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NYPD investigation into Kenya's Westgate Mall terror attacks reveals the truth behind the massacr

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posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by SloAnPainful
 

I just thought conspiracy theorists would be jumping on the implication in the wording that NYPD were "expecting" a violent terrorist attack on a shopping mall.
Popular ATS threads have been founded on less.


New York Police Department has conducted its own in-depth analysis of the September attack which killed more than 60 at the Westgate Shopping Mall in Nairobi. It was an exercise designed to familiarise the often-targeted city's law enforcers with what to expect.




posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 03:49 PM
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fotsyfots
Just found this scouring news here.I can't seem to get "keystone cops" out of my head.Seems the local cops & army were shooting at each other & .....nothing for 2 extra days as the FOUR not 15 gunmen had already done a bunk!!! Does Murdoch's tentacles reach that far out to control Kenya's media.??
1st post in new ATS so mercy if stuffed up pls.!!


What has Murdoch got to do with it??
the number of attackers has been fairly well telegraphed since soon after the event - as is the looting and shooting at each other by military & police - eg see wiki article on the attack

also note in there that some British police were part of het investigation, and reports "American and British "agents"" were "involved" in the Kenyan operation.



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 04:01 PM
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Aloysius the Gaul


also note in there that some British police were part of het investigation, and reports "American and British "agents"" were "involved" in the Kenyan operation.


Im glad you mentioned that, I was about to, there were SAS and american special forces involved in evacuating people.
An SAS guy was reported as just being there while off duty. Yeah right.

It really looks like a load of innocent people lost their lives YET AGAIN to another false flag operation.
And what of the "White Widow" Samantha Lewthwaite?, it was widely reported that she masterminded the whole thing.
Its ridiculous that innocent people are dying to justify the war on the phantom terrorists, while our borders are wide open to anybody.(Except Mike Tyson)
Anybody else understand this disconnect from reality?

edit on 201312America/Chicago12pm12pmWed, 11 Dec 2013 16:02:03 -06001213 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 04:09 PM
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OneManArmy


Im glad you mentioned that, I was about to, there were SAS and american special forces involved in evacuating people.
An SAS guy was reported as just being there while off duty. Yeah right.


and you have information to support that suspicion?


It really looks like a load of innocent people lost their lives YET AGAIN to another false flag operation.


any actual evidence this was "false flag" or is that now just the default for every terrorist operation around the world for ATS nuts now??



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 04:19 PM
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WTF? NYPD in Kenya? Blomberg is really an uber- power hungry little sh$t!



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Got to say it's all very confusing.

First of all there was 15 terrorists then that changed several times and now we are being told there were only 4 and they all died in the attack - or did they? Because there are witness statements identifying terrorists escaping with injured civilians.
We were almost immediately informed that a white British woman was involved, they even named her within a very short time. There were also reports that 3 American citizens were actively involved....they get no mention in the latest reports.
The 4 named terrorists were Sudanese, Somali, Kenyan Arab(?) and an unknown nationality.
To further confuse things Norwegian investigators flew out to poke around in the aftermath after reports of a Norwegian national being involved as well.

At the time we were told that a British soldier / intelligence officer - take your pick - along with an Irish soldier were actively involved in helping civilians escape and attacking the terrorists.

We have tales of armed Kenyan civilians arriving on the scene and entering the building to assist in operations against the attackers.

We have reports that more British military personel were on scene in an advisory role, as apparently were both US and Israeli 'intelligence' officers.

Added to this were the obvious Kenyan police and military.

We are led to believe that it took 3 days to clear the risk and eliminate the 15, 10, 8, 6 or 4 terrorists that were responsible for the act.

But now we are told that the terrorists were either dead or escaped 12 hours after the attack started and that the Kenyans spent 2 and a half days shooting at each other, chasing shadows and looting anything of value from all the stores.

We are also informed that Kenyan security forces had information well in advance of the attack but either; a) Did nothing or b) placed plain clothes operatives inside the shopping mall who were unable to do anything to prevent the attack at all.

Now we are told that NYPD sent some of their finest, as did the good old Met, to assist the Kenyans - and presumably the Norwegians and possibly the Israeli's - in the investigation.

All which has led to above summarisation.

Confused? - You will be.

And I'm 100% certain I've missed many other related bits and pieces that would only serve to even further darken the already muddy waters.

I really don't know what to make of this.

False flag?
I'm hardly one to scream 'conspiracy' at every opportunity - as many can attest to here on ATS - but there's so much nonsense, suspicious reporting, conflicting information, incompetence, interfering etc that I honestly haven't got the foggiest about what's going on here and can only conclude that a conspiracy of some sort has definitely taken place.
Exactly what the conspiracy is I honestly couldn't hazard a guess.
edit on 11/12/13 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 05:02 PM
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Aloysius the Gaul

OneManArmy


Im glad you mentioned that, I was about to, there were SAS and american special forces involved in evacuating people.
An SAS guy was reported as just being there while off duty. Yeah right.


and you have information to support that suspicion?



