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Why Do Conservatives Hate Pope Francis So Much ?

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posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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Just as I thought, this article would be posted at ATS already. The question is who is anti-Catholic Nicole
Winfield from Associated Press and her constant writings against the faith? Now she is putting the Holy Father
against those who love the most reverent Mass, the Tridentine Mass.




posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

You have missed the point of this thread, which is about political conservatives.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by benrl
 


The way the document was translated, the bits that I saw, it was made to look like Liberation Theology. Liberation Theology is an attempted marriage of Marxist thought and Christian theology that calls for a two step process with the first being revolution, violent if necessary, and the second being spiritual. Given that Frances is from Latin America, the birthplace of Liberation Theology, it was no stretch to attribute the translated remarks as his and as Liberations Theologist.

Basic Christian principle is not at all antithetical to individual liberty or personal property. And the 10 Commandments (and Christ) taught us not be thieves or to envy, two things that are all too common in people these days who want to see the government take ever more in the hopes it will give some of it to them.

I don't disagree at all that there are many who have wealth who are greedy and do not do much to pay it forward, so to speak, but there are also quite a few who have made it who do give generously, but it's not enough. At what point is a person allowed to consider the fruits of their labor to be theirs and be secure in their ability to do with it as they will?

According to many here, you should never, ever have that right. There should be no property rights, and it is apparently unchristian to think that you should.

Do you also think it unchristian to believe in personal freedoms and liberty? Because if you cannot be secure in your property, then you have no right to expect to be secure in your person, either.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:30 PM
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DISRAELI
reply to post by colbe
 

You have missed the point of this thread, which is about political conservatives.



Here is the article, the latest attack on the faith, sad and proof of the true faith, it comes from all sides. The Associated Press reporter has a history. Who is she? What is her "chip?"

www.thenewstribune.com...



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

But this thread, as I have already pointed out, is about people who are conservatives in a political sense. That article has nothing to do with the question.
I strongly recommend actually reading the OP.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:40 PM
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Political conservatives are today's cannon fodder.

Political conservatives today also tend towards knowing more history than liberals and particularly those who live for their emotions and are easily swayed.

Political conservatives also tend towards putting the dots together and identifying a product which is not as advertised.

They look at the speeches of political candidates preaching a social religion devoted to getting more power for governments..and thus getting elected and re elected...and have determined that often the product is not as advertised.
This applies to both the Republican and Democrat parties in this nation.

Many conservatives have determined that the Republicans are nothing more than Democrat Lite and are for the political party first..not for the people.


They look also as the history of the Roman church and determine that conversion by burning at the stake or being put on the rack..is not much different from conversion by the sword in Islam.

They also, as some have posted here on this thread, dubiously note that the RCC, in like manner to a politician, is looking for votes and or a pass. Conservatives do not automatically jump on the easily emoted bandwagon. They have seen this one come and go to many times. Conservatives tend to get insulted when someone tries to grab them by the emotional puppet strings for their support.


Here is something for some of you to think about ...free...no cover charge.

Concerning homosexuality and sexuality period..


No thinking rational person attempts to define themselves by their sexuality or sexual orientation. Period!! Not heteros or homos...it is just a very stupid thing to do.


I say this because people as human beings are so much more than sex, sexual orientation and sexuality.

People who can think for themselves know that historically people define themselves by their lineage, their occupation or some great work they have done and left to posterity. For most of us that means our progeny.

I am not speaking here against sexuality..I am saying that a proper person is more than this. Much much more than sexuality.

So when I see a so called leader ...going down this road and not promoting the concept that people are so much more than sex and sexuality..I now realize that they are promoting a phony concept. They are not dealing out all the cards in the deck. They are in fact stacking the deck in ignorance.

They tend towards speaking of people mostly being defined by their sex or sexuality. What a stupid bunch of leaders. But they are smart for putting people on the sex/sexuality treadmill..for votes. This works very well on people who are easily emoted.
It does not work well on people who know history and what it means and bodes for a peoples liberty and freedom.

I do not have to approve of a person hetero or homo ..on the basis of their sexuality alone and am insulted by the concept.
To define ones self by their sex and sexuality is some kind of stupid. It is not even intelligent.

