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Why Do Conservatives Hate Pope Francis So Much ?

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posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 04:42 AM
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Pope Francis one more time surprises everyone by praying for prophecy. It is hardly imaginable what he will bring forward tomorrow, and that is good. Because he was chosen to lead, not vice versus.

Here is some excerpt of his daily homily on Dec 16:


“Lord, free your people from a spirit of clericalism and aid them with a spirit of prophecy,” Pope Francis prayed.

Pope Francis said that, in the Gospel, those who met Christ with a spirit of prophecy welcomed him as the Messiah, but without it, “the void that is left is occupied by clericalism; and it is this clericalism that asks Jesus, ‘By what authority do you do these things? By what law?’”

He added that the Pharisees who questioned the authority of Christ “did not understand the prophecies. They had forgotten the promise. They did not know how to read the signs of the times; they had neither penetrating sight nor hearing of the word of God: They only had authority.”
A prophet is one who “has in his heart the promise of God,” explained the Holy Father. “He lives it, he remembers it, [and] he repeats it.”

Read more: www.ncregister.com...




posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 04:44 AM
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2012newstart

colbe

2012newstart

colbe


Conservative, traditional Catholics who love the Latin Mass are ATTACKED often by fallen away Catholics and the rest, ungodly political liberals, non-Catholic Christians who are brought up denying, protesting the faith and non-Christians.

Read 2012newstart's threads, they are all very very negative about the faith, Roman Catholicism.

Why promote instead, UFOs and aliens as being good for who knows what reason.


I do not agree with the poster Colbe that my threads are "very, very negative" about the Roman Catholic faith and church. Indeed I put some controversial historical and contemporary facts that still await their answers. As why for example the renamed inquisition office should exist and exert rulings in 21st century, after we have the most inglorious pages of the Catholic church connected exactly with that office.

I believe many of these questions will be properly addressed by the reform of pope Francis. Including the question how to deal with extraterrestrial beings already residing on Earth (shall we baptize them for instance). I discuss that issue in length in one of my top threads (click on the profile). A question very important if someone wants to feed 7 billion people that only grow in numbers. If someone wants to cure diseases. And not only to assure the next generation catholics having privilege to be born in US or EU will have good health coverage and education. The Church is the church of the poor, since may be 800 million members of Catholic church live in misery and in Third world countries.

One cannot possibly resolve world's outstanding social and economic injustice with methods and also tech of early 20th century. New methods including new AVAILABLE technologies are needed to feed the hungry and cure the sick. Because we are not miracle makers as Jesus was.
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


There is the one faith, given to the world by the Church Christ established, Roman Catholicism, the RCC. Your "inquisition" protest in this reply isn't a slam of the faith, you love Roman Catholicism.



I appreciate of your some kind of endorsement of my love to Roman catholicism, at that particular post. But I don't need however that exactly. Rather your discussion on the topic.

So what is your intake on conservatives' view inside the church? Do you think they will revolt if the pope and leading cardinals take a more liberal approach to a number of questions? Thanks in advance for your answer, I don't intend to cover all your words with mine.



Oh, thanks...

I was using sarcasm. You can't stay fallen away forever 2012newstart.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:05 AM
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The Catholics (and others) should be prepared for a major paradigm shift. Whether it will be proclaimed by the pope and cardinals first, or whether they will respond to events happening in the world, is yet to be seen and experienced. The conservatives (in religious meaning, I'm not talking of political conservatives that might be liberal in some church views). The conservatives have the option to close themselves, or to try to revolt, or God knows what. But the fact is the majority of the Catholic church reaches to the impending change as a 'must do' thing. We still have to see what exactly it means. Sure it is not only change of structure in Vatican. I can have my best guesses, and I did quite a lot to make them known in other threads. And you - yours. Time is ticking too, shown also by the symbolism of pope Francis elected 76 years old.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:18 AM
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One of my guesses: praying for prophecy, pope Francis may come out with his own version of End times interpretation. Or his own prophecy and visions. There are precedents. Pius X, Leo 13, John 23, Pius 12 to name a few popes who had visions. This is only my guess after reading his homily.

