Mysterious object block Seattle tunnel progress

ignorant_ape
reply to post by Arken

 

a better question is - why do you think it should be able to cut steel ?

a better question is - why do you think I think so?

I don't think that.

The Big Bertha can grind any kind of rock but no steel.
So: Is the mystery object made of Steel?

We have a possible explanation from those familiar with the work of tunnel boring. it seems that 'Bertha' could not break through a large boulder embedded in loose soil. The boulder could shift around as the boring machine tried to crack it, preventing solid contact, and so, an efficient transfer of the energy.

This is the most 'boring' thread I have ever seen on this site
Do you know that the boring machine actually has a twitter account? You learn something useless every day lol

Bertha the tunnel boring machine hasn't updated 'her' Twitter page in a couple of days. No fresh news elsewhere, either. To keep this thread from becoming too 'boring', a little speculation might not be amiss. Dr. Albert Einstein said 'Imagination is more important than knowledge'.
Supposing that whatever is obstructing Bertha's progress isn't merely a boulder, what could it be? How about a sentinel device, buried by visiting extraterrestrials a couple million years ago?
It could be set to power up when disturbed, as we have just done by nibbling at it with a tunnel boring machine. It might already have made an evaluation of our current level of civilization by scanning Bertha. It could learn more about us observing how we go about examining and analyzing it, after we remove it from underground.
Perhaps this sentinel will transmit what it has learned back to its makers, if it has not already done so.
Why would the location of Seattle, Washington have been selected to receive such a sentinel? A couple of million years ago, this location was just about as far as possible from the primitive beginnings of the human line, in East central Africa. Maybe these ETs wanted to see what we would make of ourselves. Would we continue to exist? Would we expand our territory across the planet. What would we have accomplished by this time?

For comic relief, here is another theory on what's blocking Bertha, while we wait for more news. A little nonsense or a joke is relished by the wisest folks. After this, I'll 'clam up' for a while!
www.komonews.com...

Bertha back on Twitter, reporting on progress with the wells and pumping out of ground water. Inspection of the blockage could commence as early as tomorrow or Saturday. Bertha also noted national mainstream media interest in the story: NBC, and CBS television, the New York Times.
twitter.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

1889 a cabinet shop with glue and lacquer next to a saloon and liquor store next to an opera house.
I was just reading this prior to seeing this thread. Maybe it was mentioned already or common knowledge or not in the right areas. It sounded to me like they rebuilt higher to clear damage maybe? Maybe they threw some dirt and started over. Stacks of plates fused together.

They had wooden water lines (hollowed out trees) joined end to end and apparently raised above ground gold panner style. The whole water system even though they had big elaborate buildings was a total failure and inadequate to combat the blaze. Pipes actually were consumed in the fire, firemen were forced to quit from barrages of insults.. Martial law was enacted and 600 businessmen moved in.

I was also looking up sewer issues in San Diego in 1880's they slapped the towns up cut corners and issues didn't hit them for twenty years or more. I was under the impression that Rome had piping and were masters of bathhouses etc. So you wonder where English and Spanish and French settlers came from? Did they live under rocks over there? Why didn't they really understand how to build a planned settlement.
www.sandiegoyesterday.com... scroll down most of the pics tell some good history for descriptions.



What on earth were they thinking here? I guess it was the land grab mindset.

I have another thread about wooden water pipes in ancient&forgotten just trying to piece some different ideas together. will be interesting to see what they find..

would be nice to see them digging it by hand and with screens too..

Below, a link to a Seattle Times article. Not the newest, but it has information not given in other articles. Perhaps the most interesting facts:
1.) Bertha can 'swallow' objects up to three feet in diameter, and eject them onto its conveyor belt, which removes excavated material from the tunnel.
We can assume that the object in question is larger than this. Larger boulders are relatively rare, so the chances of Bertha encountering one were low.
2.) Bertha is working in glacial till, not relatively loose fill dirt. Glacial till is soil and rock that generally has a firm consistency.
This makes somewhat improbable the leading theory of the obstruction. Supposedly, a boulder in loose soil shifted around as Bertha tried to break it up, thereby preventing it from making solid contact. This in turn prevented the boulder from being destroyed.
3.) Small inspection borings and ground penetrating radar were employed, all along the tunnel route. No large boulders were indicated.
We have the improbability of a large boulder, combined with the unlikelihood of it resting in loose soil, combined with the low odds of it not having been detected in the preparatory work. The more we learn about this story, the stranger it appears.
seattletimes.com...

reply to post by Ross 54


All that is rather interesting and nice to see glued together, helps clear up things for me as to why it is taking so long. It has gotta be hard to move something you don't want seen when everyone is watching to see what is there to begin with.

It's not clear that the Washington State Department of Transportation, which is in charge of this project, is interested in preventing anyone finding out what is delaying Bertha. If they do, they're going about it in mighty peculiar way! The Bertha Twitter site is updated frequently, with news of how the effort to learn the nature of the obstruction is going.
The latest there is that someone made his way in through the tunnel boring machine, and looked out the front hatch to see what could be seen. Nothing was, which seems surprising in itself. Pumping, through existing and new wells, will reportedly continue to reduce the pressure of water-saturated soil, so that a more thorough inspection can be made safely.

