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'active shooter situation' at Arapahoe High School .colorado

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posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 



even the most die hard supporter of gun rights must admit that something in someway needs to change.

Yup, and that would be people's minds.
No one is born as a natural killer. Somewhere along the process of growing up these minds have been influenced to think that there will be no consenquences for killing people.
Society is falling apart, and that needs to change.




posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I think the mental health aspect is important but its a bit of a cop-out, most people who have depression or schizophrenia for example dont go out and gun down a bunch of kids. A "sane" man could quite possibly have done this just as someone with a complex mental health history.

So while yes I agree a gun is just a tool, it is a tool that is creating quite a lot of problems. The poor state of mental health treatment is also a problem but its a separate issue, trying to forge the two together is just wrong.

Now i am sure that everyone would want to live in a world with out guns but that is just not the reality.

Guns are never going to go away in America, that is a fact and its also the way it should be guns are part of your culture and tradition as a nation.

It would be like telling us Scottish folk that they are going to ban kilts.

that said however,

When cases like this are a monthly occurrence then as a Nation you guys really do need to have a serious and sensible debate with out all the emotion and sob stories from both sides. Something does need to be done, what that is, is what needs to be decided upon, the question of "does America have a problem with gun violence?" has been answered with a very loud YES.

Now what needs to be done is that people need to start having a real debate about what to do about the problem. This should not be a debate about the emotions or the silly arguments but a very mature realization that there is a problem and then moving forward with steps to start going someway to tackling the problem.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


You have to put it in context, though.

Was this drug-related? What other influences motivated the attacker?

You also must recognize that the media does a great job of exploiting tragedies like this, while down-playing multiple daily gun-related crimes in areas where there are severe gun restrictions.

I wish it were as easy as saying, "Enact this law and everything will be fine". But it isn't.

Our biggest problem in this country isn't guns, it is the lack of respect for civility, lack of respect for the law, and lack of respect for each other.

None of which, will be solved with gun bans.
edit on 13-12-2013 by beezzer because: error



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 





what can i do? what can anyone do?


I don't know if these school shootings can ever be stopped completely. However, if the parents of the shooters were held criminally accountable for their minor child's actions, then I think that would solve some of the frequency issues.

These parents are typically negligent in some way; be it by leaving their guns in accessible areas, neglecting their child's mental disorders, etc...




its not like guns are any easier to get than they were 25 or 50 years ago... are they? im not into guns so i really dont know. i would think that that 50 years ago if you wanted to get your hands on one you could just as easy as today. so, there is something else.


Guns are just as easy to get today as they were at any time in the past. I think a large part of the problem of increased frequency centers around shooter type video games; especially in combination with mental disorder, physical abuse at home or bullying in the school.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:29 PM
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Firewater
Once again, the shooter "kills themselves". So tragic.


usually when people commit suicide, they don't take anyone down with them. Growing up, I never even heard of shoot outs at school. What is it with todays people????



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:31 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin


but when news like this is becoming a expected and regular occurrence, even the most die hard supporter of gun rights must admit that something in someway needs to change.
edit on 13-12-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)


i think there are issues beyond that.
i think we need to look at the cause... the big WHY

30 years ago an angry kid of any age could have got their hands on a gun and went on a rampage... they just didnt.
that is a fact. it did not happen and today it does.
so, why is it happening?

i think that is far more important than the gun control issue myself

are people desensitized to violence? movies/music/video games... not just violence but gore/mature content???? i dont even know what to call it.

is it because everything available on the net and tv?

not just violence and not just movies and games.
last night my wife and i watched this thing on netflix called i was bitten. it was 3 cases of people that got bit by snakes... man, it was intense. it shows actual video of parts of it. as in video of this one dudes thumb literally dissolving away. his flesh rotted away and the bone started to melt away.
another guys arm got so swollen they had to make incisions all over his arm to release the pressure. they showed pictures of it. his arm was sliced open in a bunch of spots and his muscle tissue was exposed and hanging out. it looked fake but it wasnt.

is it just the collection of all these things?
this sounds funny but porn 30 years ago was far different. im sure that was harder to get your hands on. pretty extreme stuff.

tv shows.
doctor dramas that show people super messed up.

i dont know how to explain this all well at all obviously. i know what i want to say but i cant get it out.

is it the fact that there is so much 'unfiltered content' out there that is so easy to get our hands on and some people cant handle it?

i dont know man. something is different. people are freaking out and i dont think the gun control issue is the biggest part of it



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:35 PM
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CardiffGiant
what happened to school fights being the worst you had to worry about?
[SNIP]so what is it?
what is causing kids to freak out and start killing people?


