Escape from Christian Fundamentalism - the Kids Who Flee Abusive, Isolated Christian Homes

reply to post by wildtimes


get in the battle to stop them? I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else how to raise their kids. I am in the battle of stopping the prison system that is the public schools. that is my battle.

how many home school kids have been on killing sprees? what is the crime rate for home school kids?

boymonkey74
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

Love to know where I mentioned it in this thread...

"Escape from Christian Fundamentalism - the Kids Who Flee Abusive, Isolated Christian Homes"

I can read... and we don't need no speeches from Christopher Hitchens... he is not certified or educated on the matter.

find your own words, find it!

reply to post by SisyphusRide


Goes to show you didn't even bother to watch the video.
He is bang on right, way more qualified then any of us on ATS.
Hitch you are missed by many.

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by wildtimes

 

get in the battle to stop them? I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone else how to raise their kids. I am in the battle of stopping the prison system that is the public schools. that is my battle.

how many home school kids have been on killing sprees? what is the crime rate for home school kids?

I agree,

it's best not to let the state raise kids... because the Law will if the parents do not!

boymonkey74
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

Goes to show you didn't even bother to watch the video.
He is bang on right, way more qualified then any of us on ATS.
Hitch you are missed by many.

edit on 9-12-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

Journalism is not Social or Public service... or even closely related to the topic.

reply to post by SisyphusRide


Another wonderfully incorrect statement...do you do it on purpose?.

wildtimes
reply to post by boymonkey74

 

Any religious teaching to kids should include as many as possible, then the Child can make up his/her own mind.

Exactly.
It's not much different than teaching geography....a kid can learn about ALL the places in the world, and choose what sort of climate/location they'd like to live in. The Desert? The Mountains? Seaside? Jungle? Big City? Small town? China? Singapore? Australia? Afghanistan?

It is up to the individual to decide these things.

and maybe coc aine, heroin, crack. meth....or maybe rape, murder, theft.....let all the kids decide if these things are for them or not too.....or we could be parents and steer them in the best way we know how. To raise them to be good men and women according to each individual parent. You see....religion (my belief in God) is like my belief in the sky being blue. It is no different to me. Should I also not teach my kids that the sky is blue or why it is blue? If you answer that I should.....then I also should teach them about the truth I know about God. There is no difference for me.

edit on 12/9/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

UxoriousMagnus
reply to post by Klassified

 

and who gets to decide which parents are worthy and which parents are not?.....you?

I wouldn't be so presumptuous, as to assume I'm a person who should be judging other parents. I made plenty of mistakes. Nor am I a fan of the state telling people how to raise their children.

I can however, judge actions, and I know abuse when I see it, and hear about it. And the acts of some of these parents are despicable, and beyond Unconscionable.

The truth about God...that's an interesting concept, everyone claims to have it, their version of it, and claims the right to indoctrinate their children with what they KNOW. I'm sorry but having had those type of parents, I'm gonna call Bull#. None of you know nor do I the 'truth' of if there is even a god at all. While we might hope there is a father figure, mother figure, what have you, no one KNOWS. It's what you BELIEVE. There is a HUGE FREAKING difference between the two. And your belief is not yours to inflict on others as absolute truth. Especially children.

But then, can't convince those who are so sure they have the 'truth' of that. They like feeling superior, sure, comforted that they are in the 'know it all' crowd and they will be rewarded for their adherence to a book, religion, cult, etc.

While I agree every adult has the right to chose their belief system for themselves, I do not at all in any way agree children should be told 1 way is the absolute truth and forced without exposure to freedom of choice to follow it.

Its not just religion based home school. I attended private schools my entire life and the most scary and abusive one was Catholic grade school. I mean, back in the day they didnt like my kind there anyway, but hoo-boy there were some pretty damned twisted lessons. What these jokers did was well beyond corporal punishment as well. Getting whapped for everything isnt punishment, it just makes a kid either mean or skittish.

In my opinion, fundamentalism isnt bad in itself. I think fundies get confused with zealots and zealots are where you get into the freakish stuff. I home school my kids and am unapologetic. Particularly unapologetic to the morons who claim they cant be socialized and all of the other weird things people make up. I spend large on activities and sports, along with thousands a year for REAL curriculum. I once tried to get involved with a cooperative of home schoolers. Most had no real schooling themselves, much less a degree. The religious home schoolers ran the gamut from decent folks instilling values through religious curriculum to whacked out nutjobs. Still, I didnt see the level of utterly accepted organized sickness I encountered in parochial school in the early 70's.