Because I know that people are so much much more than sex and sexuality. Much much more.


So when I see a Pope or even my own leaders and politicians catering to this nonsense...I realize that their investment is in my ignorance....and thus I greatly disapprove of them.

Also I agree with the misuse of the word "Hate."

Hate is a word used upon the ignorant to censor or cut them off and their views. Hate is a default setting to play through unchallanged and without thinking a thing through...on the backs of easily emoted people..people not capable of thinking for themselves

Very similar to the way the word "Hitler " is used to control people and stop them from individual thinking outside of authorized or pre approved channels. I dont buy into it. I think the word "Hate " like "Hitler" is often misused on people who cannot think for themselves..people who are easily emoted. It was designed to be misused this way...to control and put people on easily emoted puppet strings...while separating them from their vote.

Be very very careful of your emotions. Leaders often prey on your unguarded and unthinking emotions to put puppet strings on you and your vote...Predators on your unguarded and unthinking emotions.

BeWarned..

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Spiramirabilis
 

Dear Spiramirabilis,

It's wonderful to hear from you again. Thanks for stepping in.

I've been having difficulty recently, detecting tones of voice here on ATS. I'm glad you put in the smiley. And by putting in the very oldest form of smiley you strike a blow against the new, depraved system of smileys. (I want the old ones back!)

I suppose Rush sees the modern American tendency is to turn to Socialism instead of repairing Capitalism, but he's been at it for 25 years and may be over-sensitive to criticism. He, as well as everyone else should know that Capitalism has it's flaws. But you would not be surprised to know that I believe that Marxism is doomed from the start, while Capitalism is not.


Care to explain how the Popes recent admonishment was directed towards the undeserving and not the greedy?
Sorry, which admonishment, the one in the OP? In any event, I would expect the Pope to deal with one problem per speech. If he's upset with people who have things they didn't earn, surely it must be because they were greedily holding on to it.

Maybe it's the weather, or maybe my brain has gone into hibernation, but I think I've missed your point completely.


I love how so many lately want so badly to embrace this guy because he appears to be the real deal - but they have to spin everything he says to make it line up with their political beliefs
I'm not prepared to spin the things he says because it takes me a while to get a grasp on what, exactly, he is saying. Besides, I don't have the job of explaining him to the world. I do want to take some time to figure out, or be told, what he is calling for at the national and personal level.


All taunting aside Charles - absolutely. Hard not to applaud anyone who calls it as he sees it - and touches on something that applies to all of humanity and not just one group or class
I would modify your comment a little. All Popes call it like they see it or, how they see what the Holy Spirit is showing them. Greed, pride, holiness and many more, belong to the world as a whole. That may be why the Church is often called the Universal Church.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 06:00 PM
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OP didn't really prove his point. As a conservative I don't hate the Pope at all. He's a breath of fresh air. And generally speaking, conservatives give a lot more to charities than liberals do. They just don't crow about it. I think the Pope is somewhat naïve about economics, and I note he is the product of a socialist institution that has taken care of his every need since he began to study for the priesthood. But even given that I think he's a great man who has already taught the world a bit about humility. I look forward to his tenure.

So, basically, your opening statement is not at all proven. It sounds like you came to a conclusion before researching the facts.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 06:14 PM
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I support pope Francis' new initiatives.

The ultra conservative catholics ( a term that has yet to be defined what and who it includes), that small part of them who take up the stand as if they speak of all the church what is right and wrong, of all catholics as if they are kind of their representatives, should tone down their rhetoric against the pope in first place. They would do better to study what are the Catholic teachings on the social issues. Including John Paul 2 works, and also those of Leo 13. They do not differ that much from what pope Francis says and proposes, only he proposes it bolder than them.

Before they ever speak unthinkable things of Time magazine award, as the Third Eagle did. They know who they are.

The pope needs support in this and other good initiatives. God bless him!
edit on 14-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 06:23 PM
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schuyler I think the Pope is somewhat naïve about economics, and I note he is the product of a socialist institution that has taken care of his every need since he began to study for the priesthood.


