EXCLUSIVE: Snowden document shows Canada set up spy posts for NSA

reply to post by soficrow

I as a Canadian am outraged.

That being said, i'm not sure why the OP is insisting on us having been "neutral" in the past. How so? We are a longstanding NATO member and have had many alliances/treaties in the past. Hell, we even joined WW2 at its outset, long before the Americans.

Well, if anyone would like to fight against freedom and democracy, the CSEC is hiring:

CSEC

And they are a top employer in the Ottawa region, now that is something to be proud of! I especially like the list of their partners in crime...

reply to post by soficrow


I think the more info that comes out the more the countries who are pissed about the Us spying are going to have egg on their face.

All countries spy on each other - friends or enemies since they all have their own national goals and concerns.

An ally today can be an enemy tomorrow and any enemy from the past can be a staunch ally in the present and future. Me thinks some of these countries doth protest to much...

I hope the glass in their glass houses is made of safety glass.

reply to post by soficrow


This does not shock me. Commonwealth Nations have a very unique relationship with the US and one another when it comes to intelligence gathering and sharing. Most if not all of the 20 countries of major interest are very aware internally. Nations put on public display a very different reaction versus what they already know privately to appease the public masses.

I love Canada very much. I always have. I also believe that the US has always treated Canada like a red headed step child. However, Canada has been Americanized for decades. People are just noticing it more as no one seems to care to hide it that much now. Canada has benefited greatly from it's relationship with the United States with regard to security matters among other things. Our fates are intertwined whether we like it or not.

But Canada also suffers for it's relationship with the US and that's part of being an ally with other Nations. Hence Canada has been more hands on to have some control of it's fate with the shared interests of both Nations.

Harper seems like a shill but a very dangerous one. Perhaps the next PM will be more considerate of Canada's needs first and make more difficult choices for the better of it's people. It seems to be business as usual between our two Nations in my view though.

Canada is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Canada has Harper and the US has Obama. Both Nations are up a crap creek without a paddle. Parliament and Congress are not much better either.

As a Canadian I am... Not surprised in the least...

Governments all over the world are corrupt... ours isn't any different

In fact our government is blatantly corrupt, and proud of it...

pretty sad honestly... but so is the state of the world

Sigh

reply to post by FlySolo

...guess how long Canada has been in cahoots? Sixty Years

More info? eg., at what level? [Not surprised though, Canada being a "corporate-government partnership"]

Emphasis on corporate.

reply to post by nightbringr

...i'm not sure why the OP is insisting on us having been "neutral" in the past

I'm over 60 so my idea of the "past" may be different than yours - and also, may reflect illusion more than reality. But - fact is, Canada's stated position and reputation in the world was as a "neutral" country. Our participation in conflicts was always as "peacekeeper," not fighter.

reply to post by Xcathdra

...All countries spy on each other - friends or enemies since they all have their own national goals and concerns.

An ally today can be an enemy tomorrow and any enemy from the past can be a staunch ally in the present and future. Me thinks some of these countries doth protest to much...

All true. S& : up : Still, the world of diplomacy is about appearances, and if you lose your cover...

It's considered impossible, but I'd like to see a new world order based on truth - without which there can be no real growth and evolution. Radical concept I know.

reply to post by Flint2011

...Nations put on public display a very different reaction versus what they already know privately to appease the public masses.

...Canada has benefited greatly from it's relationship with the United States with regard to security matters among other things. Our fates are intertwined whether we like it or not.

But Canada also suffers for it's relationship with the US and that's part of being an ally with other Nations. ...

Harper seems like a shill but a very dangerous one. Perhaps the next PM will be more considerate of Canada's needs first and make more difficult choices for the better of it's people. It seems to be business as usual between our two Nations in my view though.

Canada is damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Canada has Harper and the US has Obama. Both Nations are up a crap creek without a paddle. Parliament and Congress are not much better either.

Check.
Check.
Check.
Check.
Check.

S& : up :

Akragon
...Governments all over the world are corrupt... ours isn't any different

In fact our government is blatantly corrupt, and proud of it...

pretty sad honestly... but so is the state of the world ...

True, yes, but I'd like to see a new world order based on truth - without which there can be no real growth and evolution. Radical concept I know. But with Snowden, Wikileaks and the like, governments of the future may have no choice. One can always hope.

soficrow
I'm over 60 so my idea of the "past" may be different than yours - and also, may reflect illusion more than reality. But - fact is, Canada's stated position and reputation in the world was as a "neutral" country. Our participation in conflicts was always as "peacekeeper," not fighter.

