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1 Corinthians; The blueprints of the church (Index thread)

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posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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Among the writings of Paul, 1 Corinthians is the letter which teaches the church what it means to be a Christian community.
This was drawn to my attention by Hans Conzellman.
One of the remarks in his commentary is that “The criterion of conduct is found in the nature of the community”.
Though he makes this observation about one verse (ch6 v1), it seems to me that the same thought holds good for most of the letter.
At the beginning of the letter, Paul describes the nature of the church, and that provides the criterion for what he later says about the church’s conduct.
One follows on from the other.

Defining the church- ch1 vv1-9

So this first thread is about the nature of the church.
We learn from Paul that the church is a “gathered assembly”, an EKKLESIA.
The church is a gathered assembly of people who have been called by God.
The church is a gathered assembly of people called to be saints.
The church is a gathered assembly of people called into fellowship with Christ.
The church is a gathered assembly of people waiting in faith for the “Day” when Christ will be “revealed” to the world at large.

The calling and the cross- ch1 vv17-25

Then we move on to considering the “calling” of the church, and its implications.
In this passage, the message is that our calling comes through the event of the Cross, in a way which conflicts absolutely with the world’s understanding of wisdom and power.
That is because our calling comes from God, and not from the world.

The calling and the Spirit- ch2 vv6-13

For exactly that reason, we cannot understand the message of the Cross by human wisdom alone.
Our understanding of the Cross comes only by the agency of the Spirit of God.
Therefore the calling of the church is something which only becomes possible by the Spirit.

The calling and the teachers- ch3 vv5-15

If our calling cannot come by human wisdom, but only by the agency of the Spirit, that puts human teaching in its place.
Human leaders are nothing more than subordinates, because they are not the source of our calling.
Our calling comes only from God.

The saint and his holiness- ch6 vv9-20

The next theme follows through the implications of the claim that believers are “called to be saints”.
In other words, they have been set apart as God’s property.
Therefore they need to keep themselves detached from everything that is not God.
So the individual saint needs to keep himself clear from the behaviour which typifies the world.
Since his calling has called him away from the world, the separation needs to be maintained.

The saints and the sinner- ch5

For the same reason, the church as a body needs to be vigilant in dealing with relapsing members, in order to guard against the danger of corruption.
Since their calling has called them away from the world, as a body, the separation needs to be maintained.

The saints and the idols- ch10 vv14-28

Their separation from the world will necessarily including separating themselves from the gods worshipped by the world.
They must avoid idolatry and even the appearance of idolatry.

The fellowship and the common Spirit- ch3 vv16-17

If they are called into fellowship with Christ, they are also called into fellowship with each other.
A large group of people cannot come close to a central figure, without at the same time moving closer to one another.
As a community, the church is the location of the Holy Spirit, and that is why breaking the unity of the church is an offence against God.

The fellowship and the gifts of the Spirit – ch12

The Holy Spirit is also the source of their ability to serve one another.

The fellowship and the Supper- ch11 vv17-28

The Lord’s Supper, when properly understood, is a sacrament of unity.
The believers who meet in the Supper are in fellowship with Christ and in fellowship with one another, and the event should be an expression of both kinds of fellowship.
They are the body of Christ, and the body of Christ should not be meeting in disunity.
They need to be celebrating the Supper as the act that brings them all together

The fellowship and its love- ch13

Paul has already told us that the church is unified by its fellowship with Christ and unified by the presence of the Spirit.
Their love is the effect and expression of that unity.

The waiting and the resurrection- ch15

Finally, the church was defined as waiting for the Day when Christ is revealed to the world.
This expectation carries with it a promise of the resurrection of believers.
Paul explains how assurance of the resurrection is necessarily included in the faith of the gospel by which they were first called, and how the one cannot stand without the other.

A church following the blueprints

Unfortunately, it isn’t possible to give a concrete example of any one Christian community, among those calling themselves “churches”, living up to everything Paul is describing in this letter.
And the world-wide Church as a whole certainly does not do so.

But you might like to stop for a while and reflect on what such a church would look like.

Now, what can we do about that?




posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:43 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


You could try to set up your on church based on these things and discover what everyone else has.....!

A little wisdom required here.... and the fact of ATS as the basis for your answers... !!!!!!



