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Medical Beliefs System Discussion...

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posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:13 PM
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Hey guys!

I was participating in a fascinating adjacent sister thread and the premise was... www.abovetopsecret.com... Ah, check it out for yourself. Some seriously good stuff.


Unfortunately, we experienced some serious thread drift (Mucho apologies for my many contributions to that tendency
).

Anyhow, the original thread dealt with a sudden reemergence of 'diseases' that supposedly 'modern' 'medicine' had stomped out, but were alleged to be making a comeback to those rabid 'anti-inoculation' type parents were introducing due to their alleged negligent tendencies. etc.

Like I was saying, the conversation had drifted into a much larger framework, a much more open discussion about medicine, disease, treatments, etc.

With the Mods permission, I would like to continue that fascinating discussion something along the lines of

When Medical Belief Systems collide.

Hopefully we can drift as far afield as you need to support your contributions... and I wholeheartedly approve.

If it's about medicine, health, whatever you got... This is your thread.


edit on 9-12-2013 by golemina because: Typos stuff.





posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by golemina
 


If a pharmaceutical corporation discovered through it's research process that there was a blindingly simple and general cure for cancer what would they do with the information?

1. Publish.
2. Kill the project and seal the information.
3. Arrange for the research team to die in an accidental plane crash and for their facility to accidentally be burnt to the ground.

When there is literally 50+ billion $'s at stake, I'm going with 3. IMO, that is why Capitalism and healthcare are incompatible. I wish people would worry about the real conspiracies and not the chaff, like Chem-trails.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by golemina
 


I was talking to an interesting ATS, OneManArmy and he had stated:



I read info on "Pink Disease" and found it very interesting. Especially the link to a family history of "Pink Disease" and a genetic predisposition to autism.
I cannot really dispute your view, it is just a view. I can only attempt to dispute the evidence you provide that supports your view. But that hasnt been very forthcoming.
I agree that healthy diet and good sanitation dramatically reduces the dangers of disease, but it certainly doesnt prevent illness nor cure cancer. There are many causes of disease, both bacterial and viral, and even other pollutants like radioactivity and poisons. A good diet will not prevent a radioactive particle lodged in the lung from killing you.



There's only one problem OneManArmy, I don't subscribe to the 'disease model'.

I don't believe in virus or bacteria. I'm heavily influenced by Pasteur, on his deathbed, Gaston Naessens, an insanely brilliant researcher and inventor, etc.

So the model that I see happening is that 'pathogens' only appear where the body is weak, that all of the 'pathogens' are synergistic life forms that morph up and down some type of 'evolutionary' scale depending on the environment where they find themselves.

They are all the same 'pathogens'.

They don't make you sick, when you are sick, you make them.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by golemina
 


Lets begin with leeks curing cancer.

Are you suggesting that Wales is the most cancer free country on earth?

Also will a healthy diet of clean water and fine food help prevent the inhabitants of Chernobyl from having birth defects and cancers?

Can coal miners prevent black lung with a healthy diet?

That should kick the thread off nicely.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by golemina
 


So, you are so confident in this that you would get bitten by a rabid animal and not seek treatment?



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:31 PM
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InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by golemina
 


If a pharmaceutical corporation discovered through it's research process that there was a blindingly simple and general cure for cancer what would they do with the information?

1. Publish.
2. Kill the project and seal the information.
3. Arrange for the research team to die in an accidental plane crash and for their facility to accidentally be burnt to the ground.

When there is literally 50+ billion $'s at stake, I'm going with 3. IMO, that is why Capitalism and healthcare are incompatible. I wish people would worry about the real conspiracies and not the chaff, like Chem-trails.


The Alternative Medicine industry is worth around $15 billion a year in this country and around $115 billion a year globally. By your logic, Big Herb must also be killing off researchers who find non-herbal cures for diseases, right? BIG HERB ARE SUPPRESSING MAINSTREAM MEDICINE!!!one



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:32 PM
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InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by golemina
 


If a pharmaceutical corporation discovered through it's research process that there was a blindingly simple and general cure for cancer what would they do with the information?

