It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Do Chimpanzees Deserve Rights?

page: 4
6
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:45 PM
link   
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 





The only rights animals should have is the right to not be unnecessarily harmed (ie, lets cut off this dogs' let for a laugh) and laws to protect them form becoming extinct. But by all means use them to test out new face cremes, use them to test chemical weapons, use them for medical testing and experimentation and by all means use them for dinner.


Suffering so you can save a few bucks on bacon sandwiches counts as unnecessary harm in my book.

Im not against meat eating and I LOVE bacon (am dreaming about being in Thailand in 12 hours and eating bacon on my burgers). There are ways we can still have bacon and not torture sentient beings to do so.

And testing chemivals and drugs on animals is also unnecessary and even detrimental. We normally use rats to test stuff on, luckily we didnt test penicillin on them as it kills rats!!!

If economics didnt come into play (ie drug and cosmetics companies werent so profit driven) animal testing would be unnecessary.





I have seen it, and i have actually killed animals myself for food.

doesn't mean i wont keep eating my bacon.


Killing something on a farm is completely different to the production line slaughter houses we have.
Im not against farm killing

So far youve completely ignored 5 or 6 requests of mine to watch earthlings, mind if I ask why?
edit on 10/12/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:53 PM
link   
reply to post by drivers1492
 


You were indifferent when the fox blinked????
Yes I would call that sociopathic, sorry.

So again due to our "superior" intellect its OK to see animals as resources, would it be OK for advanced aliens to do the same to us?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:54 PM
link   
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


An activist I knew awhile back was seriously considering buying a slaughterhouse and making the inside of it visible by using glass walls, and letting people see the horrors for themselves. Not a bad plan, but I don't think he ever followed up on it. I guess I can mention who it was, the fellow who runs Notmilk.com, a site dedicated to sharing data about the health effects (and they aren't good) of consuming dairy products. I haven't looked at the site in years, so I don't know what's on there now.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:00 PM
link   
reply to post by Aleister
 


Interesting point,

I recently found out here in Asia they call breast cancer "rich womans" or "white womans" disease.

Breast cancer is rare among poorer asians and when researchers looked into this anomoly the only difference they could find was dairy food, poor people cant afford processed dairy products and they have since determined this is the leading factor in "rich womans" disease.

Ive also stopped drinking milk where possible, When I found out how much blood, mucus, puss and bile was allowed in it I was nearly sick



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:06 PM
link   

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by Aleister
 


Interesting point,

I recently found out here in Asia they call breast cancer "rich womans" or "white womans" disease.

Breast cancer is rare among poorer asians and when researchers looked into this anomoly the only difference they could find was dairy food, poor people cant afford processed dairy products and they have since determined this is the leading factor in "rich womans" disease.

Ive also stopped drinking milk where possible, When I found out how much blood, mucus, puss and bile was allowed in it I was nearly sick


So much for my glass of milk I was about to down.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:07 PM
link   

catfishjoe

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by Aleister
 


Interesting point,

I recently found out here in Asia they call breast cancer "rich womans" or "white womans" disease.

Breast cancer is rare among poorer asians and when researchers looked into this anomoly the only difference they could find was dairy food, poor people cant afford processed dairy products and they have since determined this is the leading factor in "rich womans" disease.

Ive also stopped drinking milk where possible, When I found out how much blood, mucus, puss and bile was allowed in it I was nearly sick


So much for my glass of milk I was about to down.


LOL

Sorry



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:14 PM
link   

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by drivers1492
 


You were indifferent when the fox blinked????
Yes I would call that sociopathic, sorry.

So again due to our "superior" intellect its OK to see animals as resources, would it be OK for advanced aliens to do the same to us?


Yes I was. Don't be sorry I have been called much worse in life. Sadly if advanced beings were to come to our planet and they felt the need to experiment on a lower life form (us), then for them, yes I don't see where the problem would be. It's the same situation, we will have become a resource to them. That doesn't mean we will like it or won't put up a fight, just like many animals do to us. But, there is a distinct difference between the human race and anything else on this planet that cannot be denied. While our choices may not be the best in advancing our civilization not recognizing our superior intellect overall makes no sense to me. We have used animals for many things throughout the centuries it has just slowly become more than just a food source for us. I suppose it boils down to how you see superior and how you proposed to have made the advancement in science that were made using animals.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:16 PM
link   
Animals are life, and life should be respected.

But there is a problem with the idea of "rights". "Rights" are an abstract concept with no objective foundation, because there is no objective ultimate authority that can grant or revoke rights. Basically in human society, it comes down to might = right (as in correct), and since humans recognize might = right at a subconscious level due to their primitive, ironically chimp like natures, whoever has the most might, grants those with lesser might their "rights".

