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Do Chimpanzees Deserve Rights?

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posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 12:52 PM
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TheWrightWing

IkNOwSTuff

beezzer
When chimps acknowledge my rights, I will acknowledge theirs.

2nd


When Chimps put you in a cage and torture you and your offspring for your entire lives then you can complain about them not acknowledging your rights


You mean like chimps who are kept as pets and who eventually end up eating someones face off?

Or chimps in the wild, who will do the very same thing?

Should they then serve prison terms for those assaults?


LMFAO

Please tell me your not serious????

The case of the Chimp your referring to, in my opinion it was acting human, it had been abducted from its mother when it was a baby and then kept in a cage and only came out to perform for peoples amusement. Someone did that to me I can guarantee 1st chance I got Id bite their face off as well.

As for them attacking us in the wild (their homes) its rare and Chimps are usually smart enough to avoid humans, but lets look at it from a human (and especially American) point of view.
If someone comes into your home and is there to do harm to you and your family do you not have a right to defend yourself? If you woke up in the middle of the night and someone was walking around your home would you politely ask who they were and what they were doing or would you shoot/pummel them till they were no longer a threat.

If you really believe what you wrote you my friend are an idiot




posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 





Most vegans dont even have a real issue with meat eating, the issue is the way the animals live and die.


If that little piggy has to be chained up for years and then shot in the head so i can get some good tasting meat then quite frankly i dont care.

I have seen how they kill those little piggys, and i have killed a few chickens myself

but I still eat the stuff.

I dont care about the pig, i care about the bacon



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by St0rD
 





We really do believe we are a superior race, don't we?


Because we are.



HAVE to save the 7 years old children, because, you know, he is human, and we deserve to live more than a kitten.


a 7 year old child does deserve more than a kitten.




The Flow of life is in all living things and life itselfs cannot be measured and understand fully by the mind. Only the way of life expressing itselfs in multiple living beings is different.


I can respect your beliefs but sorry no there is not some "flow of life in all living things" there is biology, and unless you can prove otherwise for now this debate is sticking with the facts.




Take the same story set as you did, but change the kittens for a 2,000 years tree. And now imagine you have the same driver going at tremendous speed, threatening the ancient tree OR the 7 years old boy.

What choice should be the right one then?


I would hit the tree (probably wake up on a hospital feeling very sore but not to bothered about the tree)



What is the difference between a tree, which has been transforming CO2 to O2 for millenia and given us all the right to live, or a 7 years old boy?


a tree does not give us the right to life but rather provides us with the means to do so, the two are not the same.

the difference is that one day the boy might build a desk were as one day the tree might simply just become a desk, and inanimate object created by the imagination of the human mind.




I'm looking towards your answer mate.


I have gave you my answer and i am still waiting for yours.

who do you kill, the 7 year old boy or the litter of kittens.
edit on 10-12-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:01 PM
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IkNOwSTuff

LMFAO

Please tell me your not serious????

The case of the Chimp your referring to, in my opinion it was acting human, it had been abducted from its mother when it was a baby and then kept in a cage and only came out to perform for peoples amusement. Someone did that to me I can guarantee 1st chance I got Id bite their face off as well.

As for them attacking us in the wild (their homes) its rare and Chimps are usually smart enough to avoid humans, but lets look at it from a human (and especially American) point of view.
If someone comes into your home and is there to do harm to you and your family do you not have a right to defend yourself? If you woke up in the middle of the night and someone was walking around your home would you politely ask who they were and what they were doing or would you shoot/pummel them till they were no longer a threat.

If you really believe what you wrote you my friend are an idiot


Chimp eating someones face off = "Acting Human" is it?

There were no reports of Bath Salts being involved.


A powerful chimpanzee charges and attacks a car full of people in Sierra Leone.


Jungle Breakout: Chimp Attack

Maybe that chimp should have gotten himself a public defender, a trial and an appropriate jail sentence, eh?

Are you an advocate of sentencing chimps to prison for violations of the law that demand it?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 





Most vegans dont even have a real issue with meat eating, the issue is the way the animals live and die.


If that little piggy has to be chained up for years and then shot in the head so i can get some good tasting meat then quite frankly i dont care.

I have seen how they kill those little piggys, and i have killed a few chickens myself

but I still eat the stuff.

I dont care about the pig, i care about the bacon


Shooting in the head is humane compared to what normally happens.
They dont "have" to be chained up, we do it because it makes bacon a few cents a kilo cheaper.

Once again for compassionate people its not the killing its the torture.

Your so convinced and self righteous that watching Earthlings will be a walk in the park and just an example of the world being the way it is, watch it and tell me thats still the case afterwards.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 





Shooting in the head is humane compared to what normally happens. They dont "have" to be chained up, we do it because it makes bacon a few cents a kilo cheaper.


you know in this economy if having a the little piggy dressing up as chimp will make my bacon a little cheaper, then i am going to want some of that bacon.