1. Publish.
2. Kill the project and seal the information.
3. Arrange for the research team to die in an accidental plane crash and for their facility to accidentally be burnt to the ground.

When there is literally 50+ billion $'s at stake, I'm going with 3. IMO, that is why Capitalism and healthcare are incompatible. I wish people would worry about the real conspiracies and not the chaff, like Chem-trails.


Absolutely correct. I go with 3 also.

I wonder just how important vaccines and fluoride etc would be if their were no multy billion dollar profits involved!!



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:35 PM
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VoidHawk


I wonder just how important vaccines and fluoride etc would be if their were no multy billion dollar profits involved!!


Not much.


During the past fifty years, the number of pharmaceutical companies making vaccines has decreased dramatically, and those that still make vaccines have reduced resources to make new ones. Pharmaceutical companies are gradually abandoning vaccines because the research, development, testing, and manufacture of vaccines are expensive and because the market to sell vaccines is much smaller than the market for other drug products. Congressional action could assure both a steady supply of existing vaccines and the promise of vaccines for the future.

Congress has the power to protect vaccines, a product that is vital to the health of the United States and the rest of the world.

Pharmaceutical companies are businesses, not public health agencies; they are not obligated to make vaccines. Events during the past fifty years have made the manufacture of vaccines more expensive and their sale less profitable. What follows here are case studies of two important vaccines, one for polio and the other for influenza, and the factors that either encouraged or discouraged their production.


content.healthaffairs.org...



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by golemina
 


If a pharmaceutical corporation discovered through it's research process that there was a blindingly simple and general cure for cancer what would they do with the information?

1. Publish.
2. Kill the project and seal the information.
3. Arrange for the research team to die in an accidental plane crash and for their facility to accidentally be burnt to the ground.

When there is literally 50+ billion $'s at stake, I'm going with 3. IMO, that is why Capitalism and healthcare are incompatible. I wish people would worry about the real conspiracies and not the chaff, like Chem-trails.


Dude, you serious can't publish...

You throw some sand into this well lubed money printing machine that is 'modern' 'medicine' and they will Kevin Trudeau your ass!



The money thing... it gets into every area... it strangles any real progress of knowledge.

It's the dynamics of group consensus.

All the REAL discussions I have had with university Academics... they are OFF THE RECORD baby!

That duality of the real belief vs. the official public belief...

Even though I am the biggest heretic walking... I sympathize!

(Chemtrails... well leave that... and less someone wants to link it in via a medical thing. Just say Ah!!!!)




posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:42 PM
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golemina


So the model that I see happening is that 'pathogens' only appear where the body is weak, that all of the 'pathogens' are synergistic life forms that morph up and down some type of 'evolutionary' scale depending on the environment where they find themselves.

They are all the same 'pathogens'.

They don't make you sick, when you are sick, you make them.


I cannot accept that the human body can make "synergistic life forms" spontaneously out of nowhere based on the health of the human. I can accept that "symbiotic life forms" can flourish when they find a suitable host and conditions conducive to reproduction. I think that the "pathogens" are the by products of this reproduction, and also "bacterial and viral" poo.
Life forms do not just manifest themselves without a DNA "program". Its prevalent in all life. Without it life can not exist.
Im pretty sure that during the days of Pasteur they didnt have electron microscopes, and so were very limited on their understanding of cellular life. We have come so far since Pasteur. Not to take anything away from his genius given the tools he worked with.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:45 PM
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golemina

(Chemtrails... well leave that... and less someone wants to link it in via a medical thing. Just say Ah!!!!)



There are links, not strictly whats called "chemtrails" but definitely bacteria and viruses and chemicals sprayed from both planes and from ships and from the tops of buildings, but we will get to that I promise.
But that would require the existence of viruses and bacteria first.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:49 PM
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OneManArmy
reply to post by golemina
 


Lets begin with leeks curing cancer.

