The Exodus Telltale

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op, may i ask why you have the noah guy as your avatar?
oh, lookie there, noAH. isn't that interesting. there's a reason i'm asking, so your answer would be useful to this conversation

Yes, and my "name" here is the oldest known name of the Sumerian proto-Noah, or Utnapishtim, you can read about in the Epic of Gilgamesh. In Norse mythology we call him Heimdall, son of nine mothers (nine maternal generations between Adam and Noah) guarding the rainbow-bridge between the humans and the gods, being and father of all humans etc.

pharaoh ahmose had been one of the pharaohs who seized power from the hyksos pharaohs. so the ordering of the killing of the hyksos first born, makes more sense to me now.

Utnapisjtim

undo
op, may i ask why you have the noah guy as your avatar?
oh, lookie there, noAH. isn't that interesting. there's a reason i'm asking, so your answer would be useful to this conversation

Yes, and my "name" here is the oldest known name of the Sumerian proto-Noah, or Utnapishtim, you can read about in the Epic of Gilgamesh. In Norse mythology we call him Heimdall, son of nine mothers (nine maternal generations between Adam and Noah) guarding the rainbow-bridge between the humans and the gods, being and father of all humans etc.

isn't it obvious from my question that i recognized him as being the noah guy? lol well the sumerian version of the noah guy. i still can't get over the fact that noah was named after Ea. that pretty much proves the akkadian flood account in the enuma elish errr no, the epic of gilgamesh, i do believe, that says Enki-Ea warned utnapisjtim of the coming flood. i have a whole theory about that, where the old testament is a mixture of jehovahs, with enlil being given the title that wasn't his in the first place. so sometimes you see enki-jehovah == saving of noah, creation of humans, confusing languages at babel, and sometimes you see enlil as jehovah, decreeing the downgrading of human dna, decreeing the flood, wiping out hundreds of thousands of israelites in the desert, frying sodom and gomorrah and so on.

2 different jehovahs, one of which wasn't really jehovah, just a usurper of the title.

Shiloh7
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

If they lived in Goshen in great numbers, again where is the archaelogical evidence

Egypt is littered with ruined cities, especially in the Nile Delta where Gosen was cituated. ארץ גושן or Eretz Gošen is a word of unknown semantic- or lexical meaning. It may simply mean 'cultivated land' since it may be related to an Arab word meaning "to labor" or "to cultivate". It may also simply mean "living quarters of the labors".

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Utnapisjtim

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Utnapisjtim

Logarock
Yes or just scrap the whole story.

to kill of a generation of Egyptians as revenge for the Egyptians killing off the Israeli first-borns. One surviving such was Moses himself.

wow that's some twisted up history you got there

Exodus 1 explains how the Pharaoh orders all Israeli first-born sons killed. Then Ex. 2 explains how Moses manages to survive since his parents place him in a woven float and sends him into the river at a place where the Egyptian high-society women bathed. Thinking the child was a reborn Osiris, Moses was saved and brought up as an Egyptian prince. Ex. 11 explains Moses' revenge, his tenth horn, divicing a plan that kills off all Egyptian first-born sons. Now what is twisted up here? Appart from the whole story being twisted in the first place that is.…

oh yeahhhhhhh, i forgot all about that!! i gotta re-read it. it's little details like that that help flesh out the story but are sometimes overlooked or forgotten.

The Egyptians had the comparatively easy task of killing newborns. They could have subjected the Hebrew women to inspections to see who was carrying a child.

The Hebrews on the other hand would have had to ascertain the status of older children and even adults throughout the entire country much of which they were unfamiliar with. This also included anyone that was in prison, as pointed out in the story as well as all the firstborn of cattle. As you can see this would have been so far out of the scope of the Hebrews to carry out as to be physically impossible.

reply to post by Logarock


Like I said, the old Egyptian religion demanded all first-borns to be gathered at certain times, since they were the "children of the gods". And who would serve the food at such gatherings if not slaves? You see similar systems among the Hebrews. Cain was the first-born Son of God and being the child of Adam, which means 'Man', he was also the Son of Man. Hard to swallow and admit perhaps, but very much true.

reply to post by Logarock


oh you're preaching to the choir about that.
my position is, that the biblical account is true as it can be, under the circumstances and that it is a result of word variants, cultural variants + thousands of years, that has confused it all.
i think the hebrews/israelites/jews, were as much victims of the events described as the egyptians were.

see i have this theory that the guy who owns the planet, like a piece of real estate, really hates humans. if you understand the meaning of satan, et.al, the accuser, this starts to make sense. but there are rules he must follow as a member of the divine council. he demanded that enki come up with a solution for the lack of manpower and so enki created humans, who were former elohim copies, who had been modified to copy themselves via procreation so enlil would have an endless supply of workers.

enlil was like, "noo, they will eat of the tree of life and live forever". procreative eternal beings would over popuate the planet and the universe in a few thousand years, so he went to the council and demanded enki be forced to cut off human beings from eternal regeneration. in effect, our dna was nerfed. enki created humans, so he's been trying to protect us for who knows how many years, from being totally annihilated.

who is he accusing? human beings, that's who. reading the stories of the rivalry between enki and enlil brings the whole thing into clarity.

