CHALLENGE: Prove That You Are NOT God

PRS395
HyphenSt1
reply to post by PRS395

HyphenSt1
okay, so you shouldn't mind defining your terms then, should you..? what is a "sinner" and what is "God" to you..? If God is all-powerful, and against Sin, wouldn't Sin be impossible to commit?

PRS395
The terms are defined in the Old and New Testament.

And what would those terms be? As I see it God allows Sin as a function of lessoning entropy; Sin vacates or facilitates GROWTH in DISHARMONY. Goodliness must prevail or the growth 'or the lessoning of entropy' will not be achieved and if this doesnt happen, we are SUNK dead in the water START OVER AGAIN ALL CIVILIZATIONS EVER OR NEW ONES WHO KNOWS (at this point dont really care to be the CARETAKER of this planet again; over and over and over again).

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I told you that your answers aren't adequate for the questions they attempt to resolve. I also told you I don't have the answers, but I can suggest some questions that would assist us both in the matter.

I don't think I "provided answers" so much as I made connections.. I don't intend to be adding anything to the equation at any rate.. I'm just struggling to simplify the "truth" at the center of all of these spiritual-paradigms with hopes to refine a description of that "lowest common denominator" that transcends a need for Spirituality and Science to be any different..
I'm not a Thelemite or anything but I do think Aleister Crowley was onto something when he made the motto of his secret society (the A.A.) "we seek the method of science, and the aim of religion"

Your response essentially told me that you agreed with my opinion that our current data sets regarding gods are now obsolete and in desperate need of reevaluation.

absolutely!! and I think Bard and I were trying to convince you how similar our views seem to be, rather than be in "opposition" to what you were saying. I write these threads entirely based on the steam created by the frustration I have with the current "data sets" and I think that the only "re-evaluation" that could actually be EFFECTIVE in changing things on a mass scale is strip all knowledge and teachings down to their core and DO AWAY WITH TRADITION..

This includes ceasing to DEFINE oneself by race, culture, scene, political/philosophical paradigms, and nationality and thinking.. REALLY thinking.. about what do we ACTUALLY know about anything..!?

it's scary, but it's a whole lot less than I thought when i was a child..

as if the lies about Santa Claus weren't bad enough... the truth about the accomplishments of mankind and pursuit of knowledge has been my adult "santa claus incident" to say the least hahaha

but there's no better time to start making these thoughts available because people have to realize "Truth" for themselves, or else it is the same as getting the right answer on a math problem, but not knowing how to show your work..

I am trying to find formulas for UNDERSTANDING, not for assigning purpose or morality..

reply to post by BardingTheBard

What sort of poetry do you like?

I know this question wasn't directed towards me, but I think that poetry and lyrics in music can be very lucid ways to arrive at the questions i am suggesting in all of my threads. Comedy is another one that seems to leave the (sincere) comedian no choice BUT to lose sense of a "serious ego" and comes to play many roles and archetypes in society, seamlessly..

Mr. Show and Bill Hicks are great examples of this.

as for poetry in its raw form, my recent favorite is the Sufi poet Rumi.

reply to post by vethumanbeing

And what would those terms be? As I see it God allows Sin as a function of lessoning entropy; Sin vacates or facilitates GROWTH in DISHARMONY.

Exactly.. what SHOULD they be? this is not the same question as "what ARE the terms that make a sinner in the mind of a sinner?" because this is obviously different in the case of each person. The CONCEPT of "sinner" is much easier to communicate than the CONDITIONS that constitute "a sinner" because even when the words are memorized (the commandments), the interpretation is what truly counts because this is what influences how we ACT..

what i am saying (in agreement with your statement) God (as i am defining It: the consciousness behind your eyes/brain) allows sinful acts to compensate for a draw of energy from elsewhere (entropy).. what i am suggesting is that these concepts can be translated into very scientific and psychological concepts and say that the "God-Mind" is compensating for a "knot of energy" or "a convoluted thought-process" which would indeed limit the ability to perceive.. hence sinful-acts would be a good thing to avoid because one gains freedom - the TRUE "kingdom of heaven" residing in this mindset..
( "when one has the innocence of a child, only then can he enter into the kingdom of heaven"..)

