ALEC calls for penalties on 'freerider' homeowners in assault on clean energy

Yes, the American Legislative Exchange Council have set a number of legislative goals in time for 2014 and among them is a new law to penalize homeowners who install their own solar panels. Why on earth would anybody support this? It's beyond me.

An alliance of corporations and conservative activists is mobilising to penalise homeowners who install their own solar panels – casting them as "freeriders" – in a sweeping new offensive against renewable energy, the Guardian has learned.

Over the coming year, the American Legislative Exchange Council (Alec) will promote legislation with goals ranging from penalising individual homeowners and weakening state clean energy regulations, to blocking the Environmental Protection Agency, which is Barack Obama's main channel for climate action.

www.theguardian.com...

Frankly if this group wishes to continue targeting such laws as Obama's ACA, it's really indifferent to me, but when it comes to laws hindering the rights of home owners to invest in solar panels, it baffles me. I'm not sure why some people are set against the use of solar panels? Solar power has no ideology, alternative energy has no side. A family who learns to cut down costs and become more energy independent by investing in solar power and other energies is to me something everybody should embrace.

Further on this:

Further details of Alec's strategy were provided by John Eick, the legislative analyst for Alec's energy, environment and agriculture program.

Eick told the Guardian the group would be looking closely in the coming year at how individual homeowners with solar panels are compensated for feeding surplus electricity back into the grid.

"This is an issue we are going to be exploring," Eick said. He said Alec wanted to lower the rate electricity companies pay homeowners for direct power generation – and maybe even charge homeowners for feeding power into the grid.

"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers are being penalised," he said.

Unbelievable. The lengths people will go to protect corporate profits and political group interests?

Solar panels have improved enormously, and our consumption has dropped because of digital devices therefore its completely possible to get off grid!! And thats why your seeing this BS. The energy masters dont want you to have it!

ETA: Am I right in thinking that I read on one of our recent threads that in some states you have to pay a tax for each kw generated via solar panel?


ETA2: They are taxing your sunlight....!!!!

When will you guys stand up and say ENOUGH!!!

These mother truckers need to be erased from existence.
They are simply corporate shills who work for those who already provide electricity to us at very exorbitant rates....
I wish more people in North America had the guts to revolt....till then well all be screwed by these arseholes.

So just don't tell them you have solar panels. If the circuitry is separate from the grid who would know. Still keep the meter hooked up and pay the minimum and maybe keep the fridge on it.

rickymouse
So just don't tell them you have solar panels. If the circuitry is separate from the grid who would know. Still keep the meter hooked up and pay the minimum and maybe keep the fridge on it.

Satellites.......Seriously,
My insurance company used satellite photos to validate that I had actually had my roof replaced before paying the contractor.

I saw the before and after satellite photos myself.

My city permitting department uses satellite imaging to check for nonpermitted home improvements, pools, boat docks ect.

Gotta "love" this use of technology.

Just another example how the right is on the wrong side of most debates. How is this smaller government? This is more taxes and regulation, these things are bad right?

Its Arizona where the energy companies just imposed a fee or tax on kw hours produced by solar .

As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers are being penalised," he said.

I guess it's just me but this statement seems silly.

Does anyone else see the problem?

I mean I could be reading it wrong.

reply to post by rickymouse

rickymouse
So just don't tell them you have solar panels.

People shouldn't be penalized for investing in free energy, they shouldn't be penalized for choosing to live energy independent, to live off the grid. For somebody who has been so outspoken against 'big government' and taxation you certainly don't seem to care about this, you don't seem to have an issue, why is this I have to wonder?

OK, this is Utra-Lame! I have heard of idiotic laws, but this is just egreigous overreach. It is bad enough them telling people it is illegal to catch rainwater that fall on their land because the Water Management Division owns it. Well, now they think they own the local star and its output. I have not been pushed personally to call for summary execution of idiots like these, but this about gets me there. Who do these people think they are to lay claim to resources like sun and water that falls from the sky. Next thing you know California will be suing New Mexico because the clouds droped their rain there instead of their state that the cloud formed over.

