Besides every employer I have ev


I always have a good laugh at this argument.

Cause tomorrow you could very well struck with Cancer. Infact you have a 1 in 3 chance.

You could have a stroke or heart attack.

You could be shot or stabbed.

Anything!

And I garentee you will have to go to a hospitalat least once in your life, everybody does. If you dont? Well can I have a sample of your DNA? You know liveing for ever in 100% perfcet health would change the wolrd



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by ketsuko
 


Think they did want it to collapse like it did. For a parties mantra of never letting a 'good crisis' go to waste.

That is what they do:

Create problems so they can offer 'solutions'.

Single payer/socialized medicine'.

Canada and the UK is what they want.

Hell they are never responsible for anything they ever do. Always someone else.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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neo96



Read that on the internets ?

Why yes anything that people have to pay for is obviously 'the worst'.

Blah.


Stop acting so dense. Your skilled in missing the point.

No these are real studies and surveys that evaluate quality of care, life expectancy and value for money.



edit on 14-12-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Exactly so. Right now any corporate power in this country still depends on both the law and the willingness of politicians to play for pay. If those two things ever fall through, then they'll have the same luck they're having in places like Venezuela and Argentina.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by crazyewok
 


Failed reading comprehension?

So I pay 30 years of premiums that go to someone else. and that 'fateful' day who pays for me?

As it stands there aren't going to be too many.

And the government will decide my level of 'care'.

Oh damn I can't wait!



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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neo96
[

Hears a thought:

Go take care of them instead of outsourcing to a government. Then pat themselves on the back thinking they give a crap about their 'fellow man'.

Thsi is the problem.

I dont have the money to pay for someones $500,000 course of Chemo. I would need a few thousand to donate with me.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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crazyewok

neo96



Read that on the internets ?

Why yes anything that people have to pay for is obviously 'the worst'.

Blah.


Stop acting so dense. Your skilled in missing the point.

No these are real studies and surveys that evaluate quality of care, life expectancy and value for money.



edit on 14-12-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



I agree some people need to stop being so dense.

Like the proponets of other countries healthcare systems



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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crazyewok

neo96
[

Hears a thought:

Go take care of them instead of outsourcing to a government. Then pat themselves on the back thinking they give a crap about their 'fellow man'.

Thsi is the problem.

I dont have the money to pay for someones $500,000 course of Chemo. I would need a few thousand to donate with me.


So it is about money.

Thanks for validating an earlier point.

Its all about the money and someone elses.



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