German police build 'Nazi Shazam' to track banned music

reply to post by freedomwv


A democracy, properly implemented, must go with the flow - the will of the people. Fighting the threat of tyranny by using the methods of tyranny defeats democracy from the get-go. How do you answer this conundrum?

reply to post by freedomwv


I understand and the globalization of democratic fascism (Japan, EU, US) has taken over. What I don't understand is peoples acceptance of the blatantly fascist control. Banning music because it's neo-nazi? I think we have bigger problems than music as German government is proving once again.

I don't believe the neo-nazi's are the threat regardless of their militant nationalism. In the case of the article I posted, when looking into it and cross referencing from Google I came across an old debunked CT that Angela Merkel was Hitlers daughter. I guess it's a moot point anyway, she may as well be.

As I said, there are far worse threats in the world than Neo-Nazis and their music. We're all living it every day.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


And of course there's no doubt that you know the 'real history' unlike deluded ignorant 'sheeple' such as myself, never mind you don't know anything about me other than I consider your initial statement antisemitic, and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to be a discredited hoax.

reply to post by cuckooold


You only think I mentioned the Protocols. The truth is, NONE of us really knows what happened, so get over it. In the end, our opinions relate more to what we have read, and who we are willing to believe, than what the facts are. I may be an opinionated jerk (I may deny it, too) but I do attempt to see past the politically-correct propaganda which is just about everywhere.

"Ohhhhhh - evil Nazis! Good thing they were defeated by the virtuous forces of democracy!" Such thinking misses the fact that the German Nazis came to power by the agency of the free democratic process. It's human nature, isn't it? All is right with the world when your party is in power, but when the evil, other party is in power, the end of civilization is just around the corner. Don't you see that the problem is far FAR deeper than Germans vs Jews or Nazis vs Commies?

cuckooold
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

And of course there's no doubt that you know the 'real history' unlike deluded ignorant 'sheeple' such as myself, never mind you don't know anything about me other than I consider your initial statement antisemitic, and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion to be a discredited hoax.

edit on 12-12-2013 by cuckooold because: (no reason given)

Well, your mention of the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion (get the title straight) alerted me to get the terminology correct in the post you so object to. I really should have said "Zionist" rather than "Jewish" - my bad, but that is as far as I will backpedal.

freedomwv
If it was not for the solidarity and rock hard fighting spirit of the worker`s of the Soviet Union, the Nazi might have actually fully taken over.

I hope you're trolling.

wingsfan

freedomwv
If it was not for the solidarity and rock hard fighting spirit of the worker`s of the Soviet Union, the Nazi might have actually fully taken over.

I hope you're trolling.

Did you check his sig?

Lazarus Short
reply to post by cuckooold

 

You only think I mentioned the Protocols. The truth is, NONE of us really knows what happened, so get over it.

Oh no, I don't think you mentioned the Protocols at all, I merely used it as an example of partisan hoaxed rubbish I'd consider unsuitable to be used as any sort of proof of Jewish or Zionist conspiracies.

Get over it - get over what?

When someone suggests that both the Communist revolution and the Nazi phenomena in Germany were both the results of Jewish plotting do you not think this is indicative of antisemitic thinking as well as scapegoating of the worst kind.

You say do your own research, but the burden of proof falls on the one making outrageous claims. You claimed that Jews are responsible for said items; prove it

reply to post by cuckooold


I will not attempt to prove anything to you or to anyone else. I'm done with that time-waster. If you want proof, at least SOUND receptive. Besides, I dropped the "J" word, so you should too.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Dropping of the 'J' word is useful, and the use of 'Zionist' is much more informative.

I still don't know that I agree with all of your claims, but certainly there is much more leeway and room for discussion when using the term 'Zionist'.

Lazarus Short
...I doubt that history, real history, aligns with most peoples' idea of it.

You hit the nail on the head. Political correctness was designed to be another way of controlling people and their thoughts (and in return, beliefs). It acts like a funnel, or rather like the little shades on horses heads that only allow them to see one way: Where their masters want them to see. Political correctness aids to ban certain speech or thoughts on a peer to peer basis. It's the ultimate tool.

However, I'm divulging far from the topic and my apologies.

On topic:

I love Shazam, you have no clue how many awesome 80's songs I've found thanks to that little piece of software. I mean literally, it's the greatest thing since sliced bread! (I remember back in the day when if you wanted a sandwich, you had to use two whole loafs of bread!)