I know there is a topic for this thread, but due to all the off topic comments and bickering, it's not easy to see it.

You are responsible for your own posts.

We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

Enough!!!!!

wildtimes
reply to post by Deetermined

 

Abuse may lead to mental illness in others, but it doesn't start with fundamentalism. It starts with mental illness.

Again, tell it to the survivors. An abusive Fundamentalist upbringing CAUSES MENTAL ILLNESS and NEUROSIS.

If a young child is beaten by "Fundamentalist parents" - and at the same time indoctrinated to believe that they will go to hell if they don't 'agree' with their parents - they WILL BE MENTALLY ILL.

And those who are drawn to "Fundamentalism", well, they already have either been indoctrinated from early childhood, or they were 'mental' to begin with.

Do you honestly not see how family systems work in cycles? There are HUNDREDS of stories on the web about people who were reared this way, and became abusive parents themselves. It's NOT HEALTHY.

edit on 12/9/13 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

Unfortunately WT...we are hearing a lot of standard blame shifting...it's an apparent strategy employed by individuals who themselves were victims - became normalised to environment, and continue the cycle of abuse...You're absolutely correct...abuse is abuse...but the responsibility needs to be taken...another recent thread has asked whether they could sue the church for mental abuse...I would seriously wonder how these good christian husbands or wives would react if they were being 'abused' in the workplace, as per Bullying and Vilification laws...the shoe would be on the other foot...
These children were ABUSED, plain and simple...and we are seeing the standard practice of so-called Men of God being moved to different locations, retired or just plain defended to the hilt by the Holy Roman Empirical church...the standard response is...it was the individual...lame, really really lame...on a smaller scale with this thread of Yours, we are seeing EXACTLY the same M.O. being employed to justify psychological abuse...

Å99

reply to post by wildtimes


I agree whole-heartedly. Most churches put a sugar coat on the Gospel and completely ignore it's true message. Jesus taught to forgive your neighbor(That translates to anybody that sins against you) of all there debts and transgressions against you. Never once does He say to harm anyone in anyway.
Do unto others as you would have them to unto you!

Hillbilly123069
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I agree whole-heartedly. Most churches put a sugar coat on the Gospel and completely ignore it's true message. Jesus taught to forgive your neighbor(That translates to anybody that sins against you) of all there debts and transgressions against you. Never once does He say to harm anyone in anyway.
Do unto others as you would have them to unto you!

Fundamentalism though, has sin as its 'God-given' excuse to perpetrate without personal responsibility...errr because it's God-given...see how that works?!...it's called shifting of responsibility...'it's not me that says it...it's God'...

Do unto others only works if you don't buy into the 'it never harmed me - so it's ok for you' psychology...that is how it is justified in the cycle that makes it continue...

Å99

reply to post by akushla99


Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, aka treat the way you want treated, has universal application in any situation with anyone. Or did I take that wrong?
There will be little or no justice in this life, with exception to those chaste. At least not until Judgement Day.
I can understand a loot of peoples caution with religion. There were 12 disciple,aka 12 witnesses to the life of Jesus. Only 4 accounts published in the KJV Holy Bible. This is on roman Emperor Constantine from around 300 a.d. He had a 'vision' of the Cross on the battlefield and the roman empire adopted the Christian faith over it.I keep in mind that it is human nature for those in power not to want to surrender it in any situation. He and a few clerics chose what out of all the scriptures went into the Bible. There are other Books of the Gospel out there online. Thomas, Peter, etc. Yes we didn't get the whole truth. We got what men wanted us to read. Research it. You will not find anything contradictory in the words of Jesus.

