Why we are not ready.

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Wouldn't all lifeforms need to consume to live ?
Do you have an example of life that does not consume and therefore would not need to be competitive ? Jeez even the weeds in my garden compete for nutrients.

reply to post by zysin5


if your assessment is true - can you please make all the contactees , channelers ad others - STFU ?

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Obviously.

But violence is only a necessary survival strategy when redources are constrained. For an even moderately evolved soecies resources are no longer constrained.

Violence or nonviolenve are factors somewhere on page two of reasoning for this subject.

Violence is not just about competing for resources. I actually wasn't thinking about that at all when I wrote the thread.

I was thinking about the rut.

Violence is also extremely important in competing for mates and determining who is most fit to pass on their genes. That's not about resources, not entirely.

Aliens may not need to compete to evolve, but then again, they may have. We just don't know. So it would be wrong to have a thread about readiness without exploring both lines of reasoning:

1.) Benevolent contact

2.) Violent contact

Either scenario is equally likely and viable.

ignorant_ape
reply to post by zysin5

 

if your assessment is true - can you please make all the contactees , channelers ad others - STFU ?

Not to mention the Hollywood guys who all tell the same story except for a few who's movies are aimed at the children's admission fees.

reply to post by ketsuko


That is of course reasonable.

But first thing we need to challenge our humanocentric myopic assumptions about ourselves. Such as whether on a larger scale we would even count as intelligent.

Given our ravening destructive behavior just little dumb me has been dubious about so-called human intelligence for nearly 50 years. I'm not even an alien.

Insofar as reproductive pressure that might still be a psychological factor during an assumed designer body phase; but not necedsarily.

ketsuko

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by ketsuko

 

Obviously.

But violence is only a necessary survival strategy when redources are constrained. For an even moderately evolved soecies resources are no longer constrained.

Violence or nonviolenve are factors somewhere on page two of reasoning for this subject.

Violence is not just about competing for resources. I actually wasn't thinking about that at all when I wrote the thread.

I was thinking about the rut.

Violence is also extremely important in competing for mates and determining who is most fit to pass on their genes. That's not about resources, not entirely.

Aliens may not need to compete to evolve, but then again, they may have. We just don't know. So it would be wrong to have a thread about readiness without exploring both lines of reasoning:

1.) Benevolent contact

2.) Violent contact

Either scenario is equally likely and viable.

edit on 10-12-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

Yeah but which one actually has an example in our current reality ?

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Which is why I say we are perfectly ready from the view of a predatory or conquering species.

They wouldn't want to come for an advanced or intelligent race but one they could easily wipe out, and how naïve have we been broadcasting our presence at the top of our lungs to all and sundry? We must be like the lost baby animal screaming for its mother ...

reply to post by ketsuko


Yes this scenario is possible. As we might be less intelligent compared to them than we are to a bacteria, and we show no mercy to lesser lifeforms whatsoever, it is possible we'd just be veal calves to them.

But logistically I find it likely that most ets would be in some form of post organic phase so the actual likelihood of your scenario is low but definitely not negligible.

The problem is we are not ready for the ramifications of disclosure. Sure there are aliens out there, but what becomes of us once we are part of something larger than ourselves? Are we ready accept the reality of a larger view? It is not disclosure that is a problem, it is the understanding of our real place in the Universe after our eyes have been opened.

reply to post by ObservingTheWorld


I'd imagine that any aliens out there watching us are curious if or how we might solve the usual problems of a very young species.

If you yank a caterpillar grub out of a cocoon it never forms a butterfly - it dies.

So it would appear, from the posts here; Humans are too stupid (not intelligent) and too violent for contact.

It would appear that Humans are not evolved enough...BUT

ALL space faring species are their home worlds Apex Predators. Period. In order for a life form to leave its home world it must surpass all other species in virtually all areas; hence APEX PREDATOR. You Terrestrial Humans have done this. By the way, just because a species is a virtual "master of violence" does not mean he has to be violent.

You all seem to like belittling yourselves, saying that Terrestrial Humans are little more than "ants", or in this thread bacteria.

You do understand that you have learned how to leave your home world without outside help; right? You think ET is so much more intelligent, yet, when you actually examine the manifestation; One finds that Terrestrial Humans are equal to ET in every single respect, with the single exception of "experience".

