Measles Cases Triple in U.S., Vaccine Refusal Here and Elsewhere to Blame

nugget1
It is possible to make vaccines without all of the questionable preservatives.

Is it?

It is possible to have better quality control, so mass quantities of tainted vaccines aren't given to people.

it is not possible to control for contaminants you dont' know exist, such as SV40

It isn't until AFTER the damage has been done that we learn a batch has been recalled....and the problems were know before the batch was ever released.

Or we find that although there was contamination there is no identifiable effect

Instead of fighting over whether or not to vaccinate, we should be fighting for better oversight of pharmaceutical companies.
Big Business answers to no one, IMO. If humanity doesn't stop them, they will eventually stop humanity.

that last sentence is just silly hyperbole.

My point is that there ARE people oversighting "big pharma" - but they aer not anti-vaxxers! they are other scientists such as Ben Goldacre!

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Pinkorchid

 

supposed link between HIV and polio vaccine - debunked a while back

edit on 10-12-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: (no reason given)

The HIV link is with Hepatitis B, The SV-40 link is with polio.
And it was "covered up" a long time ago.

The GSK MMR(urabe strain in the mumps component) link has never been debunked, which is probably why you didnt address it. It figures.

To quote you yourself..."Just where do you get the audacity to ignore evidence?"

Im starting to think its not the "hippocratic oath" its the "hypocritical oath".

OneManArmy

The HIV link is with Hepatitis B, The SV-40 link is with polio.

Indeed - and that is what was posted about here that I was addressing.

And it was "covered up" a long time ago.

If by "covered up" you mean "addressed" then sure.

but since no-one actually mentioned anything about it that I noticed I wasn't responding to anything about it!!

The GSK MMR(urabe strain in the mumps component) link has never been debunked, which is probably why you didnt address it. It figures.

I didn't address it because either no-one mentioned it before, or I didn't actually notice it among all the other incorrect ramblings. Perhaps you would like to provide a link and a quote for it, and I would be happy to.

To quote you yourself..."Just where do you get the audacity to ignore evidence?"

That would be the bit where no-one provided any evidence that I noticed regarding Hep-B or MMR

Im starting to think its not the "hippocratic oath" its the "hypocritical oath".

You starting to think is a bonus!

Aloysius the Gaul

OneManArmy

The HIV link is with Hepatitis B, The SV-40 link is with polio.

Indeed - and that is what was posted about here that I was addressing.

And it was "covered up" a long time ago.

If by "covered up" you mean "addressed" then sure.

but since no-one actually mentioned anything about it that I noticed I wasn't responding to anything about it!!

The GSK MMR(urabe strain in the mumps component) link has never been debunked, which is probably why you didnt address it. It figures.

I didn't address it because either no-one mentioned it before, or I didn't actually notice it among all the other incorrect ramblings. Perhaps you would like to provide a link and a quote for it, and I would be happy to.

To quote you yourself..."Just where do you get the audacity to ignore evidence?"

That would be the bit where no-one provided any evidence that I noticed regarding Hep-B or MMR

Im starting to think its not the "hippocratic oath" its the "hypocritical oath".

You starting to think is a bonus!

edit on 11-12-2013 by Aloysius the Gaul because: attribution

Sorry, I thought you had done your research, you make such bold claims, I assumed you "must have".

But heres a link for you. Urabe MMR - Source - Oxford Journals

With regards to Sv40 and polio vaccine...

The presence of SV40 in monkey cell cultures used in the preparation of the polio vaccine from 1955 through 1961 is well documented

These data suggest that there may be an increased incidence of certain cancers among the 98 million persons exposed to contaminated polio vaccine in the U.S.; further investigations are clearly justified.

Source - NCBI - NLM

And heres something interesting...

Coinfection with hepatitis B virus (HBV) and HIV is common, with 70-90% of HIV-infected individuals in the United States having evidence of past or active infection with HBV.

Source - HIV Insite



You stopping the smear tactics and derogatory remarks would be a good thing. But I wont hold my breath.

nugget1
reply to post by golemina

 

Text SIDS, yeah someone died from in back in 2034BC. See? So SIDS could NOT POSSIBLY be caused by inoculations!

You have stated several times that SIDS is caused by vaccination, 100%.
YOU have obviously not lost a child to SIDS, or known a close family member who has, or you would have done some research and come to your own conclusion that the information you are so adamant about is false.
PLEASE stop spreading false information about SIDS. IT IS NOT caused 100% by vaccinations.
MISS Nugget

False?

You mean false in YOUR opinion.

My information comes from first hand accounts of EMTs essentially picking the bodies of the DEAD KIDS... EVERY TIME there is a new wave of inoculations.

I will repeat... for the record.

SIDS is 100% caused by inoculations!



Get a clue... go look at the the technical aspects of this so-called 'disease'...

It's PURE FICTION!



Much like Restless Leg Syndrome, Acid Reflux Disease, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Attention Deficit Disorder, Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Repetitive Motion Disorder, yada yada yada.