That said, especially that there is no objective authority that can grant/revoke rights to sovereign beings (all life), the argument becomes absurd that humans can grant rights to anything, because that insinuates that humans (BTW, WHICH humans???) are an absolute authority over others, which is an illusionary construct of hubris and pride.

So, should chimps be "given" "rights"? No, because that would continue to promulgate the absurdity that humans (again, think to yourself, WHICH humans have this power... hint: youre not one of them) are in some lofty position to be deciding for others what they can and cannot do.

-

With that line of thought now moot, another, legitimate question does arise. Should chimps, as an expression of life and creation, just like a human is an expression of life and creation, be given the same respect and compassion that any other expression of life and creation is given? Or perhaps, since we know humans in general respect almost nothing but power (might=right again), we should say "SHOULD be given" rather than "is given".

So should they?

The answer is an emphatic yes from me.


edit on 12/10/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:16 PM
link   
snipped quote-

drivers1492



Thinking you know what these animals go through and then actually seeing and really knowing is a completely different ballgame Watch Earthlings and if you still feel like you do now Ill eat my hat and post the vid online
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


Should we stop using animals for testing? No. As pointed out in a previous post by another member, they are a resource like anything else on this planet. I also believe that those who have been convicted and sentenced to death be used as well to enhance that research. That would be a valuable resource in research. But, many disagree with that idea.


I just want to put it out there that there are alternatives to the live animal model and of course depends on what testing it is. They can work just as well as animal vivisection.

I'm not so sure I believe in testing on humans. There draws the line if they became a common subject(minus people that already sign up/paid to be tested on), under law they have less rights, being prisoners, repeat offenders, felons, etc., at what point are they wavered from such acts or to be defined in use of each one? Or would it turn into another Unit731?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:23 PM
link   


I just want to put it out there that there are alternatives to the live animal model and of course depends on what testing it is. They can work just as well as animal vivisection.
reply to post by dreamingawake
 


Then by all means if there is alternative that has the same results then use it. I don't feel that we should just use animals if there are alternatives only that the use doesn't bother me for advancing research.




I'm not so sure I believe in testing on humans.


The line should be drawn on those condemned to die.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:29 PM
link   
reply to post by catfishjoe
 


Yes they do.. and at the same time all creatures deserve rights and diginity.

Sadly ..very sadly they are denied!



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:31 PM
link   
reply to post by drivers1492
 






Yes I was. Don't be sorry I have been called much worse in life. Sadly if advanced beings were to come to our planet and they felt the need to experiment on a lower life form (us), then for them, yes I don't see where the problem would be. It's the same situation, we will have become a resource to them.


You sound like you lack empathy, that is the definition of a sociopath.

You seem to be a functioning one though so well done to you.

Anyone who saw that scene and wasnt appalled, upset, disgusted is not someone I would care to be around.

Doubt youll lose any sleep over that but just had to put it out there



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:34 PM
link   

TheWrightWing

No, barbaric would be not using animals to find cures and treatments for human health.


My friend, the ends never justify the means, and when tainted paths are walked, you can only arrive at corrupted destinations.

Using live animals as medical experimentation/research specimens is one of the most heinous things a species can indulge in, and one of the most tainted paths a species can walk.

While it will be obvious to only a few, the pain and suffering of those deeds and the indifference with which they were done, will resound through creation and return in the form that they were cast to their human creators and supporters.

You will get back what you put out, in all ways, shapes, and forms.


edit on 12/10/2013 by CaticusMaximus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:45 PM
link   

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by drivers1492
 



You sound like you lack empathy, that is the definition of a sociopath.

You seem to be a functioning one though so well done to you.

Anyone who saw that scene and wasnt appalled, upset, disgusted is not someone I would care to be around.

Doubt youll lose any sleep over that but just had to put it out there


Yes I am familiar with the definition and a lack of empathy is something I struggle with. I find it sad that you would take that aspect of another person as the sole reason as to not be around them. Folks seem to find me quite pleasant to be around actually, the only ones that I have found that dislike me would be considered "undesirable" to most anyone and they dislike me because I won't tolerate drama and trash in my home. But, thanks for the conversation I enjoy to hear others thoughts and opinions different from my own.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:58 PM
link   
reply to post by drivers1492
 





Yes I am familiar with the definition and a lack of empathy is something I struggle with. I find it sad that you would take that aspect of another person as the sole reason as to not be around them. Folks seem to find me quite pleasant to be around actually, the only ones that I have found that dislike me would be considered "undesirable" to most anyone and they dislike me because I won't tolerate drama and trash in my home. But, thanks for the conversation I enjoy to hear others thoughts and opinions different from my own.


The reason I didnt respond with venom in that post is because you do seem (at least from these few posts) like a decent guy but you obviously have something missing.
You dont seem to delight in your callousness and even come across like you know your state of mind is not normal.