Utnapisjtim
reply to post by Logarock

 

Like I said, the old Egyptian religion demanded all first-borns to be gathered at certain times, since they were the "children of the gods". You see similar systems among the Hebrews. Cain was the first-born Son of God and being the child of Adam, which means 'Man', he was also the Son of Man. Hard to swallow and admit perhaps, but very much true.

Hard to swallow. Yes when you consider that the Hebrews didn't have men under arms enough to pull this off over the whole nation. The Egyptian army hadn't been destroyed yet and any such forced mass assassination attempt would have been an immediate call to arms. In fact its proof that there was no mass murder of Egyptians at the hands of the Hebrews.

And did they break into the prisons and ascertain who were first born? And the cattle, did they ascertain all the cattle left in Egypt and find out who were the firstborn cattle?

undo
reply to post by Logarock

 

who is he accusing? human beings, that's who. reading the stories of the rivalry between enki and enlil brings the whole thing into clarity.

The prophets, even Christ accused the people.

Logarock

undo
reply to post by Logarock

 

who is he accusing? human beings, that's who. reading the stories of the rivalry between enki and enlil brings the whole thing into clarity.

The prophets, even Christ accused the people.

what does satan mean?
it means the accuser. was christ accusing the people or was he accusing the temple of set?
if the temple of set, then he was accusing the people who were followers of the accuser of all humankind.
(enlil-ites)
i suppose you could call that accusing, but i'd call it defending.

reply to post by Logarock


In order to kill 1000 Egyptian firstborns you'd need a festival of some sort, let's say one where a sacrificial meal of firstborn cattle was central-- and one cook with a teaspoon of ricin or similar. You can make quite a bit of poison from a just a few pounds of the right plants.

Why do you think it was so important that the Hebrews had to be on a strict diet of unleavened bread and wine while "the Angel of Death" moved through Egypt?

any belief system that claims women are inferior species, that your children should be taken outside and stoned to death and so on, it's a system that hates at least half of the world's population and isn't it interesting that the half it hates is the half that makes more humans (women)

enlil = moon god. extrapolate that. think think. use yer noggin

oh and here's some food for thought.
adam meant to show blood?? the part about showing blood
"in the face" was added. the in the face part was not part of the original translation.
who shows blood? helloooo, the half of the planet that makes more humans = female menustration.

that's not to say that there weren't male adam, of course there were. just some really important details are missing or interpreted on top that make the text seem like its saying things that it actually doesn't.

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Logarock

undo
reply to post by Logarock

 

who is he accusing? human beings, that's who. reading the stories of the rivalry between enki and enlil brings the whole thing into clarity.

The prophets, even Christ accused the people.

what does satan mean?
it means the accuser. was christ accusing the people or was he accusing the temple of set?
if the temple of set, then he was accusing the people who were followers of the accuser of all humankind.
(enlil-ites)
i suppose you could call that accusing, but i'd call it defending.

edit on 9-12-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

He accused the whole generation but dies for them. That's the difference in the accusational qualities of each. But He did accuse and pointed out that He represented the God that had ultimate and final authority, which wouldn't be good for most, to cast into hell and destroy the earth.

Logarock

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Logarock

undo
reply to post by Logarock

 

who is he accusing? human beings, that's who. reading the stories of the rivalry between enki and enlil brings the whole thing into clarity.

The prophets, even Christ accused the people.

what does satan mean?
it means the accuser. was christ accusing the people or was he accusing the temple of set?
if the temple of set, then he was accusing the people who were followers of the accuser of all humankind.
(enlil-ites)
i suppose you could call that accusing, but i'd call it defending.

edit on 9-12-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

He accused the whole generation but dies for them. That's the difference in the accusational qualities of each. But He did accuse and pointed out that He represented the God that had ultimate and final authority, which wouldn't be good for most, to cast into hell and destroy the earth.

well something is wrong with that picture because god is love. otherwise we get this

undo
any belief system that claims women are inferior species, that your children should be taken outside and stoned to death and so on, it's a system that hates at least half of the world's population and isn't it interesting that the half it hates is the half that makes more humans (women)

enlil = moon god. extrapolate that. think think. use yer noggin

There is nothing to think about. This is simply an attempt to displace attributes of God the father, that we don't like, onto these lesser gods. Thus its simply an attempt to misrepresent God to construct something more palatable for todays world.

