I need a doco about Atlantis/Lemuria!

Hey guys!

My partner is really keen to watch a doco about Atlantis etc but I can't seem to find one that well done...if you know what I mean?

I showed him 'Revelations of the Pyramids' and he loved it- are there any more out there in the same kinds of style?
Thanks

reply to post by samuel1990


I know what you're looking for, but I can't say I've ever seen one that would be similar.
There's one out there somewhere based on the idea that Santorini was Atlantis, but I don't buy into that theory. I think there's a lot more to the story than that.

This one was interesting, but I'm not sure that these findings really do point to Atlantis either:

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Awen24


Thanks for the reply! Interesting you post about Santorini! We watched a 40 min youtube vid that was saying that Atlantis was in Santorini, and to be honest I told my partner this was a #e doco and rolled a smoke haha.
My partner loved it, he said it was great. But I was looking for something a little more..... in depth? I don't know lol.


Just didn't hit the spot! Cheers again for the reply!

Documentaries about fictitious places are known as feature presentations.

Both Are fictitious places.

samuel1990
reply to post by Awen24

 

.. and to be honest I told my partner this was a #e doco and rolled a smoke haha.
I was looking for something a little more..... in depth? I don't know lol.
Just didn't hit the spot!

Revelations of the Pyramids is an excellent reference video.
Truly does explain a good mystery!

I see you prefer the educational videos..?

Try Carl Munck - The Code (found on youtube)
You will walk away with a unique understanding.
www.youtube.com...
1 hour and 51 min. long so you may need to roll atleast one..LOl

Finding a true perspective on the fabled Atlantis in my opinion,
can not be found.
After researching the unexplained monuments strewn across our great planet,
one starts to wonder if the fable of Atlantis was not about a devistated island
but indeed our Planet.

Much luck in your quest and watch out for proverbial rabbit holes!

There's a pretty good one I found long ago. It's like 13 hours long and discusses many aspects of the ancient past. Some might be a little hard to swallow but it certainly paints quite a picture. Let me see if I can find it.

I can't find it off hand but you might like this:



If you can get through the cartoon graphics it's quite thought provoking. I haven't seen this one but going to watch it now. But I did see some others from the creator of this one.

Awen24
I know what you're looking for, but I can't say I've ever seen one that would be similar.
There's one out there somewhere based on the idea that Santorini was Atlantis, but I don't buy into that theory. I think there's a lot more to the story than that.

Can I ask why?

Here is another documentary that IMHO proves well that atlantis really is Santorini island.



It all makes sense, and there is a lot of evidence to support Santorini as Atlantis. More they uncover, more story is believable.

reply to post by samuel1990


I think someone needs material for a homework assignment lol

Try Tsarion he is great at just making things up about mythical places like Atlantis

This is the closest you will come to discovering Atlantis.

www.theguardian.com...

SuperFrog
It all makes sense, and there is a lot of evidence to support Santorini as Atlantis. More they uncover, more story is believable.

Please present your evidence that the culture on Thera extends 12,000 years into the past.

Without that, Santorini cannot be considered to have been Atlantis.

Harte

OccamsRazor04
This is the closest you will come to discovering Atlantis.

www.theguardian.com...

In my opinion, story of Minonian civilization is closest to that one of Atlantis. It was far more advanced than rest of civilizations of their time. At their end, somewhere between 1650 and 1500 BC huge vulcanic eruption caused center of their civilization to sink to bottom of the see in a day. Huge tsunami that flowed eruption caused future devastation to civilization. What was left of once advanced civilization was destroyed later by Greeks as told by Plato.

To understand why some things from original story don't match - let's look at how did story reach Plato.

Story was told to Solon (638-558BC) by Egyptian priests in Sais, then passed trough couple of generations to Socrates (469-399BC) and finally got written by Plato (427-347BC) who was Socrates student. Plato heard story as kid and wrote it, but unfortunately, never managed to finish it. It is very possible that firstly Solon, who visited Egypt in 590 BC and who did not speak very well Egyptian and time Plato wrote story around 200 years later that story does not match exactly to what Egyptian priest have originally have told Solon. 9000 years can be either misunderstood or lost in time story was written.

