'Giants' appearing in the west...

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

But the question remains, if the sculptors learned this craft to create these 800 statues, why didn't they pass their techniques down to their apprentices? Why isn't this art widespread throughout ancient China throughout the various dynasties? It just seems odd that these sculptors would go through such painstaking lessons to learn a sculpting technique, only to NOT preserve it for future generations to utilize.

It just seems to make more sense that it was learned from outside the empire and was considered such an embarrassment, that after the first emperor died, they sealed the technique with the 8000 statues and just left it at that.

from what i've read, it was about money.

other rulers had buried armies but they were doll sized.

i would love to see the inside of that tomb.

reply to post by Char-Lee


They wouldn't even have to let people in they could each use some responsible representatives to go in there and digitally photograph everything and release it like that on their own website even, so that the ancient documents don't get damaged.

Its in the Chinese people's DNA. They probably copied everything back then up to even today with fake iphones, ipads, fake Rolls Royce smh.

Wrabbit2000


...The only resemblance I see between Greek art of the time and the Warriors is they're both bipedal humanoid figures in relief. The similarity ends there, I believe.

Second... Every single one of the 8,000 faces is unique and individual. One of the strangest details of the story for these and one aspect that makes it unlike anything Ancient Greece or Rome produced in the way of sculpture or art. These weren't art. They represented a battle force for the Emperor in the next life, as the strongest theory I've heard....

Last.. These things are Creepy with a BIG C. I mean it more than strictly figuratively too. Something I have never been able to put my finger on about these.. Even the scale mock-up the PRC puts on at the China Segment of Epcot is creepy and the artifacts resonate with it.

I have no idea what the men who found this felt. Not saw..not recorded as scientists, but actually felt in their Souls when they fully grasped the scene they had first encountered when any of this was visible. I'd love to hear it..and something tells me, that question wouldn't need elaboration for the men that were there to know precisely what was being asked about. Those things just..vibrate with weird.

Excellent critique, Wrabbit. The Chinese terra cotta figures look nothing like the marble statues of ancient Greece or Rome.

I agree there is something "creepy" about the Chinese figures, as if one can sense they were actually clay containers for the souls of the people they portrayed -- to be buried for eternity with their emperor, slaves forever on the Astral.

Dark magick for sure. Really creepy.

Wrabbit2000 Those things just..vibrate with weird.

Great post all of it.

I agree. The first time I saw that, I felt as if they were going to come to life lol. That was before movies made that happen.

I'd debated whether to share this or not, but since others get that weird feeling as well?

What I felt around the real artifacts and mock-ups at Epcot was weird... We'd gone at the off time for attendance so it was very light for other people. Not a mob scene by any stretch and gave some room to focus and take in what China has created there for their national display.

It was like a presence..but not. Like an energy around those things..but not actually. Hard to describe... almost like echos of something very strong and very powerful (would HAVE to have been) still carried by artifacts. I dunno... It's very hard to describe, but I wonder if some here recognize what I'm trying to articulate?

reply to post by redoubt

South America simply reek of Oriental cultural connection.

I always noticed that,

reply to post by peter vlar


Certainly it does. This is all interesting stuff, and we are going to need more information to come to light so we can get some context on why and how this was done. Until then, anything we discuss is all guesswork.

very interesting Slayer and yes i find these topics to be enjoyable, thank you.

seems to me giants are also tied into Indonesian culture as well, which would be a far closer culture than Greece, perhaps these cultures stem from the same source, or traded far more frequently then thought.

it is said giants are in many cultural history's which begs the question, where they a real people? i think there is quite a lot we shall discover in the upcoming days and many of them will be things we scoffed at or laughed at in the past, only to realize they were real all along.

so much has been hidden from us, it's actually pathetic to think about, but tomorrow is another day...

Wrabbit2000
I'd debated whether to share this or not, but since others get that weird feeling as well?

What I felt around the real artifacts and mock-ups at Epcot was weird... We'd gone at the off time for attendance so it was very light for other people. Not a mob scene by any stretch and gave some room to focus and take in what China has created there for their national display.

It was like a presence..but not. Like an energy around those things..but not actually. Hard to describe... almost like echos of something very strong and very powerful (would HAVE to have been) still carried by artifacts. I dunno... It's very hard to describe, but I wonder if some here recognize what I'm trying to articulate?

recognize i do and i best describe it of myself as, "remembering inside" that in and of itself is huge. these artifacts have no "power" of their own, the power is carried within us all and also the memory's and experiences.