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by MadMax9
 

One of the lessons of church history is that isolated action gets nowhere.
It would need to be a co-operative effort.
Even then, it could not be human effort alone.
Nothing could happen without close contact with Christ and the Holy Spirit (and that close contact is probably what has been missing).




edit on 9-12-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 07:09 PM
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DISRAELI
reply to post by MadMax9
 

One of the lessons of church history is that isolated action gets nowhere.
It would need to be a co-operative effort.
Even then, it could not be human effort alone.
Nothing could happen without close contact with Christ and the Holy Spirit (and that close contact is probably what has been missing).


edit on 9-12-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)


You cannot teach what does not want to know and have to wait until it is ready. Normally the pushing only increases stubbornness to do the opposite. Humanity are like teenagers who rebel and will not listen and since god is wise god waits for the time when the teenagers have been thru enough to finally listen.




posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 07:17 PM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 

Yes, the initiative does need to come from God, but God would know how to do it.
(It is just possible, who knows, that this thread is a tiny cog in his own plans).



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 




Unfortunately, it isn’t possible to give a concrete example of any one Christian community, among those calling themselves “churches”, living up to everything Paul is describing in this letter.
And the world-wide Church as a whole certainly does not do so.

But you might like to stop for a while and reflect on what such a church would look like.


Am I trying to reflect on what an early church (1st cen AD) would look like (in Corinth or anywhere) or what a modern church following Paul's guidance would look like?



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


I like the post, keep it up.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 04:26 AM
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ABNARTY
Am I trying to reflect on what an early church (1st cen AD) would look like (in Corinth or anywhere) or what a modern church following Paul's guidance would look like?

The second, because it's really a preliminary to the next question I posed;

Having considered that contrast, what can we do about it?



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 11:31 AM
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DISRAELI
reply to post by LittleByLittle
 

Yes, the initiative does need to come from God, but God would know how to do it.
(It is just possible, who knows, that this thread is a tiny cog in his own plans).



It is a tiny cog
. When we plan a few days in advance god has to plan for eons.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 

Blessed is he who knows he is only a tiny cog.
The ones who think they're gear-levers and streering wheels, those are the ones who cause most of the trouble.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by 2WitnessesArrived
 

Thank you for the encouragement.
I've done the same kind of series on other themes in the past (such as Revelation), and will be continuing on other subjects.



posted on Dec, 10 2013 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by ABNARTY
 


OK. As far as I know the epistles were directed at specific groups, in specific locations, facing specific circumstances. Pep talks, get right talks, how-to talks, etc.

If a modern church were to follow these instructions, to start with would it not look a lot like a 1st century Christian assembly? Simply a gathering, congregation led, focusing on the message.

I imagine it would come across a lot less transactional than what is heard in many churches today. Perhaps there would be a much greater emphasis on responsibility, inclusion, and humility.

I would bet there would be a lot less focus on the extraneous so prevalent in your average modern congregation. Paul might even call it idolatry in a way.

What do we do about it? IDK. To make the adjustment would require a significant cultural and spiritual change many probably do not see as important. Just my two cents.



posted on Dec, 11 2013 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by ABNARTY
 

I certainly think there would be less division and less mutual hostility between groups and members, because this was what Paul was wanting to eliminate.
The role of single domineering leadership, which he saw as part of the problem, would be reduced, and life would be more about co-operation.

As I suggested to someone else, a closer relationship with Christ and the Holy Spirit would be key, and this could be sought.
This would be at the heart of a proper sense of being "called" by God into a new relationship.
This would encourage the detachment from the world demanded in some of the themes, and it would also encourage a closer relationship amongst the members.
As I observed, a group cannot move close to a central figure without moving closer to one another at the same time.



posted on Dec, 13 2013 @ 04:16 PM
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I certainly think there would be less division and less mutual hostility between groups and members, because this was what Paul was wanting to eliminate.

It is disappointing, for example, that there are still Catholics obsessed with treating non-Catholics as outsiders to the church, and unwilling to work with them in terms of mutual acceptance and co-operation.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 12:37 AM
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DISRAELI

I certainly think there would be less division and less mutual hostility between groups and members, because this was what Paul was wanting to eliminate.

It is disappointing, for example, that there are still Catholics obsessed with treating non-Catholics as outsiders to the church, and unwilling to work with them in terms of mutual acceptance and co-operation.


Paul believed in the Eucharist, he was a ministerial priest (Romans 15:16) who confected the Eucharist. His warnings to the early Church was not over hostility, it was do not fall away from what you have been taught by the Apostles.

Ecumenism doesn't work, "mutual acceptance" will never happen. why accept the heresies of those who have broken from the faith? Which of the heretics has it right? The "division" in Protestantism by the tens of thousands of sects, each one splitting over disagreeing with the other.

Our Lord established ONE faith, Roman Catholicism. One of the biggest reasons for the thousands of varying groups is the not of God Protestant heresy called Private Judgment. God did not give everyone the authority to interpret the Bible. It is so lame, Protestants have chosen another earthly authority, they turn to the Bible Alone, a Roman Catholic book while out of the other side of their mouth, they reject the faith, Roman Catholicism! Its insane.

Only God can bring disbelievers to the faith.