Have in mind other homilies where he nearly criticizes those who post messages of Our Lady that She was not a postmaster. He said, Our Lady is for everyone, she may talk to you, to me.
(I am not quoting.)

Whatever it is, we are before a really big change in church and society. The political motives that are largely commented in secular sources, (even labelled marxist by some) are far not the only thing important.

The conservatives, including prophecy websites as 'endtimesdaily', 'spiritdaily', etc, will do better if they concentrate on their own role in the process. What could they do in that process, having large data of ongoing and past "apparitions" and many people who read them. They can do quite a lot. Exactly to assure the salvation of the core conservatives catholics AND their children, grandchildren. I am far more precise in a number of other threads that were left largely unanswered. Although not unread. I have reasons to think cardinals have read here. Actually they have to read somewhere online the reaction of the people, and here is a good place to do so.

edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:23 AM
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2012newstart
The Catholics (and others) should be prepared for a major paradigm shift. Whether it will be proclaimed by the pope and cardinals first, or whether they will respond to events happening in the world, is yet to be seen and experienced. The conservatives (in religious meaning, I'm not talking of political conservatives that might be liberal in some church views). The conservatives have the option to close themselves, or to try to revolt, or God knows what. But the fact is the majority of the Catholic church reaches to the impending change as a 'must do' thing. We still have to see what exactly it means. Sure it is not only change of structure in Vatican. I can have my best guesses, and I did quite a lot to make them known in other threads. And you - yours. Time is ticking too, shown also by the symbolism of pope Francis elected 76 years old.



God doesn't change, He is in charge and He is very conservative. He wants you to come home to the
faith and all the world to believe the same.

The Great Trib is close, look toward Christ, the Father and God the Holy Spirit and once God's merciful
illumination of conscience to save souls happens, those who still deny will be followers of the anti-Christ.


God bless you 2012ns,



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:30 AM
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2012newstart
One of my guesses: praying for prophecy, pope Francis may come out with his own version of End times interpretation. Or his own prophecy and visions. There are precedents. Pius X, Leo 13, John 23, Pius 12 to name a few popes who had visions. This is only my guess after reading his homily.

Have in mind other homilies where he nearly criticizes those who post messages of Our Lady that She was not a postmaster. He said, Our Lady is for everyone, she may talk to you, to me.
(I am not quoting.)

Whatever it is, we are before a really big change in church and society. The political motives that are largely commented in secular sources, (even labelled marxist by some) are far not the only thing important.

The conservatives, including prophecy websites as 'endtimesdaily', 'spiritdaily', etc, will do better if they concentrate on their own role in the process. What could they do in that process, having large data of ongoing and past "apparitions" and many people who read them. They can do quite a lot. Exactly to assure the salvation of the core conservatives catholics AND their children, grandchildren. I am far more precise in a number of other threads that were left largely unanswered. Although not unread. I have reasons to think cardinals have read here. Actually they have to read somewhere online the reaction of the people, and here is a good place to do so.

edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


Exactly, she is your mother too. You remember from your Catholic upbringing. Our Lord gave
His mother to the world, every soul, from the Cross. The Trinity's plan, you can turn to Mary for
help, spiritually and temporal. Believe and ask her.

Pope Francis would NEVER put down the Blessed Mother's appearing, her work to bring souls to her
Son. Pope Francis prays the rosary daily for Heaven's sake.

Don't you think it proves again Jesus is divine, He gives His most beloved mother to everyone.

Awwwhhh....