Thorneblood
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

This guy was so obsessed with power he built the Great Wall, so fearful of death he sought out immortality and may have colonized Japan as a by product of his beliefs. I know he sought out some ancient wizard to help ensure he lived forever, and i know he searched for the Elixir of Life. So i kinda doubt someone of this man's mentality would go to the time and expense of having 12 giant statues carved before his palace as anything but a warning, or a threat.

edit on 13-12-2013 by Thorneblood because: (no reason given)

Reality and fiction, rarely come hand in hand ...

He built the wall, to ward of the mongols ... which later became the ruling class of China. He was not fearful of death, but worried for his empire. The empire was built during the 7 kingdoms, and he had built his empire against all odds. He survived only, because Xianyang had a terra advantage. He built it based on laws, which punished poor as well as rich ... and his fears were proven right. The Qin empire fell, and in it's wage the Han dinasty rose. And with it, the feared mongols became a heart of the Chinese empire ... it didn't "merely" start with Ghengis Kahn. He merely played the final role.

The story of the Greek/Roman warriors, is simply a fact of "scandinavian" populace that lived on Chinas western most territories. That lost against the Qin/Han chinese, and eventually fled to the west ... not a popular theme in China. So, it's been reduced to "Greek/Roman mercenaries", because an influence of the greek/roman has been proven in the area, both from coins and cloathes. This is because the Chinese are battling the "persian/muslim" part of it's own China, and don't want this "persian/muslim" part to grab any historical background to support their claims ... or "India's" claim on Chinese territories.

However the "origin" of the Scandinavian is absolute. They called themselves "Gods" in chinese terms, and referred to themselves as Asian, hence the word "Asar", which means "Asian". They were not "Asian" in our sense of "Asian". But our view of the normal Scandinavian is obscured by the fact, that the populace almost died out during the famine and pestilence period 1100-1300s, to a degree of 70% of the populace. The current known "scandinavian" is in reality a German/Holland origin, from the flamish areas in Europe. Which is why their "language" is, as it is ... They populated the area, afterwards ...

Wether the 500, that the Qin emperror sent away are the base of the populace of Japan, remains to be seen. I am not quite familiar with that story, but it is extremely interresting in this context.

Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Klassified

 

I wouldn't say I'm the educated one.. I'm fresh from a course so it's all still in immediate memory, is about what I can say for it.

I suppose inspired is possible.. What bugs me though, is simply this. China had a number of major inventions a very long time before Europe knew they existed. Gun Powder was only one thing China came up with and wasn't at all interested in sharing or spreading to anyone but themselves. They were, in ways, an extremely closed society ...In ways, anyway.

So, I read through the story and I could not, for the life of me, find a connection where this started and someone said "uhhh.. hey..guys? These might be related!". It honestly read more like a Westerner looking at Chinese culture and saying, "Okay, how did Western methods and outcomes get to China?". Hmm... It's actually possible they came up with it all on their own, is my thought.

The 8,000 of them is also staggering..and what many accounts don't detail is that it isn't JUST 8,000 Warriors standing at attention like an endless parade ground. It was a full battle force of the time, with versions of their various weapons and platforms as well, such as they had them.

So thats really why I stepped back a bit. I just didn't see the Ah-Ha connection...even at the end and looking back...for a natural connection, let alone assuming one direction vs. the other.

yeah, wabbit. china goes back way before the greeks.

they didn't tell anyone how silk was made, when they were trading with the romans for couple hundred years. state secret, death penalty.

look at the terracotta horses and chariots they uncovered. do they look greek?

subsequent rulers had way smaller "doll" armies, than chin.
i mean small in size.

i would love to see the inside of chin's tomb.

sorry for the drift.

redoubt
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

China's history from about 500 (or so) years ago to it's first emperor, is often found to be less than revealing. One example? The 'Forbidden City' was just wayyy off limits even during periods of the 20th century.

And it's not just China. Japan is cloaked in mystique as well, with an emperor-ship that was regarded as part deity up until the end of WW2. In fact, in the 19th century, the US basically had to force this nation to open just a few doors to the west. In retrospect, one might disagree with the tactic but it is history and there is a lesson.

Back to China, there is also the story of a great admiral and a great fleet that sallied forth across the Indian and Pacific Oceans to spread China's influence and culture. Moreover, many relics found today in certain areas of South America simply reek of Oriental cultural connection.