God is going to bring this about by the prophesied and Scriptural (Rev 6:15-17, 1 Cor 3:13) awakening, God is going to reveal to all the world, non-Christians too, THE faith and warn of the anti-Christ and his plans. Come be Catholic now. Or, begin to read Catholic writings, the Bible, best to read an older Catholic translation. Wonderful and to check the footnotes, the English translation of the Latin Vulgate, the first Bible www.drbo.org...), read the Catechism, the lives of the saints. Search subjects of faith with a preface ~ type in Catholic Apologetics.

Here is a question, where is the ministerial priesthood in Protestantism to offer the "continual sacrifice?" Big question. Our Lord explains in prophecy (private revelation) -an excerpt-. An ordained ministerial priest confects the Eucharist during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Eucharist is tops, from God, it is supernatural, believe. Remember for the "awakening." Remember this too, the anti-Christ is prophesied to attempt to abolish the Eucharist (abomination of desolation).

+ + +

Message to the Prayer Warriors of the Most Blessed Sacrament

September 3, 2006

Persona Christi (the Priest)


Given to the Third Person

"To all My little ones.


.... I ask all now this question: Can anyone give or minister to another what they do not have or possess? Absolutely not. Have all who profess to be Christians have the charism of the priesthood - 'persona Christi'? Absolutely not. The priesthood was established on Holy Thursday by Me, Jesus Christ, at the Last Supper. I, Jesus Christ, mandated to the twelve apostles, 'Do this in commemoration of Me' (Luke 22:19). Here, I instituted the Bread of Life known as the Eucharist, and the continual sacrifice; and also the new covenant priesthood. I stated, 'I have not come to destroy the prophets or the Law, but to fulfill them' (Matt 5:17). Only a priest could offer sacrifices in the Old Covenant.

It was only the Levites who could become priests (Heb 7:5). In the New Covenant, only the apostolic House of God can ordain priests under the authority of Rome. I, Jesus Christ, am the Eternal High Priest and victim to be offered (Heb 2:17; 3:1). I work in 'persona Christi.' The validly ordained priest here on earth is the vehicle I use to minister sanctifying grace to the flock and the validly ordained priest only can offer the continual sacrifice that is the Mass - where Calvary is represented to the Father in Heaven (which is the New Covenant Passover: 'Who eats My Body and drinks My Blood has everlasting life and will be raised up on the last day' (John 6:55) ). This is the Passover from sin and eternal death.

The early Church fathers (right after the apostles) strictly warned to be careful where you would receive the Bread of Life (the Eucharist). To make very certain the Church they were receiving in had a valid succession from the apostles, or the Bishop of Rome. I, Jesus Christ, am catholic (*universal) and reside in every tabernacle in every valid Catholic Church. I am honored and venerated and glorified there. Please come and be a part of the mystical Body of Christ while there is still time. For, if the continual sacrifice is ever abolished and the abomination of desolation set up (Dan 9:27), the world would end in a horror inconceivable to man.

Please here me in this.

God (All Three Persons)"


Yahoo Groups - Seers 2
message #15518


Romans 15:16
That I should be the MINISTER of Christ Jesus among the Gentiles; sanctifying the gospel of God, that the OBLATION (the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass) of the Gentiles may be made acceptable and sanctified in the Holy Ghost.



p.s. DISRAELI, I offered a rosary for your intention, the graces received are powerful AND anyone can pray the rosary, you do NOT have to be Catholic.



posted on Dec, 15 2013 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 

Since you get repetitive, I only need to repeat what I have already said elsewhere, namely that your own approach is a perfect example of everything Paul is complaining about in this letter.

" Let me point out that most of the first chapter of 1 Corinthians is a direct personal criticism of yourself- or it might as well be.
He complains that the church-members in Corinth are obsessed with quarrelling about the differences between their groups. He indicates that this is because they are not focussing on what really matters, namely the death of Christ on the Cross, which is what separates all of them from the unbelievers.
Well, that’s you, isn’t it? Exactly!
You are obsessed with quarrelling and nit-picking about differences between Catholic and Protestant and apparently incapable of raising your sights from the mud to contemplate the Cross, which is the essential mark of the Christian faith, the difference between Christian faith and unbelief, the subject of this passage, and the subject of this thread.
You are behaving exactly like the stupid quarrelsome people in Corinth.
You’re even using one of the same slogans! (“I belong to Peter”, v12).
So there you are, an entire chapter in the New Testament devoted to trying to explain to Colbe where Colbe is going wrong!
Is there any chance that you can stop quarrelling with fellow-Christians, just once, and focus on the more important conflict between God and the world?"

You need to stop listening to the voice of Satan, which is pushing you into conflict with other Christians, and begin listening instead to the Holy Spirit speaking through Paul in this letter.




edit on 15-12-2013 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



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