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 05:47 AM
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I'd strongly advise you first to read what pope Francis said, before lecturing on theology.
edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:10 AM
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Because here we are supposed to discuss the innovation statements of pope Francis (and his close aides) that make some conservatives to feel uncomfortable...(be they political or religious)

I discuss the church conservatives, and please excuse me if some of you feel he is political conservative and the pope's words do not hurt him in anyway, or that does not relate to him or her. I believe the erudite posters make that difference quite easily, and for the rest who don't, sorry.

Cardinal Maradiaga's statement that the old Curia is finished with, is a bombshell that we still have to realize. It still has to be seen what the new structure will be. We have the first opponent, not someone else but the hi- level curia cardinal Burke who gave interview in the US EWTN channel. He questions not only that but also other things. We have a real battle between roman conservatives and a team of innovators for lack of better terms. It doesn't mean cardinal Maradiaga is liberal, but it means he is for change of status quo.

It deserves the utmost attention and I invite the intelligent posters to follow that ongoing Roman discussion as it unfolds. You may check it in Spiritdaily or in any other news channel that carries out the latest from Rome.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:10 AM
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2012newstart
Colbe, I think it is the RCC that has to undergo historic and contemporary repentance for quite many things, in first place, before asking any self-contrition of her members or her potential members, or her fallen away members. Many catholics who stay aside for various feel to be stronger ones than those sheeple.

I'd say that currently the Messianic Jews are much closer to the real Gospel (that we don't even know in full), than any of the Christian denominations filled with rules and laws. Please check the words of pope Francis that are the matter of discussion in this thread. He criticizes the laws and those who abide by the letter. Cardinals criticize outdated structures. It is a time that all to be cleansed. Jesus didn't talk that to happen of the future church. Not a line. Instead He criticized pharisees and warned disciples not to repeat their example. If you benevolent to read what the pope and cardinals speak today. Not yesterday but today. I made the quotes above. I comment what is an ongoing process. Yesterday, last month, I could have a different view and it is something that changes in course of time due to changed circumstances and changed people.

I'd say only one thing about Our Lady and that is She is above the seers. As God is above the prophets. No seer has fullness, even if true. We all have limitations. Still, the limitations of some people are to such degree of spiritual illiteracy in that matter, plus fanaticism, lack of basic knowledge in modern science, that they'd better start educate themselves asap. Or they risk to end up as pharisees, self deluded in paradigms of 19th century. I heard of a seer in that time, that the Milky Way was dust. Said by "Jesus". Well, I refuse to believe such kind of revelations.


Your first comment, of course you would say this, slam the faith again, you are a fallen away Catholic and FINALLY stating the fact with your third term. You gotta come home and you can.

Messianic Judaism and her splits was started Protestant minister to bring those of the Jewish faith to
Protestantism. It's a little bit Old Testament language and a whole lot of Protestantism.

God doesn't change, the teachings of Christ are the teachings of the Church. Pope Francis just clarified
because of the liberal media. He said "I am a son of the Church." Your vague "rules, laws and structures"
to be changed, you best be direct, state what they are brother. The teachings of Christ and His Church have not changed for 2000 years.

I'll agree with you here, God gives a part of His revealing to each prophet. Oh what a benefit, prophecy.


you are sweet, my friend, God bless you,


colbe



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:31 AM
link   

colbe

2012newstart
Colbe, I think it is the RCC that has to undergo historic and contemporary repentance for quite many things, in first place, before asking any self-contrition of her members or her potential members, or her fallen away members. Many catholics who stay aside for various feel to be stronger ones than those sheeple.

I'd say that currently the Messianic Jews are much closer to the real Gospel (that we don't even know in full), than any of the Christian denominations filled with rules and laws. Please check the words of pope Francis that are the matter of discussion in this thread. He criticizes the laws and those who abide by the letter. Cardinals criticize outdated structures. It is a time that all to be cleansed. Jesus didn't talk that to happen of the future church. Not a line. Instead He criticized pharisees and warned disciples not to repeat their example. If you benevolent to read what the pope and cardinals speak today. Not yesterday but today. I made the quotes above. I comment what is an ongoing process. Yesterday, last month, I could have a different view and it is something that changes in course of time due to changed circumstances and changed people.