Ancient Greece was a very important influence upon the world. That China was in contact with them at the time, is by no means out of the question. It is, in all point of fact, just one more statement of how much we don't know about how we got here today.

edit on 13-12-2013 by redoubt because: typo repair (bill enclosed lol)

yes, it was a huge fleet.

some evidence they beat columbus here by 70yrs or so, in florida, iirc.

anyway, it is said, that they returned to china and said that there was really nothing out there of interest, and closed up shop.

not sure if they came close to the med and the greeks.

they would have sail around india and africa.



"From 1405 to 1433, large fleets commanded by Admiral Zheng He—under the auspices of the Yongle Emperor of the Ming Dynasty—traveled to the Indian Ocean seven times. This attempt did not lead China to global expansion, as the Confucian bureaucracy under the next emperor reversed the policy of open exploration and by 1500, it became a capital offence to build a seagoing junk with more than two masts.[16] Chinese merchants became content trading with already existing tributary states nearby and abroad. To them, traveling far east into the Pacific Ocean represented entering a broad wasteland of water with uncertain benefits of trade. While British author Gavin Menzies once asserted in his book 1421: The Year China Discovered the World that Zheng likely traveled as far as the Americas, this is not supported by scholarship and there is no evidence to suggest that this is the case. Similarly, the proposal by Paul Chiasson that the Chinese established a settlement in Nova Scotia has not met with acceptance."

en.wikipedia.org...

ok, i have it a little messed up, but it doesn't seem like they met the greeks by sea.


ooooooooh they still wouldn't have the time and influence for the statues.


The Greeks remained in Central Asia for the next three centuries, first through the administration of the Seleucid Empire, and then with the establishment of the Greco-Bactrian Kingdom in Bactria. They continued to expand eastward, especially during the reign of Euthydemus (230–200 BC) who extended his control beyond Alexandria Eschate to Sogdiana. There are indications that he may have led expeditions as far as Kashgar in Chinese Turkestan, leading to the first known contacts between China and the West around 200 BC. The Greek historian Strabo writes, "they extended their empire even as far as the Seres (China) and the Phryni." [15]

en.wikipedia.org...

and
Qin Shi Huang (Wade-Giles: Ch'in Shih Huang; Chinese: 秦始皇; 260 BC – 210 BC);[1] personal name: Zhao Zheng (Wade-Giles: Chao Cheng; Chinese: 趙政 or 趙正);[2][3] was the king of the Chinese State of Qin from 246 BC to 221 BC, during the Warring States period.[4] He became the first emperor of a unified China in 221 BC.[4] He ruled until his death in 210 BC at the age of 49.[5]

en.wikipedia.org...

yeah, sorry for all the wiki.

Interestingly, there are similarities in other shapes of pottery, for example, functional vessels. Given the nature of the production of such wares and their proliferation and widespread popularity spanning vast areas, it stands to reason that cultural influences reached many areas.

A few well travelled renowned potters with an esteemed reputation and a particular style, could easily have influence spanning nations and cultures.

www.ancient.eu.com...

Painters often worked in collective workshops, generally under the supervision of one ‘master’ potter (which suggests form was actually more important than decoration for the Greeks). Although artists were free from centralised political control or restrictions, they no doubt were driven by the market demand for particular styles, subjects, and fashions. Many potters and artists were prolific in their output and in some cases over 200 vases may be attributed to a single artist. The majority of pottery workers would have been paid no more than any other manual labourer and a good vase probably cost only a day’s wages. Certainly though, a few artists would have been in great demand and their goods were sold not only locally but far and wide throughout the Mediterranean. Potters themselves sometimes relocated to other cities, particularly colonies, often taking with them their regional style. There was also some rivalry between artists as indicated by one signed comment on a vase, “better than Euphronias could ever have done”.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Two things, one logical, and one... not.

Firstly, you spoke of xenophobia before, and I couldn't help but think: Regardless of the level of xenophobia in a society, we are all still oh too similar. There would undoubtedly be those in the closed-off society who, possessed a curiosity that enabled them to forgo their ingrained natures and extended their hands to those they considered outsiders.

Secondly, I can't help but get eerie feelings when looking at those warriors myself. I hadn't really thought about it until I read this article. My first impression is death, massive death. They represent death. Second impression of them is skulls. I see skulls behind their eyes, almost like they have the bones of dead warriors hidden inside. Freaky.