Are you suggesting that Wales is the most cancer free country on earth?

Also will a healthy diet of clean water and fine food help prevent the inhabitants of Chernobyl from having birth defects and cancers?

Can coal miners prevent black lung with a healthy diet?

That should kick the thread off nicely.




Bravo OneManArmy!

Leaks and cancer? Really? Gonna check that out.

Wales is a really old country, the Welsh a really old people.

Miners, etc.

The probably with 'black lung' is an environmental one. The lungs are fairly good are cycling out debris, but if you are doing it in industrial doses... That can't BE good!

Same thing with radioactivity exposure... ie Chernobyl.

Curious thing about radioactivity, I believe what Tesla thought about it. That the radioactivity is the result of harmonics from the Ether.

Bottom line is we shouldn't be using those elements and concentrating them the way we do... The radiation wreaks some serious havoc with biological entities at a whole lot of different levels.

So, radioactivity is also an environmental factor.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:51 PM
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ketsuko
reply to post by golemina
 


So, you are so confident in this that you would get bitten by a rabid animal and not seek treatment?


(gulp) Yeah!

But I suddenly feel a compelling urge to look into it.

And wash my hands!
edit on 9-12-2013 by golemina because: Humorous cmt.




posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by GetHyped
 





By your logic, Big Herb must also be killing off researchers who find non-herbal cures for diseases, right? BIG HERB ARE SUPPRESSING MAINSTREAM MEDICINE!!!one


Big herb? That's amusing, thx. As for disease "cures" provided by big pharma, I'm interested in hearing about those. It's my understanding that they are not looking for cures, just treatments. In some cases treatments that have other treatable side-effects. I digress, you deserve the opportunity to cite some of the disease cures. The thread would benefit from that, I think.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by GetHyped
 


Big herb? That's amusing, thx. As for disease "cures" provided by big pharma, I'm interested in hearing about those. It's my understanding that they are not looking for cures, just treatments. In some cases treatments that have other treatable side-effects. I digress, you deserve the opportunity to cite some of the disease cures. The thread would benefit from that, I think.


Big pharma? That's amusing, thx. As for disease "cures" provided by big herb, I'm interested in hearing about those. It's my understanding that they are not looking for cures, just treatments. In some cases treatments that have other treatable side-effects. I digress, you deserve the opportunity to cite some of the disease cures. The thread would benefit from that, I think.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 05:57 PM
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OneManArmy

golemina

(Chemtrails... well leave that... and less someone wants to link it in via a medical thing. Just say Ah!!!!)



There are links, not strictly whats called "chemtrails" but definitely bacteria and viruses and chemicals sprayed from both planes and from ships and from the tops of buildings, but we will get to that I promise.
But that would require the existence of viruses and bacteria first.


Dude, I'm seriously flexible...

Release the hounds! Ahhh... the viruses and bacteria...




posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 06:03 PM
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golemina

OneManArmy
reply to post by golemina
 


Lets begin with leeks curing cancer.

Are you suggesting that Wales is the most cancer free country on earth?

Also will a healthy diet of clean water and fine food help prevent the inhabitants of Chernobyl from having birth defects and cancers?

Can coal miners prevent black lung with a healthy diet?

That should kick the thread off nicely.




Bravo OneManArmy!

Leaks and cancer? Really? Gonna check that out.

Wales is a really old country, the Welsh a really old people.

Miners, etc.

The probably with 'black lung' is an environmental one. The lungs are fairly good are cycling out debris, but if you are doing it in industrial doses... That can't BE good!

Same thing with radioactivity exposure... ie Chernobyl.

Curious thing about radioactivity, I believe what Tesla thought about it. That the radioactivity is the result of harmonics from the Ether.

Bottom line is we shouldn't be using those elements and concentrating them the way we do... The radiation wreaks some serious havoc with biological entities at a whole lot of different levels.

So, radioactivity is also an environmental factor.