Zero tolerance happened. They removed the ability of teenaged males to participate in the developmentally vital process of fighting to establish a pecking order, defend themselves, posture, and deal with raging testosterone. Zero tolerance policies are akin to plugging the petcock on a pressure cooker. Without the ability to vent steam, the pot will eventually explode.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


To be clear I am not saying that I have any solutions, I am just saying that America does have a problem with gun violence (in what ever contest you want to put it in) and something needs to be done to change this.

Now I think anyone who assumes that simply passing a couple of laws is the solution to the problem is incredibly ignorant of the nature of the problem. That said, though, perhaps a few changes to the law would be a good place to start. Then start working on the bigger problems of improving education regarding guns, improving mental health services, putting in extra infrastructure to endure that laws are being followed as they should and so on.

I am just a guy like you at the end of the day who is just tapping away about events going on in the world, I really am not arrogant enough to assume i have the solution.

but any alien in a suit could tell you that there is a problem and a solution is needed and people need to stop with the silly emotions and to be quite blunt hiding behind the second amendment. Like i have said I fully support Americans rights to own a gun, but at the same time anytime some lawmaker tries to tackle this problem that are many who start ranting about the second amendment. Yes your constitution is important but it is not as important as the life of your families and it should not stand in the way of progress to make your streets safer.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:40 PM
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LeatherNLace
I think a large part of the problem of increased frequency centers around shooter type video games; especially in combination with mental disorder, physical abuse at home or bullying in the school.


my wife just mentioned that. i think that may play a part.
i think it is just content overload and some people cant take it.
everywhere you turn something is there.
i loved the show house. tell you what though they showed things that were graphic. wouldnt have been on tv 30 years ago.
that show i watched about the bites. i love that stuff. but this dudes thumb was melting off from some enzymes in the venom. it was graphic. it was gross. you couldnt have seen that 30 years ago.

i love the stuff.
graphic movies and shows
shows about peoples hands melting off from a snake bite
i can handle watching the news when they talk about the latest drone strike that killed 10 people. about the gitmo torture.. stuff like that.

what i am trying to say is maybe after so much time of taking in all this content some people just cant take it anymore. factor all those things in with mental health.
factor them in with mommy didnt love me
factor it with daddy left when i was 2 and i hate my step dad

are some people mentally weak? is it as simple as that?

let me say that i dont believe in censorship. i want to watch my violent movie and watch my graphic show. you know?
i just know that something over the years has changed because things like this didnt happen



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


But in 3rd world countries there is death, violence, rape and they don't have video games or Internet. I think humanity is simply losing touch with its humanity. No matter how nice a person is everyone has limits to the amount of despair they can take before lashing out. Those who feel unloved or rejected often are the ones who snap. Imo.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
Like i have said I fully support Americans rights to own a gun, but at the same time anytime some lawmaker tries to tackle this problem that are many who start ranting about the second amendment. Yes your constitution is important but it is not as important as the life of your families and it should not stand in the way of progress to make your streets safer.


2 things (3 actually)

1. It's frustrating that it didn't even take a full page of rapid fire comments before the gun control issue again came up.

2. Americans have seen far too much in the way of a frog in a boiling pot of water. "Reasonable" new laws quickly morph into unreasonable nonsense in modern America. (Look at the Patriot Act for proof of that)

3. The Constitution is absolutely more important than life and safety. Otherwise the USA holds no ground whatsoever to send military personel off to fight wars. Those who are willing to surrender their liberty in exchange for an illusion of safety deserve neither.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:45 PM
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burdman30ott6

CardiffGiant
what happened to school fights being the worst you had to worry about?
[SNIP]so what is it?
what is causing kids to freak out and start killing people?