I'd say only one thing about Our Lady and that is She is above the seers. As God is above the prophets. No seer has fullness, even if true. We all have limitations. Still, the limitations of some people are to such degree of spiritual illiteracy in that matter, plus fanaticism, lack of basic knowledge in modern science, that they'd better start educate themselves asap. Or they risk to end up as pharisees, self deluded in paradigms of 19th century. I heard of a seer in that time, that the Milky Way was dust. Said by "Jesus". Well, I refuse to believe such kind of revelations.


Your first comment, of course you would say this, slam the faith again, you are a fallen away Catholic and FINALLY stating the fact with your third term.



Your conclusions about myself are as erratic as your reasoning about other issues. I'd strongly invite you to go to page 1 of this very good thread and read what YOUR POPE HAS SAID, before teaching us a VERY fundamental catholic Sunday school from past age!

The purpose of this thread is to discuss his words and the impact they have on political and religious cicrcles. I see a very strong split inside the restricted camp of hi-level catholic clerics. They are little more than 120 cardinals and let say another set of bishops and secretaries. Among those...500 people or less now is played a giant war that is no more silent but spills in the media. Cardinal Maradiaga just brought in "millions of faithful" from Latin America who support his reformer's team, and called that "move by the Holy Spirit".

Why don't you please comment THAT?

I want to tell the other readers and posters, we witness history these days! Vatican 2 may be soon eclipsed. The words of alleged "Marxism" said by some catholic political conservative is much less important than what will happen next month in Rome. Once in 1900 years!
edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 

I didn't say I am Messianic Jew or I was raised Catholic. May be the opposite, anyway I am unwilling to discuss it publicly. Isn't that enough for you? Would you please stop trying to catch me in word, and instead discuss the highly important topic?



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:57 AM
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2012newstart
reply to post by colbe
 

I didn't say I am Messianic Jew or I was raised Catholic. May be the opposite, anyway I am unwilling to discuss it publicly. Isn't that enough for you? Would you please stop trying to catch me in word, and instead discuss the highly important topic?



Saying you won't say 2012ns tells everyone you are a baptized Roman Catholic. I never said you were Messianic, I commented on your praising Messianic Judaism. I shared its origin.

I am staying to topic, you attack the faith and I defend it. Stop, for the life your soul.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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There will be, IMO, two more fronts of that silent/overt war.

One will be the political, as you guys commented in large the meaning of it. The two camps inside the hi circles of Catholic church will take sides along those lines, or will they. Cardinal Maradiaga is no Marxist for everyone who knows him and his political actions in his own country Honduras. As the pope is not. But someone may accuse them being such, as we see example in the media.

The other front line is, IMO, the attitude towards aliens IF those appear in that same period of time. If not, the highly debatable question will be put to rest until it surfaces in public. Let not forget that Vatican jesuit astronomers (understand -pope) already scheduled the 2nd conference about the life in the Universe in March 2014 in Arizona observatory. So we may have the next intellectual event as the first one in Castel gandolfo came and went with only intellectuals being interested in, both believers and those who do not frame themselves in denominations. Or we may have another development, all depending on the events that take place in the world.

Putin's assertiveness in Europe (missiles in Kaliningrad that can reach Berlin and probably can reach Rome if we assume they are constructed in violation of a cold war era treaty), as well as the possible NATO response to that (let say bases in Lithuania), would add to the political weight of the future papal words. Some of you guys who posted last year have long scenarios of Russian invasion of Europe.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 
Colbe you just go irrelevant! I don't think you do a very useful service to the Catholic church with that! Who asked you to detail my background? May be a bishop? May be someone who just cannot stand my views on, let say, aliens and rapture? They will reveal themselves, those wolves in lamb skins, soon. They cannot stand anything and anyone that dares to ask questions.