I dont care what they do to the pig so long as i get my bacon for a good price, because i like bacon.


edit on 10-12-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by TheWrightWing
 


To apply "human" rights to animals as you think of them is ridiculous.

When people talk about "human" rights they are talking about us using some humanity to make sure the animals dont suffer.

The chimp who ate the womans face off was using the tools it had, if it was human it would have used a gun or knife etc etc. Wanting to harm someone who has tortured you your whole life is very human yes.

As for attacking a car full of people, did the Chimp wander into a suburb and start going crazy or did these people drive 100 of miles to stare and point?
In all likely hood the chimp associates humans with death and kidnapping, I dont blame them for attacking the car.

Watch Earthlings and tell me the way we treat animals is fine, doesnt sound like it will affect yu so no harm done and youll be able to make and tell me my argument is weak.

Right now since you dont have all the info your argument is ignorant
edit on 10/12/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:13 PM
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IkNOwSTuff

OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 





Most vegans dont even have a real issue with meat eating, the issue is the way the animals live and die.


If that little piggy has to be chained up for years and then shot in the head so i can get some good tasting meat then quite frankly i dont care.

I have seen how they kill those little piggys, and i have killed a few chickens myself

but I still eat the stuff.

I dont care about the pig, i care about the bacon


Shooting in the head is humane compared to what normally happens.
They dont "have" to be chained up, we do it because it makes bacon a few cents a kilo cheaper.

Once again for compassionate people its not the killing its the torture.

Your so convinced and self righteous that watching Earthlings will be a walk in the park and just an example of the world being the way it is, watch it and tell me thats still the case afterwards.



20 stars to you! It was author Robert Anton Wilson, goddess rest his pointy little head, who wrote that only one person in a thousand knows that insects are people. Let alone pigs and chimps and that thing in the "creepy alien on the side of the building" video.

Pigs and chimps and the rest (except for the alien) have pretty much the same nervous system as we do. They are intelligent, kind, love their companion animals (humans), and what humans do is make them give you the skin off their back. When civilization reaches the point where other-than-human animals are seen as actually alive and pretty much deserving of staying alive (duh!) it will have grown into the next level. It's happening quicker than expected, mainly in the last forty years, and will accelerate at the same rate that getting rid of slavery, granting women rights, and the Civil Rights Movement in the U.S. grew, for at some point it will just be obvious to the majority of the human race and laws will quickly follow.

To paraphrase: "Teacher, leave those chimps alone!"
edit on 10-12-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-12-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-12-2013 by Aleister because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:15 PM
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Animals are nothing more than a resource.

Food, tools, amusement, property.

To pretend anything else is to believe Mickey Mouse is real.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:17 PM
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Aleister
Pigs and chimps and the rest (except for the alien) have pretty much the same nervous system as we do.


Woah woah woah...

What "alien" are you referring to?

And what do they taste like?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:19 PM
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OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 





Shooting in the head is humane compared to what normally happens. They dont "have" to be chained up, we do it because it makes bacon a few cents a kilo cheaper.


you know in this economy if having a the little piggy dressing up as chimp will make my bacon a little cheaper, then i am going to want some of that bacon.

I dont care what they do to the pig so long as i get my bacon for a good price, because i like bacon.


edit on 10-12-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)


The worst part is you seem to delight in the suffering, you make no apologies for it what so ever,
Your a sick individual if your not being facetious.

Thinking you know what these animals go through and then actually seeing and really knowing is a completely different ballgame

Watch Earthlings and if you still feel like you do now Ill eat my hat and post the vid online.

P.s Im not vegetarian or in any animal rights groups or anything like that, Im just trying to deny some Ignorance which you seem to willfully have alot of



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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TheWrightWing
Animals are nothing more than a resource.

Food, tools, amusement, property.

To pretend anything else is to believe Mickey Mouse is real.


Hardly, especially when not respected by the taker. To pretend anything else is to believe Mikey Mouse is real.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:24 PM
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TheWrightWing

Aleister
Pigs and chimps and the rest (except for the alien) have pretty much the same nervous system as we do.


Woah woah woah...

What "alien" are you referring to?

And what do they taste like?


They taste like soy chicken. I was referring to that alien who crawls on the side of that building in the now Hoaxed-video, if you haven't seen it it's pretty creepy - but not as creepy as what humans do to their animal neighbors (remember that bearded guy saying "Love thy neighbor as thyself"? You think he was only referring to humans?). Oh well, I couldn't resist. But that video is sideshow creepy unless you are positive it's CGI, and even then....



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:26 PM
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TheWrightWing
Animals are nothing more than a resource.

Food, tools, amusement, property.

To pretend anything else is to believe Mickey Mouse is real.


Hypothetical for you,

If Aliens did exist, were light years ahead of us technologically and one day landed on earth would it be OK for them to use us the way we use animals?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 




The worst part is you seem to delight in the suffering, you make no apologies for it what so ever, Your a sick individual if your not being facetious.