Zero tolerance happened. They removed the ability of teenaged males to participate in the developmentally vital process of fighting to establish a pecking order, defend themselves, posture, and deal with raging testosterone. Zero tolerance policies are akin to plugging the petcock on a pressure cooker. Without the ability to vent steam, the pot will eventually explode.



i think that is another part of this problem.
all this content going on around us and people are not allowed to have feelings and emotions anymore.
freedom of speech and expression as long as you dont say anything.
people are just starting to boil over.

instead of taking care of the bully the first time they get messed with in 7th grade, they deal with it for 3 years and then crack up and waste the entire class.
something like that



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:47 PM
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Agent008
reply to post by CardiffGiant
 


But in 3rd world countries there is death, violence, rape and they don't have video games or Internet. I think humanity is simply losing touch with its humanity. No matter how nice a person is everyone has limits to the amount of despair they can take before lashing out. Those who feel unloved or rejected often are the ones who snap. Imo.


i think youre heading the right direction.
i think it comes down to mentally people can just not handle the world that we live in. all the things that have been mentioned.
could it be a simple as it is just the world we live in?



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 03:56 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 





3. The Constitution is absolutely more important than life and safety. Otherwise the USA holds no ground whatsoever to send military personel off to fight wars. Those who are willing to surrender their liberty in exchange for an illusion of safety deserve neither.


I can agree with your first comments but not this.

Sorry but in the UK we have no constitution and we can still fight wars and so on, but you cant fight a war if you dont have any troops to fight. There is nothing more important that life, that includes some old bit of paper.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 04:05 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 





3. The Constitution is absolutely more important than life and safety. Otherwise the USA holds no ground whatsoever to send military personel off to fight wars. Those who are willing to surrender their liberty in exchange for an illusion of safety deserve neither.


I can agree with your first comments but not this.

Sorry but in the UK we have no constitution and we can still fight wars and so on, but you cant fight a war if you dont have any troops to fight. There is nothing more important that life, that includes some old bit of paper.



Considering you are in the UK I don't think your comments about American laws hold any weight. (For the record I tend to agree with your comments, with the exception of our Constitution. I'd suggest sticking to threads about your Magna Carta and butt out of American business)



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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Hands up kids, you are all suspects at this time.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
There is nothing more important that life, that includes some old bit of paper.



The paper the document is written on really doesn't matter... it is the concepts, guidelines, and promises held within the document's words that matter. Yes, protecting and preserving those concepts in their entirety is more important than my own life. My children deserve the embracement of our Constitution.

Further, no amount of gun control will stop murders and mass killings in America. I absolutely refuse to disregard the Constitution for a false sense of security.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


I am glad you brought this up burdman.

I have been thinking over the actual causes that may be behind the recent (past decade or so) uptick of mass shootings. I think a lot of it is obscured by agenda (frequently gun control, from both sides).

Something is up, something is creating an environment where these things happen more frequently and access to guns has not dramatically changed in the same time period (in fact, gun crimes have gone down).

It pointed to a few things to me;

Pharmaceuticals
Communications Technology
Un-natural Social Programming (zero tolerance, and others)

It may be any combination of these things, but something is going on and it makes my hair stand on end. Especially given that these things just turn into propaganda in short order, without actual research and exploration. It could even be something else entirely, but something is changing the pattern.

Given the site we are on, it might also be monarch programming to push an agenda to criminalize gun owndership so that a corporate/private industry take over of the United States becomes much more feasible.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by NickDC202
 





I'd suggest sticking to threads about your Magna Carta and butt out of American business


you can suggest it all you want but i will post on any thread that i want.

I mean no disrespect to your constitution all i am saying is that the values that it holds have basically been raped anyway and to sit about and say "But the second amendment says so"..... after 20 kids have been killed for me means that if that is the only thing standing in your way of fixing this gun violence problem then it should be changed.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by CardiffGiant
 





my daughter is not of school age yet. i might have to home school


That is a great idea. I think you should definitely do it .



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