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Norinco T97 Bullpup (Chinese QBZ-95) Returns to Canada

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posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:09 AM
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www.thefirearmblog.com...




Despite a previous ban, the Norinco T97 is quickly becoming one of the most popular black rifles in Canada.



It is a .223 bullpup with a 19” barrel that uses a short stroke gas piston and a rotating bolt, along with a reciprocating charging handle. At its core, the Type 97 is a civilian version of the Chinese QBZ-95 rifle; standard issue to the Peoples Liberation Army.




Im surprised to see this back to being allowed in Canada. Being in the US, I am somewhat jealous of what the Canadians have access to sometimes. For example, in Canada, SKS's are still extremely cheap compared to what they're selling for down here. I believe they still import them from other countries, such as China.

Im also jealous of their SVT-40 collection they have up there. Good luck finding one of those down here for a reasonable price....

Back to the T97. Here's a wiki off the QBZ 95, which the T97 is born from.

en.wikipedia.org...

From what I can tell, the only difference between the QBZ and T97 is of course the magazine limit (5 rounds in Canada), and the cartridge. Instead of the Chinese 5.8x42, the T97 uses the 5.56x45. If these did end up showing up in the US, I would go with the 5.56, since it's extremely common. I don't believe I've ever seen 5.8x42 here. (I don't even know if it's even imported, or even legal to be imported?)

Obviously, I would like to have one of these. However, there doesn't seem to be much to do in terms of customization.


The design of the Type 97 fits into a 90s idea of small arms. Any kind of “modularity” is built around proprietary parts. There is a scope rail, but it’s specific to Chinese military optics. There is a flash hider, but not only is it pinned and welded, it uses a non-standard metric thread. As the product of a communist country: user experience comes second to the requirements of manufacture. Concepts like ambidexterity, customization, and standardization with other small arms are not prioritized.





Some history of the T97 in Canada.


The T97 was originally imported in 2008 and registered as non-restricted. The QBZ and its variants were not named in our list of prohibited guns that wiped out popular bullpups like the FAMAS and AUG.



But, an RCMP investigation determined that the initial batch could be converted to full-auto fire “with relative ease.” That model was re-classified as a prohibited firearm and all the guns that had been sold into private hands were confiscated (compensation from the federal government amounted to $800 per owner.) An entire shipment of T97s destined for Canadian customers was seized. Spiraling legal battles over the abrupt seizure and defining “easily converted” led to a common cry among Canadian gun-owners: “registration leads to confiscation.”



It’s been years of subtle redesign and another rigorous approval process by the RCMP Firearms Lab, but now the T97 is back on store shelves in a 100% semi-auto form. It no longer has to be registered with the government, does not require authorization to transport or transfer, and can be fired anywhere it is legal to hunt or shoot (unlike all the AR-15 variants in Canada)


edit on 10-12-2013 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:19 AM
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Get some CAD specs and 3D print your own?

Didn't someone print out an M1911 pistol 3D printed from metal?

Not sure of the legality of such, but, someone could prolly print out the full auto version too?




posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 02:42 AM
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AliceBleachWhite

Get some CAD specs and 3D print your own?

Didn't someone print out an M1911 pistol 3D printed from metal?

Not sure of the legality of such, but, someone could prolly print out the full auto version too?





Getting all the specs right and printing an AR or AK is hard enough, even considering how widely available and popular they are. (Im not even sure anyone has successfully printed one of those and had the rifle last past a few rounds).

Then going over to something like the QBZ is 100x tougher. The design is pretty new. I believe the rifle first came into Chinese military service in the mid 90's. I don't know of anywhere other than Canada that this rifle is available to civilians. And for it being a current issue Chinese military rifle, I wouldn't be surprised if they have their specs hidden (of course their full-auto version is) to the public.

As for legality, Im not sure, atleast on the 3d printer side. As for importing guns from China, I think it was Clinton that banned the import of arms from China back in the 90s, and that's another reason why the cheap Chinese SKS's went up in price here in the US. (I think they can be held in another country for atleast 10 years, and then can be imported).