Oh yes, from the mouths of the people that were saved by them.
I will dig a few up.


A heroic off-duty SAS soldier saved 100 adults and children from terrorists during the Nairobi shopping centre massacre, it has been claimed.

The soldier was enjoying a coffee with friends when the gunmen stormed the Westgate shopping centre and began slaughtering innocent shoppers.

The man - who cannot be identified - is reported to have bravely gone back into the building 12 times to help shoppers to safety.

Source - The Mirror UK
Source - The Telegraph
Sourc e - The Daily Mail

RE US Navy Seals - Source The Mirror

I have seen survivor testimony saying she was rescued by US special forces. I will have to find it, its been a while.

Westgate Was a Hoax; Fake Blood, Paid Actors, Staged Explosions... It's Part of The New World Order

Source - Nairobi Wire

Heres the video that prompted the article..


"Saved after 4 hrs by policemen that were mostly White guys"
- Not the video im looking for, but Im sure I will find it. But I have to go to bed.
edit on 201312America/Chicago12pm12pmWed, 11 Dec 2013 17:37:43 -06001213 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

edit on 201312America/Chicago12pm12pmWed, 11 Dec 2013 17:40:22 -06001213 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 08:08 PM
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fotsyfots
reply to post by Riffrafter
 

I could reply " well thats the good ol' US of A for ya ,always poking around others business" but i will refrain & simply say I'm curious as to why that is myself.


Yeah the expert seems a little sketchy to me as well. Especially when he says it was reported they had machine guns and high explosives then comes back with they were carrying AK 47s and grenades? Hmmm AK47 is what a bb gun and grenades arent made with high explosives?
edit on 12/11/13 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 02:14 AM
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Freeborn
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Got to say it's all very confusing.

First of all there was 15 terrorists then that changed several times and now we are being told there were only 4 and they all died in the attack - or did they? Because there are witness statements identifying terrorists escaping with injured civilians.



No there weren't 15 terrorists and then 4 terrorists - there were as many as there were, an the numbers were REPORTED as 10, 15, 4, and so forth.

CT's are always complaining about the MSM - well guess what - for a long time no-one actually knew, they pulled numbers out of their posterior, the Kenyan Govt was making things up to fill the insatiable hunger for news and also it looks like to make it look like a bigger attack than it was perhaps in order to make them look a little less incompetent??

Why do you expect he news stories to be perfect all the time??



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 03:10 AM
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just on a broader note :

a lot of people dogmatically call any report by the NYPD regarding a US crime " govt disinfo " - but seem to be slurping it up as absolute fact in this case

got to wonder - why ?



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 04:05 AM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 




No there weren't 15 terrorists and then 4 terrorists - there were as many as there were, an the numbers were REPORTED as 10, 15, 4, and so forth.


Well, that was kind of the point I was trying to make.

Where were these numbers coming from? - MSM didn't just pluck them from thin air, they were quoting either eye witnesses or official sources.



CT's are always complaining about the MSM....


And with great justification a lot of the time.



.... - well guess what - for a long time no-one actually knew,


That at least seems quite apparent - however, if you cast your mind back to when events were actually unfurling before our eyes both the authorities and MSM gave the impression that they DID know exactly what was going on.



.... they pulled numbers out of their posterior,


Looks that way.



...the Kenyan Govt was making things up to fill the insatiable hunger for news and also it looks like to make it look like a bigger attack than it was perhaps in order to make them look a little less incompetent??


Without a doubt - and maybe they were being mislead a bit as well.



Why do you expect he news stories to be perfect all the time??


I don't, why do you think that I do?

The point of my post is that no-one seems to have had a clue what was going on both during and directly after the attack.
And now almost 3 months after it seems that still no-one really knows what happened.

As I said, I'm not one to shout 'conspiracy' every time something happens - au contraire, I think those people do nothing but discredit and deflect from real conspiracies - but is it any wonder people suspect some sort of conspiracy occurred here considering the confusion and conflicting information?

Personally, I doubt it was a false flag but how much did the authorities know before the attack? Which intelligence agencies were involved before, during and after? Who carried out the attack and why? How many terrorists were there, how many died and how many survived? When did they die and what nationalities were they? Why did the 'clean up' take so long? How much looting took place and by whom? Blah blah blah.
I'm sure you get the point, there are so many unanswered questions and conflicting information.



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 04:54 PM
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Freeborn


Fair enough regarding your previous comments about my comments

As I said, I'm not one to shout 'conspiracy' every time something happens - au contraire, I think those people do nothing but discredit and deflect from real conspiracies - but is it any wonder people suspect some sort of conspiracy occurred here considering the confusion and conflicting information?