Hillbilly123069
reply to post by akushla99

 

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, aka treat the way you want treated, has universal application in any situation with anyone. Or did I take that wrong?
There will be little or no justice in this life, with exception to those chaste. At least not until Judgement Day.
I can understand a loot of peoples caution with religion. There were 12 disciple,aka 12 witnesses to the life of Jesus. Only 4 accounts published in the KJV Holy Bible. This is on roman Emperor Constantine from around 300 a.d. He had a 'vision' of the Cross on the battlefield and the roman empire adopted the Christian faith over it.I keep in mind that it is human nature for those in power not to want to surrender it in any situation. He and a few clerics chose what out of all the scriptures went into the Bible. There are other Books of the Gospel out there online. Thomas, Peter, etc. Yes we didn't get the whole truth. We got what men wanted us to read. Research it. You will not find anything contradictory in the words of Jesus.

edit on 10-12-2013 by Hillbilly123069 because: (no reason given)

So (and I'm not disagreeing with you per se)...what is the situation where victim-becomes-perp, in a kind of sado-masochistic sense? This is essentially how this cycle keeps revolving...the 'do unto others' is still fulfilled, but the abuse continues because it has become an accepted psychology that is mandated through the process of victim-becomes-perp. This is the essence of the OP...Abuse, psychological abuse...
This OP is not about Jesus...it is about psychological abuse...and cannot be explained away, in a diversionary sense, by talking about the bible, or Jesus...it is abuse, plain and simple...having no recognition of this is legitimising institutional abuse at a grand level, which we are seeing being played out around the world, right down to - into the homes of fundamentalists, who will, without batting an eyelid, tell you, you are a sinner and going to hell...all the while subjecting thier children to psychological abuse...this should not be very hard to understand.

Å99

boymonkey74
One day people will wake up and see this for what it is abuse..lucky those kids have grown up and left their parents.
It is sad and I hope the very religious read this and think "Is it worth risking the love of my son/daughter by forcing my ideas (nope not yours some other mans idea of god, no original thought here) onto them.
Good for the kids and shame on the parents.
S&F.

You're not distinguishing here adequately, between fundamentalist zealotry, and what Jesus, as the personification of the love of God, intended, and that's not fair.

"Churchianity" in particular, American, evangelical, "Christian" conservative, fundamentalism, of the "you're going to hell" (if you don't accept this doctrine in such and such a way) variety, must transform, everyone or most everyone knows that.

To then take their ignorance (the fundies) and try to wield it as an axe against "Christianity" is well, very painful, both for the Christian and the axe wielder.

We must stamp out ALL hatred and bigotry, and ignorance, but that doesn't mean throwing out the baby with the bathwater in the name of "righteousness".

This seething contempt for ANYTHING "religious" is very troubling, and to a large degree it's based in ignorance and hatred and bigotry itself, just the flip side.

Jesus held up LOVE as the standard, and by it's very nature it's transformative and civilizing.

It's so hurtful to see one ignorance, replaced with another, that's not the "business" of God and of God's love.

If there's a devil, he loves it when large swaths of Christendom screw up the transmission of the love of God in Jesus Christ, because it feeds the fire and the axe wielding by snarling and ferocious anti-Christians who feel justifed in their hatred of something of which they have no knowledge or understanding, because that way it's ignorance, hatred and intolerance on both sides - hell of a way to guard and defend against the truth at the very heart of that which Christianity is supposed to mean and signify for the world, which is a great light of truth, life, and love of which we had no prior understanding or awareness, if it had not been communicated, both in the words and the deeds, of an absolute master and the most beautiful and extraordinary human being in all of human history as a type of human historical crossroads (and passover) unto himself. (sorry for the run on sentence and excessive commas)

Don't take it out on the heart of Christianity, who is Jesus Christ himself, don't do the devil's business on the flip side of the wrong coin, please for the love of God and people..?!


Best Regards,

NAM aka Bob
In Christ.

boymonkey74
reply to post by SisyphusRide

 

Goes to show you didn't even bother to watch the video.
He is bang on right, way more qualified then any of us on ATS.
Hitch you are missed by many.

May God rest his soul.

We homeschooled until 5th grade.

The reason we homeschooled ... we lived in Alabama and the public schools were sucky. They were behind academically AND they still paddled in the schools. Also, there were many racists in the schools and our daughter is hispanic. We absolutely were NOT going to use the fundamentalist private schools. Not a chance. So we decided to homeschool until we could move out of the area. It worked well. Our daughter is now off to college and is perfectly adjusted.

reply to post by FlyersFan


It's terrible to think those places still thrive in the heartland...