It is easy to call the pope "socialist" only because he criticizes what is today, and not to address the outstanding real life issues he is talking about. Not to address the misery that spreads already in the most advanced countries in the world, already in parishes in USA. What more to wait, most catholics to sign up for Mother Theresa's food aid? Do not forget please, that USA and EU are not the poorest countries in this world, rather they are the richest ones and yet they experience such problems. Let alone countries like Nigeria.


edit on 14-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by 2012newstart
 


That doesn't negate what I said. He's still economically naïve. However, in terms of "conservatives hating him," if the context is Catholic conservatives, then I see the point, though it wasn't mentioned initially. Catholic conservatives, many of whom think saying the Mass in anything but Latin is a sacrilege, are living in a dream world.

I support the Pope's direction.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

Hey there Charles :-)

I agree - sometimes so hard to hear the tone in here...I like to think the smileys help, but not everyone takes their meaning the right way


I suppose Rush sees the modern American tendency is to turn to Socialism instead of repairing Capitalism, but he's been at it for 25 years and may be over-sensitive to criticism.


Rush is a corpulent, catty trollop - shakin' it for the man every chance he gets. Anything for a buck

Always so quick to play the prostitute card. It's a universe full of irony - don't you find it Charles?

Or, maybe that's just my opinion

He's never impressed me as being much of an idea man - mostly just an anti-idea sort of guy. Difficult for me to respect that. But, I don't have to listen to him - so I don't


But you would not be surprised to know that I believe that Marxism is doomed from the start, while Capitalism is not.


I am not surprised - good call :-)

You might be surprised to know that I think capitalism is a natural choice - in as much as it is natural. What isn't natural is what we're calling capitalism now - and what we're willing to do in the name of capitalism

However, the Pope seems to have that part covered

Ideas - are very different things once the humans get their hands on them. Marxism, capitalism - the best laid plans of mice and men...

:-)



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 07:51 PM
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2012newstart
I support pope Francis' new initiatives.

The ultra conservative catholics ( a term that has yet to be defined what and who it includes), that small part of them who take up the stand as if they speak of all the church what is right and wrong, of all catholics as if they are kind of their representatives, should tone down their rhetoric against the pope in first place. They would do better to study what are the Catholic teachings on the social issues. Including John Paul 2 works, and also those of Leo 13. They do not differ that much from what pope Francis says and proposes, only he proposes it bolder than them.

Before they ever speak unthinkable things of Time magazine award, as the Third Eagle did. They know who they are.

The pope needs support in this and other good initiatives. God bless him!
edit on 14-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


This thread subject is attack on the faith (RC), its purpose.

Conservative, traditional Catholics who love the Latin Mass are ATTACKED often by fallen away Catholics and the rest, ungodly political liberals, non-Catholic Christians who are brought up denying, protesting the faith and non-Christians.

Read 2012newstart's threads, they are all very very negative about the faith, Roman Catholicism.

Why promote instead, UFOs and aliens as being good for who knows what reason.



posted on Dec, 14 2013 @ 07:54 PM
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olaru12

VictorVonDoom
reply to post by CosmicDude
 


Which conservatives have said they hate the Pope?



www.youtube.com...





edit on 14-12-2013 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)


Rush doesn't know the faith, he wouldn't be attacking the Vicar of Christ if he did. And Rush
misquoted Evangelii Gaudiam. The Holy Father's words were "unfettered consumerism" not
"unfettered Capitalism."



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 01:05 AM
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colbe


Conservative, traditional Catholics who love the Latin Mass are ATTACKED often by fallen away Catholics and the rest, ungodly political liberals, non-Catholic Christians who are brought up denying, protesting the faith and non-Christians.

Read 2012newstart's threads, they are all very very negative about the faith, Roman Catholicism.

Why promote instead, UFOs and aliens as being good for who knows what reason.


I do not agree with the poster Colbe that my threads are "very, very negative" about the Roman Catholic faith and church. Indeed I put some controversial historical and contemporary facts that still await their answers. As why for example the renamed inquisition office should exist and exert rulings in 21st century, after we have the most inglorious pages of the Catholic church connected exactly with that office.