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 03:01 AM
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reply to post by buni11687
 


Not a bad looking firearm. I've always wanted to fire a bullpup rifle, haven't had the chance yet. Sucks they're limited to 5 rounds per mag in Canada, though.

Just checked GB and couldn't find a single one on there. I for whatever reason, like to check prices of firearms I know I'll never buy.







I don't believe I've ever seen 5.8x42 here

I've never seen it here, either. Then again, there are no guns that fire that type of ammo around here that I've seen, so it would make sense that shops wouldn't stock it here, even if they could import it.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by buni11687
 


Well, it's not exactly consumer feasible right now, but, there are 3D Scanners that can work in tandem with 3D printers.

I'd think that in 3D printing a successful firearm, it'd come down to having the right materials for the right functions where one would need access to a few different types of 3D printers that work in various materials.

Barrels for firearms, I would think an exception due the rifling twists complex metallurgy. Any gunsmith, however, I'd think, would have tools and means to tool out any barrel design one might want.
There aren't any restrictions on barrel designs are there? (suppressor add-ons and such being an exception)

Back to 3D scanners; it could be a matter of having mates in Canada, or anywhere else a desired, rare, exotic, or interesting firearm is located obtain access to a high fidelity 3D scanner, disassemble the firearm, scan all its parts, and then upload the files to internet, or email the files.

Certainly there'd be cost involved in getting someone access to a 3D Scanner, but, it'd likely be less expensive paying someone to do that, with less legal risk than trying to smuggle something.

Once high resolution scans and the files of such are obtained, it should just be a matter of getting each part printed using the right materials.

I think the failure of current 3D printed firearms is primarily reliant on them being printed from materials that aren't suited to the task.

Someone could probably 3D print a boat out of cotton candy, but, from a material standpoint, once it hits the water, the results shouldn't be all that surprising.
Parts are parts and material used for the right task should be a consideration.




posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 03:14 AM
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kx12x
reply to post by buni11687
 


Not a bad looking firearm. I've always wanted to fire a bullpup rifle, haven't had the chance yet. Sucks they're limited to 5 rounds per mag in Canada, though.

Just checked GB and couldn't find a single one on there. I for whatever reason, like to check prices of firearms I know I'll never buy.







I don't believe I've ever seen 5.8x42 here

I've never seen it here, either. Then again, there are no guns that fire that type of ammo around here that I've seen, so it would make sense that shops wouldn't stock it here, even if they could import it.


I checked GB once I found this article to, and for the same reason. I also have yet to fire a bullpup. Side note- Steyr just recently started selling their AUG's here. Not the Microtec remakes that have been around, but Steyr's own. They're still about $2,000 a piece though.

For the 5.8 ammo, I don't know of any other guns that use that ammo either. I haven't heard of anyone making that ammo other than the Chinese military, so there's no chance of us seeing that here unless someone else decides to start making it in a country that we can import from. (I wouldn't be surprised if Tula or another Russian ammo manufacturer jumped on this in the future....only if another country started making the QBZ design (or some other rifle made for the 5.8) that can be imported into the US). Unless that happens, there's no chance we will see it here.


edit on 10-12-2013 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-12-2013 by buni11687 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by buni11687
 


Being a gun fanatic myself, I'll be the first to say I know nothing of the T-97 or how easy it would be to print it out.
As for the AR and AK weapons, the AR lower would be easy as it is milled from a block.
The AK is a bent piece of sheet metal, so I'd imagine thickness of materials would be the worst enemy there.
Getting back to the T-97, I don't know what the Main serial numbered frame looks like, or if it is printable.
But every other non serialed piece could legally be shipped in or manufactured here in the US, they are only parts.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 04:06 AM
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real men do it with knives



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 04:56 AM
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Biigs
real men do it with knives

Yeah, and cavemen used to say the same thing about clubs versus swords.
Someday I'll complain about those darned laser weapons I suppose.
And I'll say, "Back in the day, we didn't have no dern 10000 shot power pack, we were limited to ten or thirty rounds, and real men fought with firearms, not those fancified citified weapons you youngins got nowadays."
Someday I will get to be a hipster too!




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