I doubt that it would be possible to conceal the nature of the tunnel obstruction. A three billion dollar freeway tunnel project, in the midst of a major American city, involving the largest tunnel-boring machine on the planet has been brought to a standstill. Anything that can do that, whether it is merely uncovered, or is brought out of that tunnel, will be quite conspicuous, it seems.

Ross 54
It's not clear that the Washington State Department of Transportation, which is in charge of this project, is interested in preventing anyone finding out what is delaying Bertha. If they do, they're going about it in mighty peculiar way! The Bertha Twitter site is updated frequently, with news of how the effort to learn the nature of the obstruction is going.
The latest there is that someone made his way in through the tunnel boring machine, and looked out the front hatch to see what could be seen. Nothing was, which seems surprising in itself. Pumping, through existing and new wells, will reportedly continue to reduce the pressure of water-saturated soil, so that a more thorough inspection can be made safely.

I doubt that it would be possible to conceal the nature of the tunnel obstruction. A three billion dollar freeway tunnel project, in the midst of a major American city, involving the largest tunnel-boring machine on the planet has been brought to a standstill. Anything that can do that, whether it is merely uncovered, or is brought out of that tunnel, will be quite conspicuous, it seems.

this is so wrong

thr open is, and will always be, the best place to hide something.

the essence of a good cover story and magician

we know the cover story

A Friday, Seattle Times blog reports that groundwater has begun to run into the exposed sections of the tunneling machine. The excess water will have to be pumped out through the newly built wells before further inspection can be conducted.
We find confirmed there, the report that a lone inspector was able to look at the area ahead of the 'cutting face' of the machine, by peering out through a hatch at the front. Nothing unusual, and nothing amounting to an obstruction was seen. If water is actually standing in the tunnel, it may be concealing the obstruction.

It was briefly mentioned some time ago that something might have become lodged between the rotary cutting face and the rest of the machine. A problem of this sort might not have been apparent during the brief inspection.
blogs.seattletimes.com...

And now we have reached the best time of the year to move anything that is hidden in that tunnel out of the way, if they haven't already.

If they want to remove the object from the tunnel, there are some practical problems. Bertha can not back out of the tunnel. It constructs a concrete tunnel lining that is smaller than its own diameter, behind it as it goes forward.

They could try to destroy the object where it stands. If they want to save it intact for some reason, they could dig down to it from above. Digging a large 60 foot deep pit and lifting the object from it, presumably with a crane, wouldn't be exactly inconspicuous within the confines of a major city, especially with all the interest this thing has generated.

I know one of the workers kids plays minecraft.
The black and white rock is indestructable. noobs.

According to this post on the Washington State Department of Transportation website, they don't know yet what is blocking Bertha and don't expect to know more until at least after New Year's. They are still drilling wells and pumping out water (over 300,000 gallons as of Dec. 20th) so that they can get a better look.

Still hoping for secret underground base of galactic operations for Starbucks and Microsoft...

The ability to determine the nature of the tunnel blockage by the early days of Jan., 2014 reportedly depends on the success of the effort to pump out excess groundwater. If this fails, a more time-consuming project involving the creation of an air-pressurized caisson around the front of the drilling machine may be necessary.

I just emailed the spokeswoman for Seattle Tunnel Partners, the contractor for this project. I asked if the pumping is making any discernible progress in reducing the groundwater in the surrounding soil, or if new water could be running in as fast as the old is pumped out. Will post any answer I receive in this thread.

The long New York Times article by Kirk Johnson, about the tunnel project obstacle, has made its way into my regional newspaper, the Santa Rosa (CA) Press Democrat. It appeared there on Dec. 27th. I infer from this that there is continued widespread interest in, and knowledge of the 'Bertha' situation.
Geologist David B. Williams is quoted near the end of the article. Speaking about the leading theory, that Bertha has run into a large boulder, he says: "I do hope it is not. It would be great to find some new mystery." If a man of science can speak like that, I have no hesitancy in agreeing with his remarks.
As Dr. Albert Einstein said: "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

The latest news on the Seattle tunnel obstruction: They have probed down into the tunnel from above, driving in probes every few feet in the area immediately before Bertha. No obstruction has been detected. Such probing will continue today.
On Thursday an inspection team will move forward within the boring machine. They will inspect its cutting head and the problem area of the tunnel. They will try to turn the cutting head so that all parts of it can be checked for problems.
seattletimes.com...

Continued probing of the front of Bertha's tunnel failed to reveal an obstruction there. The working theory now is that something is lodged inside the cutting head of the machine. If this is geological in nature, its probably an elongated boulder. It's width is presumably under three feet, so that it could enter the machine in the first place. Its length could be substantially greater. They still intend to turn the cutting head to get a look at all parts of it. That could be done as early as today.
www.kirotv.com...