It's sad to think that the same technology that helped me find so many of the hits I remember hearing as a kid (Girls on Film by Duran Duran, Pop Muzik by M and a slew of others like The Safety Dance and my personal favorite: "Who Could it be Now?" by Men at Work) to oppress certain types of music. It's all so 1984ish.

Out of the estimated 82,656,067 people living in Germany today, there are roughly 26,000 Neo Nazi's. That's 0.03%. So, Are Neo-Nazi's really that big of a threat? (These numbers do not take into account White Nationalists or run of the mill "racists".)

With that in mind, lets take a look at another demographic. Islam.

Of the three million plus Muslims, one thousand have been tied to terrorist groups and organizations. That's also 0.03%. (This does not take into consideration of the self imposed segregation of Turkish Muslims and their anti-Homosexual, anti-Semitic and anti-Atheist views.)

With ethnic Germans reproduction rates going down and the ever growing Muslim birth rates and immigrants, which of the two groups (Neo-Nazi's / Islamic extremists) will be a bigger threat?

The point I'm trying to make is that Germany is reacting to a non-issue. The crime from the 0.03 Neo Nazi's pale in comparison to even regular day to day crime by the regular populace.



Sources:
en.wikipedia.org...
worldpopulationreview.com...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.ilaam.net...
WebCite
www.onlineconversion.com... (For those who'd like to try the numbers themselves.)

reply to post by freedomwv


The problem as I see it is not so much that Nazi propaganda is banned... Who decides what music is "Nazi Music"? That is a huge issue imo. I've seen bands like Rammstein accused of being "nazi music". So it's a very thin red line that the Germans are treading on here.

Bedlam
csb: My next younger brother married a nice Jewish girl. During the wedding, they played the standard Bridal Chorus music. I leaned over to her brother in law and said, "that's sort of ballsy, innit?", Norbert said "What?" and I said "Playing Wagner at a Jewish wedding, even if she is marrying a goyim".

That's when I realized he didn't know "Here Comes the Bride" is a Wagner piece. Whoops. Some of his friends had played that at their weddings. It's definitely Non Kosher.

Indeed. Jews should play the Mendelssohn.

www.youtube.com...

(it's even Mendelssohn's old band!)

Sounds like Germany is banning neo-Nazi music.

Paleo-Nazi music? Hell ja.

reply to post by Bassago


I see there is no way for any government to get positive feedback.

If nazi music was let played and the views spread, Germany would get criticized for letting it happen due to history.

If Germany bans nazi music, they get criticized for using similar tactics to Nazis.

There is no win-win situation, which would leave everybody satisfied, someone will always whine and critisize.


I personally do not agree with such black and white view. There is a gray area. No absolutely every single thing about different ideologies is bad. The same way we could say: close public schools and prisons, because in Nazi-Germany these existed...

I personally agree with their decision. Nazism has created a stain in the country´s history and it is still a soft spot - shame- for the country. No wonder letting certain group legally spread such things is not let happen. We don´t let publicly terrorists persuade people to become suicide bombers, just the same this is not let happen legally.

Everything depends on the implementation of different policies. If implemented well, policies can do be extremely beneficial as well as bad implementation can do serious harm to society.. I have nothing against hate speech being banned, for example. Nobody should be able to publicly call up for violence against somebody or spread hate towards some group. This only leads to more people with extremist views out of whom at some weaker ones might go towards extremist actions. Full-on political correctness, just as full-on free speech have both the same negative effects and are equally absurd. There are common sense lines inbetween - extreme hate, strong insults, calling up for violence etc are something that should not be tolerated.

reply to post by Cabin


If Germany (or the US, etc) were to come out saying they completely support free speech I would applaud them. That's not to say that instigating riots or hate crimes are condoned but banning specific types of music is exactly what Nazi Germany did. It is actually imitating the behavior they claim their trying to distance themselves from.

I personally do not agree with such black and white view. There is a gray area. No absolutely every single thing about different ideologies is bad. The same way we could say: close public schools and prisons, because in Nazi-Germany these existed...