Today we know that many details, like warm and cold water available in building, sanitation, tall buildings and well design streets all matches what is uncovered from remains on Santorini. Just for example fact that they had multilevel buildings with working sanitation much before 1500BC is IMHO very astonishing.

To all of this, add that Greek have WON war against Atlantians as suggested by Plato also matches findings that they did conquer remains of Minonian civilization that was left after this cataclysmic event.

Reason today story sound different is because Nazi and others romanticized and used story for their different agendas.

I really suggest to everyone interest to watch documentary I have already posted above.



Also following documentary goes into more details...




EDIT: @ Harte - is this sufficient to start serious discussion?

SuperFrog
In my opinion, story of Minonian civilization is closest to that one of Atlantis. It was far more advanced than rest of civilizations of their time. At their end, somewhere between 1650 and 1500 BC huge vulcanic eruption caused center of their civilization to sink to bottom of the see in a day.

Not so. The Minoans on Crete continued for centuries after this.

SuperFrog
To understand why some things from original story don't match - let's look at how did story reach Plato.

Story was told to Solon (638-558BC) by Egyptian priests in Sais, then passed trough couple of generations to Socrates (469-399BC) and finally got written by Plato (427-347BC) who was Socrates student. Plato heard story as kid and wrote it, but unfortunately, never managed to finish it. It is very possible that firstly Solon, who visited Egypt in 590 BC and who did not speak very well Egyptian and time Plato wrote story around 200 years later that story does not match exactly to what Egyptian priest have originally have told Solon. 9000 years can be either misunderstood or lost in time story was written.

The large majority of the above is pure speculation. For example, there is no evidence whatsoever of any involvement of Socrates. There is no knowledge whatsoever of when (or even if) Solon visited Egypt (though it's pretty certain that he did.) There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Plato heard the story from anyone at all.

SuperFrog
To all of this, add that Greek have WON war against Atlantians as suggested by Plato also matches findings that they did conquer remains of Minonian civilization that was left after this cataclysmic event.

The story is that the Athenians defeated the Atlanteans. The Minoans were eventually overrun by the Mycenaeans, not the Athenians.

SuperFrog
Reason today story sound different is because Nazi and others romanticized and used story for their different agendas.

Actually, the Nazi's took the version (fiction) that was fabricated by Helena Blavatsky, as did Ignatius Donnelly, half a century before the Nazis

SuperFrog
I really suggest to everyone interest to watch documentary I have already posted above.

Also following documentary goes into more details...

It is my opinion that both are a waste of time. Nobody has ever come up with any evidence that the Greeks of Plato's time even knew about Thera. To me, that means that Plato, writing his fictional account, most likely did not base it on what happened at Thera.

IMO, Plato's use of the disaster to bring an end to his fabled Atlanteans was more likely influenced by what happened at Helike, during Plato's lifetime and not too far from his birthplace.

Harte

Harte
Not so. The Minoans on Crete continued for centuries after this.

You mean what's left of Minoans after eruption and tidal wave? Sure, there was some survivors, but their civilization stagnated abruptly around time of eruption.

Harte
The large majority of the above is pure speculation. For example, there is no evidence whatsoever of any involvement of Socrates. There is no knowledge whatsoever of when (or even if) Solon visited Egypt (though it's pretty certain that he did.) There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Plato heard the story from anyone at all.

Critias: Then listen, Socrates, to a strange tale, which is, however, certainly true, as Solon, who was the wisest of the seven sages, declared. He was a relative and great friend of my great-grandfather, Dropidas, as he himself says in several of his poems; and Dropidas told Critias, my grandfather, who remembered, and told us, that there were of old great and marvelous actions of the Athenians, which have passed into oblivion through time and the destruction of the human race and one in particular, which was the greatest of them all, the recital of which will be a suitable testimony of our gratitude to you....

As for Solon visit to Egypt, in book Solon of Athen's - Poet, Philosopher, Soldier, Statesman you can find another record that valudates Plato. He did not just go to Egypt, he made 10 year long tour and stayed there a bit longer, learning from Egyptians.

One of videos I posted mention that they found Egyptian records of his visit, but I could not find much online. I know that temple he visited and city that are mentioned by Plato were destroyed somewhere ~1100AD. (this is from top of my head, I can find more refference if needed)

In my opinion, we have more then once source telling of Solon's visit to Egypt, and those are not all speculations. At least Plato makes it sound like it was not.