Stealing my own words:

"I know this how?" Logic Read the definition of Pi, just how many different instances can you think of that might require that? The number is actually quite limited and virtually ALL of them can be seen in ancient Terrestrial architecture. ET would have discovered Pi in much the same way at pretty much the same stage of evolution. Or, did ET somehow "magically" skip having to evolve into what he is today?

So, no, the claim isn't so remarkable after all. Y'all keep thinking that ET got to where he is by magic or something, perhaps God created ET that way. Rather than presuming that ET has to get to where he is the same way you are getting there, and have gotten to where you are now; evolution.

All of the trials, tribulations, issues, problems, wars, poverty, hunger, savage behavior toward their own, every bit of the "primitive" behavior you attribute only to yourselves, has been experienced by ET thousands of times over. And will continue to be experienced somewhere by someone.

-- quoted from another thread.

It was a discussion on the value and methods of finding "Pi", you can substitute what ever ya like for "Pi", and the comments will still apply. Pay attention to the comments about evolution.

ET is NOT greater than you, nor is he less; Terrestrial Humans are actually at the "apex" of evolution, and many ETs, even space faring ones, are the Ones that are playing 'catch up'.

reply to post by tanka418


A very common theory among scientists is that the reason
the universe seems empty is that most species would destroy
themselves before learning FTL travel, if that is even possible.

Humans are well on track to do that very thing. This is in fact
due to being apex predators as you say.

If you don't agree with this point of view, yelling at any
of us won't be of value; take it up with the scientific
community.

One of the usual explanations of the Fermi paradox:
en.wikipedia.org...

Stephen Hawking said it
clinton4.nara.gov...

and again in a different way

theweek.com...

Carl Sagan said the same thing
en.wikiquote.org...

Renowned scientists think we will go extinct within 100 years
www.mnn.com... matters/climate-weather/stories/humans-could-go-extinct-within-100-years-says-renowned-scienti

www.ecoshock.info...

So are humans as dumb as a box of rocks and many other aliens
are superior? I don't know. It would seem that most life is as
dumb as a box of rocks, or the universe would be overflowing
with alien ships, alien probes, engineered worlds..

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by tanka418

 

A very common theory among scientists is that the reason
the universe seems empty is that most species would destroy
themselves before learning FTL travel, if that is even possible.

Yes, and it is terrible that none have any faith in the Human Species. It's as "IF" you are a complete waste.

I am so ... not fond of the Human species, I refuse to accept a position as a member; and I have far more faith in the Human Species than that. It is THAT kind of thinking that will turn into self-fulfilling prophesy, and be the "doom" of Humanity.

Humans are well on track to do that very thing. This is in fact
due to being apex predators as you say.

You must be young! NO, absolutely NOT; Humans are not on a path of self-destruction. Quite the opposite; you are on a path, albeit slowly, to greatness. It's almost in the DNA, and is the Hallmark of true Humans.

If you don't agree with this point of view, yelling at any
of us won't be of value; take it up with the scientific
community.

No, science is at times and in some contexts; Blind. I won't be asking any "blind" people to "look" at anything. I'll try to take it up with those who have sight and are perhaps not paying attention.

Unfortunately there are many who will follow the blind, blindly. I find it is far better to use the protocols of the blind as I explore the ALL.

So are humans as dumb as a box of rocks and many other aliens
are superior? I don't know. It would seem that most life is as
dumb as a box of rocks, or the universe would be overflowing
with alien ships, alien probes, engineered worlds..

Hawking...no comment.
Sagan...brilliant man, but ...

That's not a very impressive array of noted scientists. And the other references weren't even as good.

No you are not "dumb as a box of rocks", In 8000 years you went from no science, no technology, no culture to speak of; to a species that is in the very early stages of leaving their home world. AND, you have been "held back" some 1500 - 2000 years in the doing. I'd say that's not too bad.

Wonder if ET was so fortunate?

By the way; Fermi didn't see ET because he wouldn't "look". Just like most Terrestrial Humans.