As for example, Genesis is not enough, there is book of Enoch. And that all is not enough either. They would rather die than to accept the reality.

Could the pope reveal a batch of new books like Dead sea scrolls that tell a different story? And he will be called whatever for that. Who cares, I want to know the truth of God's Son.

Benedict said last Christmas, the Christmas story in the Gospel is not full at best. I will not detail it, you may search his exact words.
edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 07:04 AM
link   

2012newstart

colbe

2012newstart
Colbe, I think it is the RCC that has to undergo historic and contemporary repentance for quite many things, in first place, before asking any self-contrition of her members or her potential members, or her fallen away members. Many catholics who stay aside for various feel to be stronger ones than those sheeple.

I'd say that currently the Messianic Jews are much closer to the real Gospel (that we don't even know in full), than any of the Christian denominations filled with rules and laws. Please check the words of pope Francis that are the matter of discussion in this thread. He criticizes the laws and those who abide by the letter. Cardinals criticize outdated structures. It is a time that all to be cleansed. Jesus didn't talk that to happen of the future church. Not a line. Instead He criticized pharisees and warned disciples not to repeat their example. If you benevolent to read what the pope and cardinals speak today. Not yesterday but today. I made the quotes above. I comment what is an ongoing process. Yesterday, last month, I could have a different view and it is something that changes in course of time due to changed circumstances and changed people.

I'd say only one thing about Our Lady and that is She is above the seers. As God is above the prophets. No seer has fullness, even if true. We all have limitations. Still, the limitations of some people are to such degree of spiritual illiteracy in that matter, plus fanaticism, lack of basic knowledge in modern science, that they'd better start educate themselves asap. Or they risk to end up as pharisees, self deluded in paradigms of 19th century. I heard of a seer in that time, that the Milky Way was dust. Said by "Jesus". Well, I refuse to believe such kind of revelations.


Your first comment, of course you would say this, slam the faith again, you are a fallen away Catholic and FINALLY stating the fact with your third term.



Your conclusions about myself are as erratic as your reasoning about other issues. I'd strongly invite you to go to page 1 of this very good thread and read what YOUR POPE HAS SAID, before teaching us a VERY fundamental catholic Sunday school from past age!

The purpose of this thread is to discuss his words and the impact they have on political and religious cicrcles. I see a very strong split inside the restricted camp of hi-level catholic clerics. They are little more than 120 cardinals and let say another set of bishops and secretaries. Among those...500 people or less now is played a giant war that is no more silent but spills in the media. Cardinal Maradiaga just brought in "millions of faithful" from Latin America who support his reformer's team, and called that "move by the Holy Spirit".

Why don't you please comment THAT?

I want to tell the other readers and posters, we witness history these days! Vatican 2 may be soon eclipsed. The words of alleged "Marxism" said by some catholic political conservative is much less important than what will happen next month in Rome. Once in 1900 years!
edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


Blah, blah, blah, don't start a thread about Catholicism to attack it. You'll lose. The liberal media and your attempt to liberalize the Holy Father. He is loving not liberal. Pope Francis, followed up, said this to make it clear, to straighten the lying media out, "I am a son of the Church."

He recently made three traditional pronouncements, you aren't going to hear them in the news.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 07:09 AM
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2012newstart
reply to post by colbe
 
Colbe you just go irrelevant! I don't think you do a very useful service to your church with that! Who asked you to do that? May be a bishop?


edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


Good Lord, all you do is start anti-Catholic threads and how about "irrelevant", add the alien/ufo nonsense.

Why did you leave the faith, I am interested? You could share, give one reason.


God bless you,

colbe



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 07:13 AM
link   

colbe

2012newstart

colbe

2012newstart
Colbe, I think it is the RCC that has to undergo historic and contemporary repentance for quite many things, in first place, before asking any self-contrition of her members or her potential members, or her fallen away members. Many catholics who stay aside for various feel to be stronger ones than those sheeple.