Godliness must prevail or the growth 'or the lessoning of entropy' will not be achieved and if this doesnt happen, we are SUNK dead in the water START OVER AGAIN ALL CIVILIZATIONS EVER OR NEW ONES WHO KNOWS (at this point dont really care to be the CARETAKER of this planet again; over and over and over again).

the only way i disagree, is where you put that 'or' when you say "growth (...) will not be achieved" and that 'if' as if there were an alternative to the natural process/nature of the universe..

we CAN create alternatives (as one fellow tried to use as an opposition to my point) and this is NO LESS REAL than so-called "objective reality", but we must remember that it exists INSIDE of this universe, and any created-worlds gladly co-exist and do not "cancel out" the already-existing reality.

I don't think that you are OBLIGATED to be a "caretaker of the planet" anymore than you are of your own body.. your body will not somehow go into "auto pilot" and prevent you from starving yourself and drinking yourself to death (i mean.. it will try to until a certain point, but you know what i mean!) but i wouldn't suggest it haha..
the way i see it, the body of the earth is kind of like a 30-something year old college drop-out who has gone to raves since the 90s and is now partying with 15 year olds and trying to figure out if he should try a different routine/method for going about life haha.

In sympathy for the poor bloke, the answer is always easier to see by everyone but him.. perhaps this is how the extra-terrestrials feel?? :O

HyphenSt1
reply to post by vethumanbeing

VeteranHumanBeingAnd what would those terms be? As I see it God allows Sin as a function of lessoning entropy; Sin vacates or facilitates GROWTH in DISHARMONY.

HyphenST1Exactly.. what SHOULD they be? this is not the same question as "what ARE the terms that make a sinner in the mind of a sinner?" because this is obviously different in the case of each person. The CONCEPT of "sinner" is much easier to communicate than the CONDITIONS that constitute "a sinner" because even when the words are memorized (the commandments), the interpretation is what truly counts because this is what influences how we ACT.

The 'terms' are not set in stone; they are processes of electromagnetic impulse; Pos/Neg equalizing. The persons demonstating them have effect (they dont know it; the power of the mind is way beyond human comprehension). Im not sure we even have to act upon impulse, I dont know the mechanism for thought transfer to the ethers, IT HAPPENS regardless of an action based expression, (just the intent of such is enough to change paradigms).

HyphenSt1
what i am saying (in agreement with your statement) God (as i am defining It: the consciousness behind your eyes/brain) allows sinful acts to compensate for a draw of energy from elsewhere (entropy).. what i am suggesting is that these concepts can be translated into very scientific and psychological concepts and say that the "God-Mind" is compensating for a "knot of energy" or "a convoluted thought-process" which would indeed limit the ability to perceive.. hence sinful-acts would be a good thing to avoid because one gains freedom - the TRUE "kingdom of heaven" residing in this mindset.

Yes, I could see it this way, entropy has to melt or diminish otherwise we are stuck in an unchanging environment. Chaos is the even-outer or balance (hard to believe but true as this is the environment entropy floats upon). There has to be a significant positive or negative to balance chaos. You can think of it as human thought (dispensed) or natures physical actions upon the human/animal environment. There must be change somehow somewhere (volatile, intense, demanding of); God mind taking a shortcut. Freedom gained by the allowance of sins by others is entirely acceptable as it is a recognistion of the existance of those potencial or occuring atrocities. It is almost more important to be exposed and act upon than the idea itself (I suppose because we are 'matter base gross forms'. These problems are solved instantly in the 5-7 dimensions (non matterform). This entire 3d environment is an experiment whereby those less dense forms play out a stage play in the dense 3d.

HyphenSt1
( "when one has the innocence of a child, only then can he enter into the kingdom of heaven".

That is very limiting, considering one third of the planets belief systems believes in reincarnation, repetitive lives lived to improve the quality of their individual soul aspect OR an afterlife beyond this one.

VeteranHumanBeing Godliness must prevail or the growth 'or the lessoning of entropy' will not be achieved and if this doesnt happen, we are SUNK dead in the water START OVER AGAIN ALL CIVILIZATIONS EVER OR NEW ONES WHO KNOWS (at this point dont really care to be the CARETAKER of this planet again; over and over and over again).

HyphenSt1
the only way i disagree, is where you put that 'or' when you say "growth (...) will not be achieved" and that 'if' as if there were an alternative to the natural process/nature of the universe...we CAN create alternatives (as one fellow tried to use as an opposition to my point) and this is NO LESS REAL than so-called "objective reality", but we must remember that it exists INSIDE of this universe, and any created-worlds gladly co-exist and do not "cancel out" the already-existing reality.

That soul improving comes with every reincarnation. Every death your soul has experienced some say for the average human is at this point in time between 2 and 5 hundred individual lives youve had on this planet in differing time periods. Im not convinced this is 'real' at all; it seems more an exercise. The whole point of having many lives is to improve upon soul progress. One life you are a begger the next you are the equivelent of Donald Trumps shoes. You are right about this, whatever is happening is happily co-existing so something in the balance is working.