I believe many of these questions will be properly addressed by the reform of pope Francis. Including the question how to deal with extraterrestrial beings already residing on Earth (shall we baptize them for instance). I discuss that issue in length in one of my top threads (click on the profile). A question very important if someone wants to feed 7 billion people that only grow in numbers. If someone wants to cure diseases. And not only to assure the next generation catholics having privilege to be born in US or EU will have good health coverage and education. The Church is the church of the poor, since may be 800 million members of Catholic church live in misery and in Third world countries.

One cannot possibly resolve world's outstanding social and economic injustice with methods and also tech of early 20th century. New methods including new AVAILABLE technologies are needed to feed the hungry and cure the sick. Because we are not miracle makers as Jesus was.
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 01:22 AM
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Pope: I am not Marxist. religion.blogs.cnn.com...

The attack on pope Francis as being socialist, communist, or marxist, is no surprise. People who grew wealthy all their lives, and branded themselves "practicing catholics" probably see the devil in any attempt to shift goods towards those less fortunate of them. I talked of the numbers above. If the church(es) are created to serve a handful of rich men (as it was often the practice in the past ages and even in more contemporary times) it is a very distorted image of Jesus Christ presented that the members of other world religions see. I believe the church was not created for that by Jesus, but for completely different reasons, that more skillful people in theology that I am would explain in greater detail. IMHO a return to the roots is needed. Whatever that could possibly mean.

Marxism is relatively new theory and it comes from the West, Germany. It was tragically implemented in Russia with disastrous consequences for decades that over-passed the Russian borders. May be if pope Francis was born a century and a half earlier and elected pope before 1900, the October revolution 1917 would have never taken place. But everything is in the hands of God and permitted by God to happen. Now we could only repair the past transgressions on each side (and I criticize each side, please notice that fact when call me anti-catholic). We could only hope that God will give GOOD WILL in MANY CATHOLICS to understand what pope Francis wants to do is what is needed to be done. Not only because of the fact that the Catholic church grew up in history as the largest Christian formation, while her sister churches did not have the same conditions to grow as fast. But also because the truth taught by Jesus Christ himself - the head and the cornerstone of the one spiritual Church in heaven and on earth.

It is a time the devote catholics who were raised in pre-Vatican 2 teachings, that frankly are centuries outdated from the reality today, to realize the main elements of original teaching of Jesus Christ might have been diverted throughout the ages. And not to put new obstacles in issues already decided. I want to hope the ultra-conservative catholics who have their views of how the things are run and probably won't change them in the rest of their lives, PLEASE DO NOT try to torpedo the attempts of pope Francis for a better future - for all of us on planet Earth (and even to the ends of the Universe).
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 01:58 AM
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In fact certain ultra conservative catholic groups already demonize pope Francis. The third eagle is not the only one. Groupings around self-proclaimed apparitions come out with no less accusation than to say the pope is the false prophet of the revelation. They strangely match the secular groups, like Petrus Romanus book of Tom Horn, and with some protestant denominations. (the protestant and evangelicals have yet to determine their position on pope Francis).

I am asking, who then is the real catholic and who is the fallen away catholic, and who is the anti-catholic? Is it possible Orthodox, Muslim, or even self-declared Atheists to find themselves much closer to the idea of renovation of what Jesus Christ originally taught? Perhaps those who see honestly the negatives in the current catholic hierarchy and WANT to correct them, are much more catholics on deeds than those who are slaves of outdated centuries doctrines and want to keep the archaic status quo, no matter what. Non-suspicious of who leads them, they will be snared by the groupings mentioned above (and my purpose is not to discuss or accuse the groupings as such, but to illustrate the big picture).

The pope tries to offer a way out of the deepest crisis the worldwide Christianity ever had. I may say - the world has ever had. That doesn't mean that every word he says is infallible or that he cannot err in the process (and I talked about that in other threads). But his reform has a chance to be successful only if he is supported. In first place, by his own flock.
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 02:04 AM
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2012newstart

colbe


Conservative, traditional Catholics who love the Latin Mass are ATTACKED often by fallen away Catholics and the rest, ungodly political liberals, non-Catholic Christians who are brought up denying, protesting the faith and non-Christians.