That's more a public image thing than a real adherence to neutrality. Canada has actively promoted this benign image for their own benefit. Wolf in sheep's clothing.

reply to post by Cathcart

That's more a public image thing than a real adherence to neutrality. Canada has actively promoted this benign image for their own benefit. Wolf in sheep's clothing.

I agree. Still, what one aspires to appear to be often influences what one does in fact become. As far as being a "wolf in sheep's clothing," Canada simply does not have the riches, population or military power to be a wolf. Coyote maybe.

I'm guessing Canada is about as "neutral" as Sweden.

Many years ago, there was a public outcry against implementing the Swedish version of NSA style espionage. It literally brought up a #storm from both politicians and the public, that it would be impossible to control within legal limits and that it would be used against the Swedish people.

But, for reasons unknown, it was pushed through. The goverment completely ignored the people and FRA themselves (ie NSA) already knew what they where doing would become "legal" - they had already spent billions on the infrastructure.

Today, we know that the NSA was behind it all. Its was the US pushing the implemention of a Swedish spy center and the Swedish goverment just rolled over on its back.

Fun fact: Not too long ago there was yet another outcry of Russia invading Swedish airspace with 2 bombers and multiple escort fighters (NATO sent up interceptors to watch them, Sweden had no combat readiness lol). Oooh big bad Russia playing wargames against us innocent Swedes, we havent done anything! We're neutral! The horror!!!

After the military analyzed the event, it was deemed to be a simulated attack on FRA/NSA HQ.

Good

reply to post by soficrow


Not sure what the quoted OP meant but I read it as more like Canada is a sleeping giant. Canada is a peaceful Nation overall and that has a lot to do with good foreign relations and policies which have dwindled since the war on terror began. Canada is not the only Nation who has been swept up into the war on terror either. Many other common wealth nations have been as well. Canada may not have the might and numbers that the US or Nations like it does but it is a force to be reckoned with if judgment day ever comes knocking on there door.

Flint2011
reply to post by soficrow

 

Canada is a peaceful Nation overall and that has a lot to do with good foreign relations and policies which have dwindled since the war on terror began.

So much for "good foreign relations and policies" - Harper's strutting and Snowden's disclosures have pretty much destroyed all of that.

...Not sure what the quoted OP meant but I read it as more like Canada is a sleeping giant. ...Canada may not have the might and numbers that the US or Nations like it does but it is a force to be reckoned with if judgment day ever comes knocking on there door.

Canada has never played the bully game. Her strength lies in the strength of her people, and that real strength has little to do with fists and brawls.

reply to post by soficrow


Everything that is happening with the US is happening in Canada, but without the media coverage. Banking system fraud. Spying. And just today in the news is a proposal to block pornographic websites.

soficrow
I'm over 60 so my idea of the "past" may be different than yours - and also, may reflect illusion more than reality. But - fact is, Canada's stated position and reputation in the world was as a "neutral" country. Our participation in conflicts was always as "peacekeeper," not fighter.

In which case you dont have many years on me.

While yes, the world has often viewed us as harmless or non-aggressive, we have never been neutral. Since the inception of NATO we have been a member and actively opposed the spread of communism. Further, as a commonwealth nation, we have generally towed the line for Great Britain since our inception.

Yes, we act as peacekeepers, but we have also helped the USA and Great Britain in almost any and all conflict they have been involved in. We simply are NOT neutral.

And yes, we have fought. Bitterly. We simply need to look at the two most violent conflicts that rocked our planet in its entire history to see that. World Wars 1 and 2. When we take into consideration we are one tenth the population of the USA, we can see that we contributed as much per capita, if not more, than America ever did to both those conflicts.

soficrow
Canada has never played the bully game. Her strength lies in the strength of her people, and that real strength has little to do with fists and brawls.

We dont have to. We have our big brothers America and Great Britain to do that for us.

Do you really think we would have stood as a country past 1945 without the Americans protecting us? If they werent, it would have been nothing for the Soviets to invade us across the Bering Straight. At the end of WW2 we had the fourth most powerful navy in the world. That wouldnt have mattered.

I dont like it any more than you do, but its true.

snypwsd
My opinion is this, Either we keep bitching about it or we do something about it.

'Nuff said?

reply to post by nightbringr


I do agree with you in general regarding the reality, but my focus is on perception. And in politics, perception is everything. Point being, we now have lost the world's perception of our neutrality and consequently, have lost our traditional "place" on the world stage.

...As a specific point of disagreement, Canada has in fact worked towards mediating peaceful solutions - and in the past, Canadians have NOT been spied on by the government to the degree now possible. ...Perhaps the real issue is about constraints on corporations' and governments' use of new communications technologies?