To be honest conflicting info is not actually required for conspiracies to be shouted these days - if all eth info is available and completely known then CT's will still say it was a setup - WHY is all the information known??




Personally, I doubt it was a false flag but how much did the authorities know before the attack? Which intelligence agencies were involved before, during and after? Who carried out the attack and why? How many terrorists were there, how many died and how many survived? When did they die and what nationalities were they? Why did the 'clean up' take so long? How much looting took place and by whom? Blah blah blah.
I'm sure you get the point, there are so many unanswered questions and conflicting information.


and there always will be - your questions are a perfect example of how CT's create their theories.

nothing is EVER perfectly known - and therefore that becomes the basis for the conspiracy theory!!
edit on 12-12-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: tag



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 


Seems we share quite a bit of common ground.
I've frequently mentioned my suspicion of those who scream 'conspiracy' at any opportunity. They detract and deflect from the genuine conspiracies and help foster the perception that all conspiracy theories are wrong and their supporters are all cranks.

I don't think this attack was a false flag - quite clearly some terrorists attacked the mall.
There just so much contradictory information and incompetence.

It may be that the only conspiracy that has occurred is the cover up of the true details in an effort to prevent the level of incompetence involved becoming common knowledge or even the level of looting that took place.



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 08:58 PM
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So who were all the people who took the politicians helicopter ride from the British ran refugee camp? And why are they now trying to shut down a refugee camp that has been there since what the 80's? Who were the people renting the house they used? Who rented the store for over a year? Who paid to install bullet proof glass in the store front?And who tried doing a raid that failed to get one of the terrorist and was chased off? NYPD or Special Forces?
edit on 12-12-2013 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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Just for background information, the NYPD does a lot of consulting work world-wide, on a temporary basis. It is probably the best funded policing institution in the world, with the latest technology and training. Forensics as a discipline hardly existed before 1970; it was developed by major PD's (not the FBI, mind you) on the East Coast.

Most developing nations have a very, um, nebulous view of what police should do. Many police forces are nationalized (which can encourage corruption, if there is no inter-agency competition), and most are run as military units. Many police departments in developing nations don't even have an investigative apparatus beyond senior beat cops, who make an allegation to a judge, based on their personal authority.

The FBI plays a similar role to the NYPD world-wide as well. The American FBI is unique because they have no direct authority to investigate a murder unless it occurs on federal dirt (like at the post office or something). They have to be "invited" by local law enforcement, or by a larger entity investigating corruption. This means that for 70 years,the FBI has had to justify its involvement in practically every local investigation. The shooting of JFK is one of the more striking instances. 2 days after the arrest of Oswald, the suspect was still in local custody (Dallas PD), and the FBI could only question him with local LEOs present.

Many police agencies in developed countries haven't mastered investigative techniques considered commonplace in the US; thing like raising prints off of human skin or the curved surface of a styrofoam cup. Many departments even in Europe are only now getting to use DNA evidence on a regular basis.

Some have wondered why the CIA wasn't there instead; again, the reason is that the CIA has no forensic arm; they call the FBI or local police when they need anything beyond fingerpint analysis.



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by tovenar
 


That all sounds great but NYPD is a city police department who is supposed to overseen by the NY Commission which can't even oversee them because they don't have the clearance needed to look over the shoulder of the ex CIA agent in charge of the TARU and Intelligence portion of the NYPD.

NYPD has no right to be overseas or out of there own city except when they can cross the line over the internet investigations they do. And the they should be under the direct supervision of the other party while they are visiting.

NYPD has no right to travel the world as globe trotters.



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


So you're saying criminological studies should be limited to local crime? I don't understand why you would want to place such restrictions on an academic activity.



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by mrwiffler
 


I am sure the people in New York would like to have the crime taken care of there before they spend there local tax dollar to investigate a crime in a country they will never go to. Your not talking about some United Nation Tax paid police department. They are paid by New York City citizens. And I m sure if they think they have every thing figured out on the streets of New York themselves they could just check out Wall Street for some academic studies in crime. Start with the crash then check out the bail outs.



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by JBA2848
 


You seem to be confusing fighting crime with studying crime. The NYPD is not over there enforcing law, they are studying a crime. So you don't want your local criminologists to learn anything from overseas?

edit on 12-12-2013 by mrwiffler because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 12 2013 @ 11:36 PM
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Riffrafter
reply to post by fotsyfots
 


Why is the NYPD investigating this thing at all?!

Were they invited to? Why?



Clearly a sign that New York in 2013 suffers no crime, so they can waste the tax payers money and assign dectectives to go to Africa to tell us what we already knew, and the the police in bongo bongo land could'nt figure out for themselves without the aid of Cagney and Lacey.



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