I know people who are similar to what you describe, they have been diagnosed with Aspergers and autism.
I find people who lack empathy and compassion either dull or robotic and just dont hae time for them as their company bores me.

Apologies if I gave the impression you were evil as I do not think that is the case



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 03:20 PM
link   

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by drivers1492
 




The reason I didnt respond with venom in that post is because you do seem (at least from these few posts) like a decent guy but you obviously have something missing.
You dont seem to delight in your callousness and even come across like you know your state of mind is not normal.

I know people who are similar to what you describe, they have been diagnosed with Aspergers and autism.
I find people who lack empathy and compassion either dull or robotic and just dont hae time for them as their company bores me.

Apologies if I gave the impression you were evil as I do not think that is the case


No worries, I took nothing said as particularly ill tempered towards me directly, it simply came across as confusion to how I could feel as I do. If it helps any I do know how I am and how it differs from the norm. Although in most conversation you wouldn't pick it up it takes something like this in topic style usually to bring it out. But, this is all off topic so it's best we move on.

I am curious are you a vegan or vegetarian or do you eat meat/poultry?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 03:33 PM
link   
reply to post by drivers1492
 


Im a hardcore carnivore but after watching Earthlings earlier this year I have made a few changes to my lifestyle. I dont buy any leather products, I dont go to places that have animals on display, I try wherever humanely possible to eat free range meat etc etc

Again to me the issue isnt eating meat, its torturing animals



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 03:53 PM
link   

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by drivers1492
 


Im a hardcore carnivore but after watching Earthlings earlier this year I have made a few changes to my lifestyle. I dont buy any leather products, I dont go to places that have animals on display, I try wherever humanely possible to eat free range meat etc etc

Again to me the issue isnt eating meat, its torturing animals


I see I missed your references in your earlier posts to eating meat. I understand where your coming from now. How do you buy any decent shoes though? I'm guessing lifestyle has alot to do with it but some of my best shoes for the farm are leather. Outside of muck boots.
Perhaps somewhere down the line a more humane way will come about for the food processing but I highly doubt it or at least not any time soon. I have a 6ft freezer full of meat downstairs. 37a and i think 68 are in there. Those were the tags of my steer. Along with some deer from last year that I really need to either eat or give to the neighbors. Eggs come from another neighbor down the hill a bit. All free range, but the reason is the taste is so much better.

I wonder though, many that are posting that chimps and all animals deserve equal rights and treatment yet eat meat....I wonder given the scenario you gave with a twist, if advanced beings came here and set up shop and wanted to eat us humanely. How does that set with them. In my mind the playing field is exactly like I responded the last time. I doubt they feel the same.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 04:11 PM
link   

drivers1492

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by drivers1492
 


Im a hardcore carnivore but after watching Earthlings earlier this year I have made a few changes to my lifestyle. I dont buy any leather products, I dont go to places that have animals on display, I try wherever humanely possible to eat free range meat etc etc

Again to me the issue isnt eating meat, its torturing animals


I see I missed your references in your earlier posts to eating meat. I understand where your coming from now. How do you buy any decent shoes though? I'm guessing lifestyle has alot to do with it but some of my best shoes for the farm are leather. Outside of muck boots.
Perhaps somewhere down the line a more humane way will come about for the food processing but I highly doubt it or at least not any time soon. I have a 6ft freezer full of meat downstairs. 37a and i think 68 are in there. Those were the tags of my steer. Along with some deer from last year that I really need to either eat or give to the neighbors. Eggs come from another neighbor down the hill a bit. All free range, but the reason is the taste is so much better.

I wonder though, many that are posting that chimps and all animals deserve equal rights and treatment yet eat meat....I wonder given the scenario you gave with a twist, if advanced beings came here and set up shop and wanted to eat us humanely. How does that set with them. In my mind the playing field is exactly like I responded the last time. I doubt they feel the same.


The changes have literally had no impact on my life (other than a pleasant drive every now and then to go to a farmto buy some beef and mutton, its a nice drive though
)

I still wear a pair of leather shoes I bought last year but Im a city boy and you can get shoes while maybe not as durable easily pass as leather to look at. I think thick rubber boots would serve you as well as leather on a farm.

And yes free range does taste better, normally due to the fact that there are less stress hormones in the produce.

As to your hypothetical, if an alien gave me the option to live my life in a city and live normally, ie free movement, free to socialise and mate lol, decent food and entertainment in exchange for the right to put me to sleep and then eat me at 70-80 Id probably take it haha



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 04:16 PM
link   
i find it disgusting ALL animals are tested on, ALL animals should have rights and not be tested on full stop. theres paedophiles in prison and just about everywhere that should be tested on. i don't care what disease it cures and who testing on animals cures, animals should not be tested on, whoever hurts an animal in any way is seriously twisted in the head.



new topics

top topics



 
6
<< 1  2  3    5  6 >>

log in

join