Harte
The story is that the Athenians defeated the Atlanteans. The Minoans were eventually overrun by the Mycenaeans, not the Athenians.

Which goes closer to my previous attempt to prove that story has background, but it is not 100% true, due to time of origin, passing trough multiple people to finally being written by Plato. Sure, it is speculation, but does make sense that Solon would assign victory to his own, Athenians.

Harte
Actually, the Nazi's took the version (fiction) that was fabricated by Helena Blavatsky, as did Ignatius Donnelly, half a century before the Nazis

Isn't that what I said that Nazi and others turned story into something that really was not.

Harte
It is my opinion that both are a waste of time. Nobody has ever come up with any evidence that the Greeks of Plato's time even knew about Thera. To me, that means that Plato, writing his fictional account, most likely did not base it on what happened at Thera.

IMO, Plato's use of the disaster to bring an end to his fabled Atlanteans was more likely influenced by what happened at Helike, during Plato's lifetime and not too far from his birthplace.

Wouldn't eruption of Thera leave mark on Greek civilization elswere, as well on other civilizations, especially that now its believed to be much higher magnitude then previously believed. We know that Minonians were trading civilization, and as shown in video that you said are waste of time, they were a bit more advanced than Greeks and Egyptians. I am not sure if there are any documents left from Hittites. Compared to Hittites, who were also advanced civilization of its time.

Sure, whole story might be fiction, even if Plato told us that is based on true story.

SuperFrog

Harte
Not so. The Minoans on Crete continued for centuries after this.

You mean what's left of Minoans after eruption and tidal wave? Sure, there was some survivors, but their civilization stagnated abruptly around time of eruption.

Harte
The large majority of the above is pure speculation. For example, there is no evidence whatsoever of any involvement of Socrates. There is no knowledge whatsoever of when (or even if) Solon visited Egypt (though it's pretty certain that he did.) There is no reason whatsoever to believe that Plato heard the story from anyone at all.

Critias: Then listen, Socrates, to a strange tale, which is, however, certainly true, as Solon, who was the wisest of the seven sages, declared. He was a relative and great friend of my great-grandfather, Dropidas, as he himself says in several of his poems; and Dropidas told Critias, my grandfather, who remembered, and told us, that there were of old great and marvelous actions of the Athenians, which have passed into oblivion through time and the destruction of the human race and one in particular, which was the greatest of them all, the recital of which will be a suitable testimony of our gratitude to you....

As your quote shows, it was the fictional character Critias that heard the story - not Socrates.

Also, you're aware, I hope, that Socrates never actually heard the story? The Socrates in your quote was a character in Plato's tale, the actual Socrates was dead well before Plato wrote this.

You shouldn't confuse allegory with reality, especially on the level you just showed.

That is, here you seem to think that Plato's Dialogues are transcripts of real conversations when nothing could be further from the truth.

As for Solon visit to Egypt, in book Solon of Athen's - Poet, Philosopher, Soldier, Statesman you can find another record that valudates Plato. He did not just go to Egypt, he made 10 year long tour and stayed there a bit longer, learning from Egyptians.

Your source rightly states that Plutarch is the only source for this. The info comes from Plutarch's commentary on Plato's Critias.

IOW, that source is also Plato. You can't use Plato as a reference to support Plato.

One of videos I posted mention that they found Egyptian records of his visit, but I could not find much online. I know that temple he visited and city that are mentioned by Plato were destroyed somewhere ~1100AD. (this is from top of my head, I can find more refference if needed)

Yes, they are needed.
BTW, you realize that I stated that Solon certainly did visit Egypt, right?

Solon was basically run out of Greece. He only became a Greek hero in retrospect.

He was a rich and powerful politician. Such people very often toured the known world upon retirement and even before. It was sort of the thing to do. Common, in other words. And obviously, with the Greek fetish for everything Egyptian, Egypt was a hot spot on such tours.

Harte
The story is that the Athenians defeated the Atlanteans. The Minoans were eventually overrun by the Mycenaeans, not the Athenians.

Which goes closer to my previous attempt to prove that story has background, but it is not 100% true, due to time of origin, passing trough multiple people to finally being written by Plato. Sure, it is speculation, but does make sense that Solon would assign victory to his own, Athenians.