HyphenSt1
I don't think that you are OBLIGATED to be a "caretaker of the planet" anymore than you are of your own body.. your body will not somehow go into "auto pilot" and prevent you from starving yourself and drinking yourself to death (i mean.. it will try to until a certain point, but you know what i mean!) but i wouldn't suggest it haha..the way i see it, the body of the earth is kind of like a 30-something year old college drop-out who has gone to raves since the 90s and is now partying with 15 year olds and trying to figure out if he should try a different routine/method for going about life haha.

We dont take care of our vessels; because we werent wired with instructions/we are not designed to; OK native americans and some Oriental populations are allergic to alochol, did that stop them from imbibing? We are going to push it to limits, just as we do our mental, physical capacities. No 'governer' sets a 65ml per hour speed limit on the gears (placed in the human mindset; must have to do with 'freewill' to obliterate oneself). Not sure why the earth being an entity allows this abuse to happen to itself (unless it knows something we dont).

HyphenSt1
In sympathy for the poor bloke, the answer is always easier to see by everyone but him.. perhaps this is how the extra-terrestrials feel?? :O

Extraterrestrials:
They are the managers/caretakers of this 'garden' so I can only imagine what they think *these are incredibly passive creatures 4D (little greys)* hired/engineered by their overlords 5D; so, how can one manage without interfering or doing a rote firing (its not allowed no union to intercede). For me gameover as far as what this planet is and the purpose. It was supposed to be a 'living library' for all 1-9 dimensions throughout time existing in gross matter form (cataloged) exploits, successes. I will tell you what ruined the ideaform of all dimensions having equal access to this time plane expressing themselves was the discovery of the natural resources; Gold and crystaline components that generate or hold energy. Wild stuff, but true and very sad.

vethumanbeing
I FELT THAT HUG, thank you BardingTheBard.

That's good to hear. Thank you for the bounce back!

HyphenSt1
I really appreciate the presentation of another view in this discussion.

It's my favorite aspect of existing... suddenly finding myself in contact with another view and standing in awe at the continued expansion of the picture yet simplification of the image.

For AfterInfinity:
I have enjoyed my time discussing with you across my 4 personas around here.

The Universe is the Lord thy God.
The Universe created you.
You are a child of The Universe.
You are made of the same substance as The Universe
Your deepest essence is identical to The Universe.
There is nothing about you that is not already inherent in The Universe.
You can never be physically nor conceptually separate from The Universe.
You are conscious. You have will.
Consciousness and will are an inherent part of The Universe.

The only meaningful difference between a theist and an atheist is the theist believes their Creator is conscious and has a will... the atheist believes their Creator is not but they are.

You will never prove to yourself that chocolate has taste, unless you taste chocolate. You can read all the descriptions from others... but they will be contradictory despite having a common theme. They will still vary from culture to culture and person to person... ranging from loving the taste to hating the taste.

Can you prove your taste of chocolate to anyone? Can you point to the taste of chocolate? Will you consider me reasonable if I deny you've tasted chocolate?

Is the only way to interact with The Universe through physical forces?

We used to deal with each other via physical force, now we do it more through thought. We realized "the other tribe" was also conscious like us... just different. Thus we could interact on a "higher plane" than brute force, but a bridge of communication still needed to be crossed.

We too have automated many of our "day to day tasks" leaving things to just "run according to their rules". Many acts of creativity depend on automated systems as their foundation which allow increasingly complex levels of creative expression.

/namasalute and /hug

There is a big difference between understanding your identity and position as a 'part of the Divine creator' that is this Universe; and being able to effectively use it for the good of this planet.

Everything you have put forward is in essence correct; but what purpose can it now serve you and us? With lack of vision, it is unfortunately as meaningless as any of the theologies.

HigherTruth
There is a big difference between understanding your identity and position as a 'part of the Divine creator' that is this Universe; and being able to effectively use it for the good of this planet. Everything you have put forward is in essence correct; but what purpose can it now serve you and us? With lack of vision, it is unfortunately as meaningless as any of the theologies.

What is the difference of understanding (you havent stated any opinion). Do you use your position as one of positivity or as I see it the opposite. Its not what purpose 'THEY' have to offer as much as "YOURS". You lack vision; and therefore your post is as meaningless as those you 'target' (as you respond to them); you are nulifiying the nulifyer.