Really folks. Things are absolutely and completely out of control. It is as if they have been driving at every little thing they can to start a revolution. The people have not obliged frankly because either their too stupid to realize what is going on, or they are smart enough to know they are trying to get the people to do something violent so they can claim martial law and deploy there plans that they have been setting up theater deployed munitions, medical supplies, and food for the army they have put together through the DHS. I feel it is not a matter of if it will happen any more, but when will the people get off their couches and hit the streets to do something about it. This just irks the heck out of me. And they probably will get it passed. Anything that generates revenue through taxes, fees, or penalties is on the table now. Their spending has got so completely out of hand that they now need to economically attack the people for more money to spend or currently pay intrest payments on. We are in a time where the wheels are about to come off this vehicle. And the crash is going to be a messy one. Good luck to all my fellow ATS Members in the coming revolution, or whatever it turns out to be.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Ok I am by no stretch of the imagination a fan of the EPA,or some of these whacked feel good environmental groups, but you but you can better believe I am going to have wind and solar on my home. If they want to call it freeloading for trying to help ease our energy dependence by selling it back to the power company's then I guess I wont.

F'ing idiots.

Grim

Because many of these conservative groups support the energy industry, and despite their claims of wanting people to be more self sufficient and independent from the government, they still want to enslave you financially via energy, fuel, and other things. The more people that go off the grid and generate their own electricity, the less you give to the energy giants. Can't have that.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Because many of these conservative groups support the energy industry, and despite their claims of wanting people to be more self sufficient and independent from the government, they still want to enslave you financially via energy, fuel, and other things. The more people that go off the grid and generate their own electricity, the less you give to the energy giants. Can't have that.

What ALEC is doing is NOT conservative nor does it fit ALEC's mission statement, which mentions greater liberty as one of its goals. The words are fine but the deeds are altogether stifling to individual freedom.

Unfortunately it is but another corporate mouth piece, I personally hate it when what's better termed oligarchy and patronage is couched in calling itself conservative - that is so far from the truth it's not funny.

It is groups like these that keeps all of us so far apart in the political arena by hijacking terms to describe itself that do not apply.

Wiki

According to ALEC watch and IRS documents, ALEC receives 95% of its funding from foundations, corporations, other nonprofits, meeting revenue and the sale of its publications.[77][78] In 2010 NPR reported that tax records showed that corporations had collectively paid as much as $6 million a year

Anything limiting peoples choice and independence like this proposed limit on solar or instituting fees and taxes is just harebrained to be mild about it, Criminal in another way.

Just as I believe the traditional liberal movement has suffered a hijacking by extremists I too believe same can be said of traditional conservatives by a case like this.

Put as simply as I can, anything that takes the rights of others or gives favor to a group over others to fit an agenda is just plain wrong no matter its source.

Phoenix

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Because many of these conservative groups support the energy industry, and despite their claims of wanting people to be more self sufficient and independent from the government, they still want to enslave you financially via energy, fuel, and other things. The more people that go off the grid and generate their own electricity, the less you give to the energy giants. Can't have that.

What ALEC is doing is NOT conservative nor does it fit ALEC's mission statement, which mentions greater liberty as one of its goals. The words are fine but the deeds are altogether stifling to individual freedom.

Unfortunately it is but another corporate mouth piece, I personally hate it when what's better termed oligarchy and patronage is couched in calling itself conservative - that is so far from the truth it's not funny.

It is groups like these that keeps all of us so far apart in the political arena by hijacking terms to describe itself that do not apply.

Wiki

According to ALEC watch and IRS documents, ALEC receives 95% of its funding from foundations, corporations, other nonprofits, meeting revenue and the sale of its publications.[77][78] In 2010 NPR reported that tax records showed that corporations had collectively paid as much as $6 million a year

Anything limiting peoples choice and independence like this proposed limit on solar or instituting fees and taxes is just harebrained to be mild about it, Criminal in another way.

Just as I believe the traditional liberal movement has suffered a hijacking by extremists I too believe same can be said of traditional conservatives by a case like this.

Put as simply as I can, anything that takes the rights of others or gives favor to a group over others to fit an agenda is just plain wrong no matter its source.

Total agreement. Special interest harming environment and individual liberty.

rickymouse
So just don't tell them you have solar panels. If the circuitry is separate from the grid who would know. Still keep the meter hooked up and pay the minimum and maybe keep the fridge on it.

Why? Why scully around like a sewer rat for doing the right thing or as you will freely?

The resources of the planet belong to all and everyone has the right to create their own energy from the wind/sun or anything they choose practically. If someone is trying take your equal right to life liberty and resources away from you they are freeloading off of you by demanding your slavery.

Why lie or hide or bow down and pretend you're not doing it.

SHOUT IT OUT THAT THEY ARE ILLEGAL SLAVERY MOTIVATE FOOLS AND DEMONS AND THAT THEY WILL NEVER STOP YOU. YOU WILL NEVER OBEY THEM AND THEY WILL BE TAKEN TO COURT OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND SUED FOR THE EXPENSES OF THE COURT SYSTEM AND MORE....SO THEY STOP DOING THIS CRAPOLA EVERY YOU TURN AROUND.