"ET is NOT greater than you, nor is he less; Terrestrial Humans are actually at the "apex" of evolution, and many ETs, even space faring ones, are the Ones that are playing 'catch up'. " - me.

reply to post by tanka418


I'm actually playing a bit of devil's advocate here.. echoing
what the brightest minds have to say.

I don't entirely agree with those 'brightest minds' either.

KPB

reply to post by zysin5




Maybe the wise ET observer, having advanced to a state of being far beyond a typical biological body would simply shrug its non-existent shoulders and, say, "Humans will be humans. Give them a couple mil more years and we'll check again. Evolution of body and mind does come with time you know.

reply to post by Aliensun


Well said.

If life bubbles up with the frequency science thinks it does..
what with nucleic acids floating around in space and possibly
doing seeding of many worlds.. life could be like a weed it's
so common.

But life which can bypass the many death traps that are
inevitable might be truly rare.

Maybe it will be several more mass extinction cycles before
humans 'make it' if they do at all.. and by then they will
look like gray aliens.. raw consciousness in a machine
body. Only something like that is really sustainable in
this physical universe.

KPB

Thanks for all the insightful replies! Such a topic can be viewed at many different points of view. I do have hope for the human race, we have come this far. It just seems to me and many others here, that something is not right with this world. Things are backwards, and more and more people start to feel the same thing. To most of us. Knowing there is indeed life out there, we can handle it, and realize what we play a part in within the universe. A contained little planet of carbon based life forms, that is slowly reaching out to its own back yard. I have hope someday. I just know now, it could go down in many different scenes. And Hollywood takes their role, into how people see the bad side of things, or the "good".

A very difficult question. As most of us are ready, but mob mentality kicks in, and its a whole different game. Feel free to add more to this discussion.

We are only defined by the parameters we set on ourselves here. Its always a human point of view. And in the universe in truth, we are not the only carbon based life. Think of the non carbon based and the wide range of alien make up.

I think its funny how people think that other life out there has to exist at such a high intelligence.

Maybe our first contact will be with some alien that crashes because he forgot to fuel up his spaceship before he left home.

Existing for a long time does not necessarily mean your going to gain intelligence. Sure, you may be smarter and know more things, but it doesn't mean your any more intelligent than us here on Earth.

Humans are also violent creatures, we are not peaceful and never will be. We are the warriors of the universe, the Predator or Alien type of race that will kill any who stand in our way.

Maybe other species out there know about us but do not want to open that Pandora's Box for what they may let loose on the universe.

Human nature is violent at its core, its destructive, and its the mindset of a conqueror. Whoever decides to eventually make contact with us will probably end up losing their society to us.

We are and will be the dominate species no matter how advanced your math is or how long your species has been around.

reply to post by Spookybelle

We are and will be the dominate species no matter how advanced your math is or how long your species has been around.

That sounds something like Dick Chenney might say!

So what happens when we meet 'us' except they've been
at it for a billion more years than us? When they stream
antimatter from outside of the solar system and incinerate
all of us; or their nannites land and we all turn to grey
goo inside of a few minutes; they will read your post
and laugh themselves into a coma.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

We are and will be the dominate species no matter how advanced your math is or how long your species has been around.

That sounds something like Dick Chenney might say!

So what happens when we meet 'us' except they've been
at it for a billion more years than us? When they stream
antimatter from outside of the solar system and incinerate
all of us; or their nannites land and we all turn to grey
goo inside of a few minutes; they will read your post
and laugh themselves into a coma.

KPB

I doubt our first contact will be with "us" as they are probably engaged elsewhere in the universe or already corralled by TPTB, whoever it is up there. Our first contact will be with a peaceful race and once they share their technology with us we will quickly adapt it to wartime use and eradicate them, or put them on a reservation planet.

Then we will turn our attention to the "us" race and give them an ultimatum to surrender their Solar Ray of Doom or we will apply sanctions to them and starve them out.

In the end the human race will be victorious.

I'm sure that some universal biologist, who has cataloged all the known species has made a note in his galactic computer that humans are extremely dangerous and their planet is to be avoided at all costs. I'm sure they have moved their galactic trade routes far from our planet to avoid incidental transfer of technology and that we have been quarantined indefinitely.

Only extremely well armed scientific missions occasionally come to our planet to check our progress.