There isn't even a hint of this story until Plato. That's a time span of a thousand years. How was the story preserved? There's no trace of it in Egypt.

Wouldn't eruption of Thera leave mark on Greek civilization elswere, as well on other civilizations, especially that now its believed to be much higher magnitude then previously believed. We know that Minonians were trading civilization, and as shown in video that you said are waste of time, they were a bit more advanced than Greeks and Egyptians. I am not sure if there are any documents left from Hittites. Compared to Hittites, who were also advanced civilization of its time.

There were other similar cultures at the time, just not in the Med. Harappan comes to mind, Indus Valley.

There were no "Greeks" when Thera erupted. There were Mycaeneans. Though there is a very interesting connection between the two (see the Homeric Question - link,) they are not the same and in fact their cultures are not even really related.

Sure, whole story might be fiction, even if Plato told us that is based on true story.

Plato used that same literary device in other dialogues.
Talking about the Greek Heaven and Hell in the dialogue Gorgias:

Listen, then, as story-tellers say, to a very pretty tale, which I dare say that you may be disposed to regard as a fable only, but which, as I believe, is a true tale, for I mean to speak the truth” (Benjamin Jowett translation).

He used the same device at the end of The Republic, and also in Meno and in Laws.

Harte

Do you think that the human races that lived upon the different hemispheres had no idea that another hemisphere/continent existed?

There were rare rumours about the western continents which had pyramids, 'advanced' cultures, governments, amazing architecture and knowledge of astronomy. It would be ignorant to claim fact that the two hemispheres did not have at least one accidental visitor to tell the tale.

Researching Viracocha it is interesting that these advanced people who taught the ancient americans their knowledge came from the seas.

I believe that Atlantis is a vague, over sensationalized version of a ancient rumour of a continent with advanced cultures living in it. Remember when the Spaniards came across these meso american cities they thought they had died and gone to heaven, they have never seen such beauty with villages built upon waters as described in the criteria.

Anyways, the best Atlantis documentary I have seen has to be this one...

reply to post by Shadow Herder


Awesome, thanks Shadow Herder!

I'll have to give this a watch over the weekend! Really appreciate the reply

HumAnnunaki

samuel1990
reply to post by Awen24

 

.. and to be honest I told my partner this was a #e doco and rolled a smoke haha.
I was looking for something a little more..... in depth? I don't know lol.
Just didn't hit the spot!

Revelations of the Pyramids is an excellent reference video.
Truly does explain a good mystery!

I see you prefer the educational videos..?

Try Carl Munck - The Code (found on youtube)
You will walk away with a unique understanding.
www.youtube.com...
1 hour and 51 min. long so you may need to roll atleast one..LOl

Finding a true perspective on the fabled Atlantis in my opinion,
can not be found.
After researching the unexplained monuments strewn across our great planet,
one starts to wonder if the fable of Atlantis was not about a devistated island
but indeed our Planet.

Much luck in your quest and watch out for proverbial rabbit holes!

edit on 10-12-2013 by HumAnnunaki because: (no reason given)

Brilliant! Another one I can add to my list of weekend viewing! Thanks for that!

samuel1990
Brilliant! Another one I can add to my list of weekend viewing! Thanks for that!

Hi Sam -

So happy to see the younger generation still interested
in the forgotten mysterious history of our planet!
We need more of the 'new learners' to seek out and
distribute the truth behind our forgotten lineage!!!

Suffice it to say after 51 years on this planet - I see different things.
If your truly interested in a good mystery; check out this thread
I penned earlier this December (show it to your other half)
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's mostly pictures with my personal musings attached
but it will give you a totally different insight into history.
(oh yes - you will need to 'roll one' first - just sayin' :cool

Feel free to leave a comment...

ENJOY

Harte
As your quote shows, it was the fictional character Critias that heard the story - not Socrates.

Until 1914 it was believe that Critias really existed, and since 1914 some dispute Critias being real person. I believe historians are still divided on this issue.

Harte
Also, you're aware, I hope, that Socrates never actually heard the story? The Socrates in your quote was a character in Plato's tale, the actual Socrates was dead well before Plato wrote this.