Of course black lung is environmental, but I thought your hypothesis was that regardless of environment, a good clean water supply and good diet keeps a person healthy.

"Radio"activity is the emission of radio waves, they are emitted by the breakdown of a radioactive material like plutonium or uranium. Hence the materials having a "halflife" and limited lifespan.
Im in no way questioning the theories of Tesla, he is yet another genius that the world owes a great deal.
I doubt we would be having this conversation right now had it not been for him. I wouldnt mind reading his theories of which you speak. Im a musician(producer) and am very interested in the science of "waves". I will most definitely learn something from it. Im also interested in finding out more about Teslas take on the "ether" which materialistic science has discarded.
And lets not forget the unleashing of billions of radioactive particles into the atmosphere during the cold war, their existence is inescapable. Especially with Fukushima unleashing its fury on the world right now. But hey, you said good food and water and all that good stuff.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 06:08 PM
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GetHyped

InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by GetHyped
 


Big herb? That's amusing, thx. As for disease "cures" provided by big pharma, I'm interested in hearing about those. It's my understanding that they are not looking for cures, just treatments. In some cases treatments that have other treatable side-effects. I digress, you deserve the opportunity to cite some of the disease cures. The thread would benefit from that, I think.


Big pharma? That's amusing, thx. As for disease "cures" provided by big herb, I'm interested in hearing about those. It's my understanding that they are not looking for cures, just treatments. In some cases treatments that have other treatable side-effects. I digress, you deserve the opportunity to cite some of the disease cures. The thread would benefit from that, I think.


I think the same can be said for much of "conventional" medicine too.
Isnt conventional medicine just "natural" medicine that works, refined and put into a pill.
We still suffer the common cold, just treat the symptoms with paracetamol to ease the headaches caused by congestion of the sinuses and menthol or lemon to clear the sinuses.



posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 06:10 PM
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OneManArmy

golemina


So the model that I see happening is that 'pathogens' only appear where the body is weak, that all of the 'pathogens' are synergistic life forms that morph up and down some type of 'evolutionary' scale depending on the environment where they find themselves.

They are all the same 'pathogens'.

They don't make you sick, when you are sick, you make them.


I cannot accept that the human body can make "synergistic life forms" spontaneously out of nowhere based on the health of the human. I can accept that "symbiotic life forms" can flourish when they find a suitable host and conditions conducive to reproduction. I think that the "pathogens" are the by products of this reproduction, and also "bacterial and viral" poo.
Life forms do not just manifest themselves without a DNA "program". Its prevalent in all life. Without it life can not exist.
Im pretty sure that during the days of Pasteur they didnt have electron microscopes, and so were very limited on their understanding of cellular life. We have come so far since Pasteur. Not to take anything away from his genius given the tools he worked with.


Look at Gaston Naessens light microscopes.

He has the magnification of an electron microscope, but his samples are ALL live! Further, they seem to cause the 'microbes' to fluoresce.

If you have ever used a good microscope and you were looking at something like a paramecium. If you were looking quite closely at it's side you would seem large numbers of invisible collisions with it's sides.

My profs all said that that was 'Brownian motion', but of course the scale is ALL wrong, those are Gaston Naessens' 'somatids'. Bumping said paramecium.

Of course, 'REAL' doctors won't look at it...

Can't upset the DOGMA applecart!



I warn you... It's a rabbit hole!




posted on Dec, 9 2013 @ 06:11 PM
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golemina

OneManArmy

golemina

(Chemtrails... well leave that... and less someone wants to link it in via a medical thing. Just say Ah!!!!)



There are links, not strictly whats called "chemtrails" but definitely bacteria and viruses and chemicals sprayed from both planes and from ships and from the tops of buildings, but we will get to that I promise.
But that would require the existence of viruses and bacteria first.


Dude, I'm seriously flexible...

Release the hounds! Ahhh... the viruses and bacteria...



All in good time, you must acknowledge the existence of viruses and bacteria first.



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