BE LOUD, BE VERY VERY LOUD AND RIGHTEOUS!

The mistake everyone seems to make is that when some bully or slaver or pathetic demon in training tries to take away human rights, they are literally enslaving all of your children and grandchildren.

You never let them. Any time any thing happens to you, it means the Universe/God/Source is telling you, to take it to court, write about it, create a whole campaign of awareness about it, pass the purse, get it going and stop them from ever doing this to anyone again. Because is a responsibility to ensure your children and the future children are free.

If people had done this all along, we wouldn't be in this mess.

We recently bought a Toyota Prius only to discover we had to pay a $400 "hybrid tax" which supposedly is to make up for the lost gas taxes.
The shakedown is just about complete.
A couple more years all that will stand between the average citizen and Washington is the cardboard box you call home.

Addressing the particular issue of solar equipped homes being "freeloaders"

No way, No how

What these homeowners and businesses also! are doing is reducing the need to upsize power transmission lines, substations and construction of new generating stations by the connected utility.

This substantially benefits standard utility customers and stockholders by reducing capitol costs.

It is for the reason above that "excess" solar generation fed back into the utilities system is reimbursed. The reimbursement is far far below the per KW cost charged to a residential customer and is more apt to be at or below a level charged for a large industrial user. It only covers a partial amount of capitol costs saved by the utility.

The utilities who are really behind the agenda and propaganda on this want their cake and eat it too!

This is greed! Greed that comes at a penalty not only to the standard ratepayer but also those who have reduced their need for capitol improvements.

I equate this to punishing a child for good behavior because it makes the other less well behaved children look bad.

Even if I won millions, would only buy second hand vehicles. What I think is a good truck is a 1980's , pre computerized nightmare, extended cab, ie back seat so its family truck, 1/2 ton if possible, diesel. Because it runs on peanut oil, biofuels and is easier to convert into hybrid systems. If possible buy an extra beater to tinker with. A truck that isn't all scratched up with a few dents is hardly one you'd want to take out in the woods fishing or camping. Private sale, no extra taxes.

Basically what others have already said is correct, the are making
things so expensive folks are turning away and to keep revenue
high they must somehow still collect from those that no longer
wish to participate.

In KY they same thing is being discussed but instead of solar
its gasoline, you see since our gas prices have risen, many here,
myself included, have started budgeting our fuel usage to
the max, and i do mean insanely obsessive lol

To make a long story short since many of us have done this
they now claim they cannot fix the roads anymore and need
to introduce a little white box that counts the mileage you
drive then you pay a tax on each mile driven as well as a
fuel tax and income tax and school tax, property tax and
on and on and on, the old adage comes to mind, the
government never met a tax it didn't like.

The reality is this: you can no longer simply exist in this
world and not owe someone, somewhere something.

reply to post by liejunkie01

Well, this is a very (and I hate to feed into the divide and conquer 2-headed 1-Party labels) Liberal way of thinking.

That you didnt do anything on your own, everyone else helped to contribute on some level so you have to share or give back.

"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers are being penalised," he said.

This is supposed to be some kind of Republican or "conservative" group but its the exact same mindset behind Obama/Romney care, that people receive emergency room care for free while paying nothing into the system...

Conservative, Liberal, Republicrat, Demlican, its all blending together. I dont think they even know what they stand for anymore...

Unless the utilities were built using private money, my taxes already paid for its infrastructure and government subsidies. Why am I being charged again?

But if you read further into the article, ALEC's main goals seem to be about carbon, which appears to be another power grab disguised as a con job. Usually, its the coal miners which will be affected the most despite the fact that coal generates about 50% of the US' electricity.

The meeting will also focus on Obama's plan, announced last June, to use the EPA to limit greenhouse gas emissions from future and existing power plants.

"The EPA's forthcoming regulation of greenhouse gas emissions and specifically carbon emissions from power plants will be of incredible interest to states and membership so we are going to be focusing on that. Absolutely," Eick said. Power plants are the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions, accounting for about 40% last year.

The EPA last September proposed new standards for future power plants, and will tighten limits for existing power plants next June.

If carbon was really that "dangerous", wouldnt government just outlaw it without exception? Not sure I buy into the whole carbon debate when Al Gore types and banksters are busy setting up billion dollar carbon credit exchanges:

Carbon Trade Exchange.

Chicago Climate Exchange.