I have heard the Sea of Reeds theory often. I personally don't believe it for these two reasons:

1. The entire Egyptian army drowned trying to chase them. Obviously that could not have happened in shallow water.

2. The bottom of the Sea would be muck. But the Israelites walked through and their wagons/carts/etc all made it through as well. Opening dams and draining water does not account for them walking across dry ground.

I believe God used natural events to aid the Israelites. Obviously I don't have specific answers. The Bible says the parting of the Red Sea took all night long by a strong East wind. Exodus 14:21. One of the most intriguing theories I have read is that a very large or even super volcano eruption in the same world region could account for most of the plagues.

undo

Logarock

undo

Logarock

undo
reply to post by Logarock

 

who is he accusing? human beings, that's who. reading the stories of the rivalry between enki and enlil brings the whole thing into clarity.

The prophets, even Christ accused the people.

what does satan mean?
it means the accuser. was christ accusing the people or was he accusing the temple of set?
if the temple of set, then he was accusing the people who were followers of the accuser of all humankind.
(enlil-ites)
i suppose you could call that accusing, but i'd call it defending.

edit on 9-12-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

He accused the whole generation but dies for them. That's the difference in the accusational qualities of each. But He did accuse and pointed out that He represented the God that had ultimate and final authority, which wouldn't be good for most, to cast into hell and destroy the earth.

well something is wrong with that picture because god is love. otherwise we get this

Getting back to the Exodus story, whos blood is represented on the Passover? Who killed all those not covered with the blood?

Logarock

undo
any belief system that claims women are inferior species, that your children should be taken outside and stoned to death and so on, it's a system that hates at least half of the world's population and isn't it interesting that the half it hates is the half that makes more humans (women)

enlil = moon god. extrapolate that. think think. use yer noggin

There is nothing to think about. This is simply an attempt to displace attributes of God the father, that we don't like, onto these lesser gods. Thus its simply an attempt to misrepresent God to construct something more palatable for todays world.

i use to think the same thing, then i started asking myself the really hard questions.

here we have 2 humans, adam and eve. they are supposedly naive and clueless and are told, don't eat from the tree of knowledge (adam KNEW his wife and she begat. the tree of knowledge is dna for procreation). they are put in the garden, with the supposedly trickest and most beautiful and powerful archangel ever created. they are outwitted, outsmarted, and totally tricked into eating from the tree of knowing (what you mean they are tricked into becoming procreative or maybe, they are tricked into having sex with each other? ).

THEN, they are blamed for it.

story is improperly interpreted.
it was more like this. enlil needed slaves. the text even indicates humans were created as servants
enki, who was a doctor of genetics, a life scientist, created humans from the previous elohim (read the verse where it says the adam were created male and female as copies of the elohim. wait,i thought eve was a created from adam as the first female. here it says the first female was an adam and created in the likeness of elohim. eve is only differentiated from the former female elohim copies because she was a mother, et al a procreator.

the story is turned on its head
my theory thus far is that somewhere along the line somebody was convinced that enlil was jehovah.

who tries to give the planet to jesus?
the owner, that's who.
jesus is enki-ea, redux

Moses, referred to as "The General' in Egyptian; after successfully leading the army of Egypt against the Ethiopians in the South (Ethiopian wars) under the leadership of Pepe II (VI Dynasty); was found guilty of murder when he struck down a slaver punishing an Israelite at the age of 40 (year 57 of the reign of Pepe II).

He fled Egypt and lived as a shepherd in the land of the Kenites (descendants of Ishmael) in Western Arabia for 40 more years, until the death of Pepe II (longest ruling pharaoh in Egyptian history). At which time Menrenre II takes the thrown (Moses' adopted brother).

Menrenre II dies after 1 year of reigning, by drowning in the "tongue of the Red Sea" (currently called the Gulf of Acaba) located between Sinai and Arabia in 1486 BCE. His death marked the end of the "Old Kingdom" and for all intensive purposes Egypt as a global ruling empire.

After Menrenre II's death, the Hyksos Kings of Egypt took control (foreign shepherd Kings aka Kenites) as a result of the power vacuum created when Pharaoh and His army all died in a single moment (Egypt descends into Chaos).

Solomon erected pillars on both sides of the Gulf of Acaba 500 years later, as a reminder of the Exodus and the crossing of the Red Sea. Beneath this crossing is countless archeological discoveries proving this to be the location of the Red Sea Crossing in Moses's time.

Multiple sources from other kings that were contemporaries of Moses (Zargon the Great) account of this event as well.

Of course this story is not meant to be understood (believed) by mankind as a whole in this present age, but the above is an accurate account of the events recorded in Exodus.

God Bless,