I see this from the opposite perspective, Germany is basically saying "Hey, suppressing music worked for the Nazis we should do it too." Maybe not by speaking the words but by their actions.

reply to post by freedomwv


germany has that problem because their over aggressiveness in escaping the past, using oppression to stop anything only makes people fight harder, hate deeper and become more extreme in their beliefs, what they are doing will only backfire and lead to extremist violent neo-nazi attacks on their own people one day if they keep doing things like this.

many forget how violently people resisted and despised nazism the preceding years to hitler's rise to power and that the nazi's only gained power due to the people being weakened emotionally because of desperation not by real support or belief in their ideologies, the people were promised many great things and given hope to escape the misery they faced daily.

germany is being foolish and making the situation worse, they don't understand that even by silencing them it wont stop it from coming back, if the situation is right nazism or something just as extreme will always gain power regardless of ideological beliefs of the electorate or any barring of literature, music, art etc which promotes said political entity.

as long as people desire safety, unity, abundance and stability the threat of extremism gaining control will always be there even if you ban mention or promotion of it, indeed such acts only creates justification in the extremists eyes and even leads people onto the extremist path because their feeling of repression for loss of personal freedom to understand and choose their own beliefs and ideologies.
keep it up germany and war will be in your streets and the blood of many will spill in your desire to run away and hide from the past instead of trying to understand it and facing it with knowledge not silence because silence creates ignorance.

reply to post by Bassago


In Nazi Germany everything opposing/negative towards government was banned. Currently only the extremist ideology, which has caused serious harm for the world, as well as left inredibly negative mark on the history of the country is banned and suppressed.

These are not comparable.

In Nazi-Germany murders and thefts were illegal, are we using Nazi-tactics when we also ban murder?

As I explained, gray area exists, which vast majority of people can understand. Calling for hate towards certain minority group or even violence against them is wrong and should not be tolerated.

The same way criminal laws exist. Man should not able to do whatever they want. It is not justified if somebody kills somebody. There are common lines accepted to be wrong in nearly every country. Murder, theft etc.

Why should a man be able to say whatever they want? Spread views, which would influence others to do crime? Saying somebody should be killed/die is not far from actually doing the action... If you spread it long enough, some idiot might actually be brainwashed to do it.

There are common sense rules, which could be enacted in free speech just as in criminal law. Everything depends on where the lines are drawn. If done well, these would benefit the society, removing public extremism spreading and hate, if done bad, it would suppress actual free speech.

I believe in banning the most extreme hate speech, just the same as most extreme actions are banned.

namehere
...using oppression to stop anything only makes people fight harder, hate deeper and become more extreme in their beliefs, what they are doing will only backfire...

You're absolutely right. Not to sound condescending, but this is a great analogy: "What happens when you don't listen to a child? Do they get quieter when they struggle for your attention? No, they get louder.".

If governments were more open to actually listening to these fringe groups as they too are real people it would give them a sense of being listened to and not marginalized and prevent them from becoming more extreme. It would be a vent of sorts. Plus, it would be a great way to help identify the people involved in these groups.

This goes for all extremist groups, Neo Nazi's, Islamists etc. Not sure if this is the answer to anything, but neither is banning things either.

I could post tons and tons more, but I'm not in the mood and I have to run.

the "active Nazi scene" has around 300-500 hardcore members, 5000 max. if you count in all the satelites and affiliates around them... in a country of 82 million... so much for a "threat" to democracy... i live in germany ALL my life, i m of greek origin, so that would make me a potential target to any "nazi"... but you know what? nothing,... whatsoever...

this thing is blown WAY out of proportion to justify fascistoid methods being applied (the banning of political parties, music, thoughts)... if you ban something you force it underground, where it festers and inflamates... you can t ban thoughts... thats the highest delusion of tptb-control freaks...

yes, extremism of any kind is evil and generAlly bad for society, but so is oppression. So it s ok for your side to use fascistoid methods to justify your means? yeah right...

a democracy should be able to handle ANY fringe thinking without resorting to oppresive means itself...

Yes you are all correct.....Nazi = Naughty.

Lets ban VWs...they were Nazis, Lets destroy all Porsches...because Ferry was a Nazi worker.

Ban all Nazi free speech, in fact bring back the "Stasi".,,,sort of rhymes with Nazi..oh well just a coincidence.

Ban All freedom of music expression by White people, they are all Nazis.....

Oh Whats that? What about all the Moslems demonstrating in the streets of Germany and the rest of Europe?
The ones that chant, death to white peoples, Kill the police etc etc....

Oh, that's OK....they are just expressing their freedom of religion...totally normal...

Now those nasty Nazis tho...........