Let me just remind you of what i said in my first post on this thread i said that:

The only rights animals should have is the right to not be unnecessarily harmed (ie, lets cut off this dogs' let for a laugh) and laws to protect them form becoming extinct. But by all means use them to test out new face cremes, use them to test chemical weapons, use them for medical testing and experimentation and by all means use them for dinner.

I stand by that, and that does mean that i think it is sick for anyone to take joy in harming a animal just for the sake of it, i take no delight in their suffering but it if serves me then so be it. If the best way for me to get decent bacon is to cut a pig and let it bleed out over a hour then poor piggy but I will still eat that bacon.



Thinking you know what these animals go through and then actually seeing and really knowing is a completely different ballgame


I have seen it, and i have actually killed animals myself for food.

doesn't mean i wont keep eating my bacon.



Watch Earthlings and if you still feel like you do now Ill eat my hat and post the vid online.


I have seen it or a video like it before, a veggie mate of mine had me watch something probably very similar to your video.

Also what is with the "earthlings" stuff, are you not a "earthling"?




Im just trying to deny some Ignorance which you seem to willfully have alot of


No i am not ignorant i am just not very squeamish about where my dinner comes from.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by catfishjoe
 


If Charlton Heston were alive Today , he'd say No .



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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IkNOwSTuff
If Aliens did exist, were light years ahead of us technologically and one day landed on earth would it be OK for them to use us the way we use animals?


They could try.

Who else would stop them?

The Chimpanzee Army?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:28 PM
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Because we are superior.


I couldn't disagree more.

For example, if an ELE event was to occur in the next decades, we would have a very harsh time to survive because there is a high probability chance we fail to adapt quickly. Physically we are very weak, and even more in modern times with this society of technology we have created for ourselves. Living in our 'so perfect' little electricity homes.

So in this instance, who would be superior? Animals or humans?



I can respect your beliefs but sorry no there is not some "flow of life in all living things" there is biology, and unless you can prove otherwise for now this debate is sticking with the facts.


Nope, you certainly do not seem to respect my beliefs. You immediately claim right afterwards that there is no flow of life. How would you know that, heh?
Because science hasn't yet said so? Yeah, I've heard that a lot.

Because our mind mostly fail to grasp and realize how huge and marvelous this whole universe is, and how much energy (being the flow of life) has to be put in it at every second in order to stay alive and balanced, doesn't mean that the 'fact' doesn't exist. For me, flow of life in all living things is a certainty.

But please don't feel sorry for me because your mind of science hasn't acknowledged the existence of it yet.




a tree does not give us the right to life but rather provides us with the means to do so, the two are not the same.

the difference is that one day the boy might build a desk were as one day the tree might simply just become a desk, and inanimate object created by the imagination of the human mind.


Hum, alright.

And I could just go the other way and say that one day the boy will simply return to ground and become 'food' for the land that will supply the tree. It's all a matter of perception.






I have gave you my answer and i am still waiting for yours.

who do you kill, the 7 year old boy or the litter of kittens.
edit on 10-12-2013 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)


I thought I gave you my response in the other post. Can't you read between lines? extra DIV



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:29 PM
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TheWrightWing
Animals are nothing more than a resource.

Food, tools, amusement, property.

To pretend anything else is to believe Mickey Mouse is real.


Did a monkey throw poop on you when you were a kid? Where's the compassion?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 01:43 PM
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Thinking you know what these animals go through and then actually seeing and really knowing is a completely different ballgame Watch Earthlings and if you still feel like you do now Ill eat my hat and post the vid online
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff
 


I have seen the video you posted as well as a few others and thought I might respond since my views closely resemble OtherSideOfTheCoin. For many people you are exactly right seeing the way animals are processed leaves a very dark stain in their mind. While in many cases I see no need for some of the treatment shown in this vid and others one of the points that people seems to miss is the sheer volume of food that is produced. (notice I didn't say needed I simply said produced) That volume and the speed needed to accomplish it tends to leave no room for being kind and gentle. I am not saying this as an excuse it's simply just the way it is.

Now to address your point of the video. Did it make me feel different than I did before seeing it or others like it? No. You can label it as callous or sociopathic or anything you like but I'm indifferent to it. I personally refrain from killing almost anything unless it's for consumption simply because I don't have the need to. That doesn't mean I actually care if animals die it just serves no purpose for me. Should we stop using animals for testing? No. As pointed out in a previous post by another member, they are a resource like anything else on this planet. I also believe that those who have been convicted and sentenced to death be used as well to enhance that research. That would be a valuable resource in research. But, many disagree with that idea.

I often see folks like in this thread asking if we're superior to other animals. I think in ways we are. There are ways we aren't as well. I appreciate the beauty in nature and I love to see animals in the wild but I'm not going to worry myself over how we have come to harvest and process many of the animals for food. And honestly I can see no reason to think someone is not compassionate or has some issue because they are aware of how things are done and has no issue with it.



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