If I remember correctly, Plato wrote this at the end of his life, but he accounted something that he heard as kid, thus helping my idea that story might be somewhat changed from its original thanks to oral character until it was written down.

Harte
You shouldn't confuse allegory with reality, especially on the level you just showed.

That is, here you seem to think that Plato's Dialogues are transcripts of real conversations when nothing could be further from the truth.

So, how do we know that similar discussion really did not happen?

Please help me, is this really Plato's family tree or not?



If not, what proof we have that its not?

Harte
Your source rightly states that Plutarch is the only source for this. The info comes from Plutarch's commentary on Plato's Critias.

IOW, that source is also Plato. You can't use Plato as a reference to support Plato.

Yes, they are needed.
BTW, you realize that I stated that Solon certainly did visit Egypt, right?

I was under impression that you did not believe he ever visited Egypt.

Harte
Solon was basically run out of Greece. He only became a Greek hero in retrospect.

He was a rich and powerful politician. Such people very often toured the known world upon retirement and even before. It was sort of the thing to do. Common, in other words. And obviously, with the Greek fetish for everything Egyptian, Egypt was a hot spot on such tours.

OK... so? So he was in Egypt, but Plato's account that he heard story of Thera from 900 years earlier that Egyptian thanks to trading ties as well thank to tidal wave might have ecnounter. I am sure that earthquake, eruption and tidal wave could be well felt in Egypt of its time. Survivors surely did contact Egyptians.

Why is it so unbelievable that Solon was told the story, but thanks to his not so good Egyptian as well thanks to his age he made some small changes, as one for name and location of civilization.

Harte
There isn't even a hint of this story until Plato. That's a time span of a thousand years. How was the story preserved? There's no trace of it in Egypt.

No trace so far. As I said earlier, temple where Solon heard the story does not exist any more.

Wiki
There are today no surviving traces of this town prior to the Late New Kingdom (c.1100 BC) due to the extensive destruction of the city by the Sebakhin (farmers removing mud brick deposits for use as fertilizer) leaving only a few relief blocks in situ.*

Source - Wiki - Sais, Egypt

Please note that Sais was capitol of Egypt in timeframe when Solon visited Egypt.

Harte
There were other similar cultures at the time, just not in the Med. Harappan comes to mind, Indus Valley.

There were no "Greeks" when Thera erupted. There were Mycaeneans. Though there is a very interesting connection between the two (see the Homeric Question - link,) they are not the same and in fact their cultures are not even really related.

Aren't Muceaneans pre-ancient greeks? Now, what is interesting to me is that their civlizaiton starts just after Thera eruption, around 1600BC. Their alphabet is believed to derive from Lienar A, Minonian alphabet that has not been deciphered yet. Are those 2 coincidence?

Harte
Plato used that same literary device in other dialogues.
Talking about the Greek Heaven and Hell in the dialogue Gorgias:

Listen, then, as story-tellers say, to a very pretty tale, which I dare say that you may be disposed to regard as a fable only, but which, as I believe, is a true tale, for I mean to speak the truth” (Benjamin Jowett translation).

He used the same device at the end of The Republic, and also in Meno and in Laws.

Harte

I don't have a problem that he believed in Gods and religion of his time being true. I also have no problem that he believed that story he claimed was passed from Solon to Socrates and he heard it as kid being connected to real events that predates Greeks.

I believe I already mention, it is possible that Solon wrote about Atheneans winning the war against Atlantis because Mycaeneans predated ancient Greek, thus earlier Athenians won the war...

IMHO, story about Atlantis is more then just fiction, but it is not either completely true and as reported by Plato.

I really hope that one day we can read Minonians as well that we uncover more of this once great civilization.


Couple of links for end:

news.bbc.co.uk...

en.wikipedia.org...

www.people.ku.edu...

www.livescience.com...

That fiery explosion killed upwards of 40,000 people in just a few hours, produced colossal tsunamis 40 feet tall, spewed volcanic ash across Asia, and caused a drop in global temperatures and created strangely colored sunsets for three years. The blast was heard 3,000 miles away.

Thera's eruption was four or five times more powerful than Krakatoa, geologists believe, exploding with the energy of several hundred atomic bombs in a fraction of a second.

I'm looking for any serious documentaries on Aquaman, if anyone can help. Thanks.