I'd say that currently the Messianic Jews are much closer to the real Gospel (that we don't even know in full), than any of the Christian denominations filled with rules and laws. Please check the words of pope Francis that are the matter of discussion in this thread. He criticizes the laws and those who abide by the letter. Cardinals criticize outdated structures. It is a time that all to be cleansed. Jesus didn't talk that to happen of the future church. Not a line. Instead He criticized pharisees and warned disciples not to repeat their example. If you benevolent to read what the pope and cardinals speak today. Not yesterday but today. I made the quotes above. I comment what is an ongoing process. Yesterday, last month, I could have a different view and it is something that changes in course of time due to changed circumstances and changed people.

I'd say only one thing about Our Lady and that is She is above the seers. As God is above the prophets. No seer has fullness, even if true. We all have limitations. Still, the limitations of some people are to such degree of spiritual illiteracy in that matter, plus fanaticism, lack of basic knowledge in modern science, that they'd better start educate themselves asap. Or they risk to end up as pharisees, self deluded in paradigms of 19th century. I heard of a seer in that time, that the Milky Way was dust. Said by "Jesus". Well, I refuse to believe such kind of revelations.


Your first comment, of course you would say this, slam the faith again, you are a fallen away Catholic and FINALLY stating the fact with your third term.



Your conclusions about myself are as erratic as your reasoning about other issues. I'd strongly invite you to go to page 1 of this very good thread and read what YOUR POPE HAS SAID, before teaching us a VERY fundamental catholic Sunday school from past age!

The purpose of this thread is to discuss his words and the impact they have on political and religious cicrcles. I see a very strong split inside the restricted camp of hi-level catholic clerics. They are little more than 120 cardinals and let say another set of bishops and secretaries. Among those...500 people or less now is played a giant war that is no more silent but spills in the media. Cardinal Maradiaga just brought in "millions of faithful" from Latin America who support his reformer's team, and called that "move by the Holy Spirit".

Why don't you please comment THAT?

I want to tell the other readers and posters, we witness history these days! Vatican 2 may be soon eclipsed. The words of alleged "Marxism" said by some catholic political conservative is much less important than what will happen next month in Rome. Once in 1900 years!
edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


Blah, blah, blah, don't start a thread about Catholicism to attack it. You'll lose. The liberal media and your attempt to liberalize the Holy Father. He is loving not liberal.


May be you will notice that the thread is not started by me.
May be you will finally decide to READ the words of pope Francis in the first post of this thread. Comment them if you can! What you offer is 19th century sunday school that is just irrelevant to today's level of religion.



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 07:35 AM
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I am happy that cardinal Maradiaga brought into the equation of Roman change the voice of "millions" of devotees in Latin America.

This approach, and not its opposite, should be followed.

The people's voices should be heard finally.

It is good it was said clearly the Holy Spirit talks thru the people. Vox populi, vox Dei


edit on 18-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 09:24 AM
link   
reply to post by colbe
 


yo! no problemo man... Mikey's got it covered, Christ gave him a hammer and he likes it


I have read the prayer though... many different versions, and coming from PA (the state of my birth) I went thru alot of schooling and preschooling in a protestant community.

One of my teachers must have been Catholic though... sheet can get frustrating surrounded by communities in a state which is mostly Protestant Presbyterian.

she hated my knuckles man I tell ya! that was public school btw...

~~~

this post needs theme music!

never go anywhere without your theme music...
edit on 18-12-2013 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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I will rather keep the trend of the initial thread.

Cardinal Burke fires warning shots on behalf of tradition www.renewamerica.com...

Even though many traditionalists were longing for Cardinal Burke to abandon all nuance in addressing the foibles of Francisco, one should appreciate the fact that, as far as "cardinal-speak" goes, these comments are about as close to a public rebuke of the pope as we're going to get from the likes of Cardinal Burke, for the present moment anyway.



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