Read 2012newstart's threads, they are all very very negative about the faith, Roman Catholicism.

Why promote instead, UFOs and aliens as being good for who knows what reason.


I do not agree with the poster Colbe that my threads are "very, very negative" about the Roman Catholic faith and church. Indeed I put some controversial historical and contemporary facts that still await their answers. As why for example the renamed inquisition office should exist and exert rulings in 21st century, after we have the most inglorious pages of the Catholic church connected exactly with that office.

I believe many of these questions will be properly addressed by the reform of pope Francis. Including the question how to deal with extraterrestrial beings already residing on Earth (shall we baptize them for instance). I discuss that issue in length in one of my top threads (click on the profile). A question very important if someone wants to feed 7 billion people that only grow in numbers. If someone wants to cure diseases. And not only to assure the next generation catholics having privilege to be born in US or EU will have good health coverage and education. The Church is the church of the poor, since may be 800 million members of Catholic church live in misery and in Third world countries.

One cannot possibly resolve world's outstanding social and economic injustice with methods and also tech of early 20th century. New methods including new AVAILABLE technologies are needed to feed the hungry and cure the sick. Because we are not miracle makers as Jesus was.
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


There is the one faith, given to the world by the Church Christ established, Roman Catholicism, the RCC. Your "inquisition" protest in this reply isn't a slam of the faith, you love Roman Catholicism.

Mankind, we are all sinners. There was much worse, the "inglorious" murder of millions of Irish Catholics and English Catholics in Cromwell's English inquisition, actually slaughter.

Pope Francis has made it clear, He is a "son of the Church" which means he follows Christ. The teachings of the Church are Christ's teachings. There is not going to be a "reform" of the faith by Francis. No need, God doesn't change. A "reform" is your PO, spin.

"Extraterrestrial beings" are not of God. Show their/its good fruit, there isn't any.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 02:39 AM
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I discuss the ET in another thread where I poured just too many quotes and facts and testimonies, historic and contemporary, and future projections. I am not able to repeat even a tiny portion here without losing self-coherency. Everyone is welcome to comment there. "Churches, tell us the truth of ET-angels and aliens-demons" page 8 www.abovetopsecret.com...
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 04:50 AM
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reply to post by schuyler
 


He is not economically naive, rather quite erudite. It is yet to be seen what PRACTICAL TERMS his ideas will take. Perhaps I guess he will start the process from his own headquarters, before offering solutions to the wider world. But if the time is short (for whatever reason) the two processes may go together.

Yes it means "catholic conservatives" in first place, before it means "political conservatives". If you are not inside those circles (and most common people are not, be they catholics or not), you could not possibly imagine what rejection, repulsion or whatever the exact word those ultra-conservative groupings of people exert on all popes and all changes since Vatican 2 council.

Recently attempts have been made to connect the ultra conservative churchmen and their policy with the naturally conservative (and elderly) devotees who believe Our Lady appears in a dozen of apparitions and gives strong critical messages. Those are two separate sets of people. The first ones holding the actual power in the Roman catholic church, and the second ones only praying. The second ones, some of which are presented in this forum, actually have no say on Church policy other than pray and post in a forum (as I do). In fact Francis' struggle will be within. But he calls for support (and prayer) from all those people that I mentioned. Including from the liberals, who will do better to start finally pray the rosary.
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)


I decided to cut short the economic part. I believe any new economic model will work only by utilizing the new technologies that we barely know about. Doesn't matter the names we give, it matters what is put on the table. Computer being one of them, far not the only one. Humanity practically don't need oil anymore.
The outdated dispute of 19th-early 20th century socialism vs capitalism is very far from the actual situation on the ground even in the most developed countries. We are desperate for change, on all levels. New genetics is being discovered as we speak. New nano tech. Make it workable for the masses. Prove it works for the common good.

The weapon of the antichrist? Not likely, not yet. Preconditions haven't been met.

Or we'd better leave this planet. Cataclysm of the scale of 2 Peter will make useless the question if the antichrist is born or not.
edit on 15-12-2013 by 2012newstart because: (no reason given)



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