Oh almost forgot my favorite one. PLFA, also know as Panty Lines on my Fat Ass! Fortunately, Big Pharma has a drug for it, unfortunately one of it's side effects is 'anal leakage'.



Sorry, I totally made the last one up...

Seriously, did you listen to the entire video with Dr. John Rengen Virapen?

Any of that register with you at all?

It simply doesn't get any more from the horses mouth than that!

>'...or you would have done some research and come to your own conclusion that the information you are so adamant about is false.'

Please...

Do you understand that a 'web site' is just some files that someone parked on a server somewhere?

Do you understand that most of the 'web sites' are just flat out disinformation... funded by blood money?

You really think the US acronyms are bona fide organizations?

What you fail to want to understand... Is that some of us are in the trenches... and we are giving it to you straight.

And trust me... It is SERIOUSLY ugly out there!

reply to post by golemina

I'm only going to address one aspect of your post, because it's one I have extensive experience with: gastroesophageal reflux disease, or GERD, is far from "fiction," and it's super obnoxious that you just laugh it off as such.

Is it overdiagnosed? Yes. Can most people with GERD alleviate their symptoms with diet and lifestyle changes? Yes, and I'm a huge proponent of people making these changes before EVER turning to medication. Do the medications available to treat GERD (especially proton pump inhibitors) have serious negative aspects? Definitely. Does all of this mean that GERD is a "fake disease"? No.

Please tell me how a person with a congenital defect of the digestive system (non-functioning lower esophageal sphincter) that results in the stomach contents (including acid) not staying "put" as they should is just faking it, falling victim to Evil Big Pharma, needs to eat more celery, hasn't surrounded themselves with enough charged crystals, or whatever.

Then, I would like to hear what your experience "in the trenches" consists of. Are you some sort of medical practitioner? Have you worked in some sort of a research lab? Are you basing all of these assertions off of anecdotal evidence?

Oh, and your comment about "most" websites being "disinformation... funded by blood money" just shows that you also don't understand the internet. It's not nearly that centralized.

golemina

False?

Yes false, as the other poster said.

You mean false in YOUR opinion.

My information comes from first hand accounts of EMTs essentially picking the bodies of the DEAD KIDS... EVERY TIME there is a new wave of inoculations.

The level of ridiculous in this statement alone is staggering. When did the EMT's start innoculating children? Are they bringing them to the dr/clinic/hospital and wa5tching them get their shots before the infants die suddenly?

I will repeat... for the record.

SIDS is 100% caused by inoculations!

Then why, pray tell, is the level of SIDS related deaths dropping and there has been no conclusive link found between immunizing a infant and SIDS?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

RESULTS:

SIDS cases were immunised less frequently and later than controls. Furthermore there was no increased risk of SIDS in the 14 days following immunisation. There was no evidence to suggest the recently introduced hexavalent vaccines were associated with an increased risk of SIDS.
CONCLUSIONS:

This study provides further support that immunisations may reduce the risk of SIDS.

And as that last line suggests, may even reduce the risk of SIDS in infants.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Immunisations are associated with a halving of the risk of SIDS. There are biological reasons why this association may be causal, but other factors, such as the healthy vaccinee effect, may be important. Immunisations should be part of the SIDS prevention campaigns.

It's PURE FICTION!

No, in fact it isn't and has been studied for at least 50 years under this particular name.

Much like Restless Leg Syndrome, Acid Reflux Disease, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Attention Deficit Disorder, Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Repetitive Motion Disorder, yada yada yada.

I'm sure your medical credentials are capable of letting you make that broad sweeping statement, right? Your years of medical research into these diseases/syndrome's must have produced volumes of scientific and medical papers published in the most prestigious journals out there.

What you fail to want to understand... Is that some of us are in the trenches... and we are giving it to you straight.

And trust me... It is SERIOUSLY ugly out there!

Oh it is, especially with the outbreaks of diseases that shouldn't be happening because people like you and others push this "don't vaccinate your kids, it's evil" BS. That's what's ugly and the kids who suffer needlessly because of it.

golemina

nugget1
reply to post by golemina

 

Text SIDS, yeah someone died from in back in 2034BC. See? So SIDS could NOT POSSIBLY be caused by inoculations!

You have stated several times that SIDS is caused by vaccination, 100%.
YOU have obviously not lost a child to SIDS, or known a close family member who has, or you would have done some research and come to your own conclusion that the information you are so adamant about is false.
PLEASE stop spreading false information about SIDS. IT IS NOT caused 100% by vaccinations.
MISS Nugget

False?

You mean false in YOUR opinion.

My information comes from first hand accounts of EMTs essentially picking the bodies of the DEAD KIDS... EVERY TIME there is a new wave of inoculations.

I will repeat... for the record.

SIDS is 100% caused by inoculations!

Get a clue... go look at the the technical aspects of this so-called 'disease'...

It's PURE FICTION!

Much like Restless Leg Syndrome, Acid Reflux Disease, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Attention Deficit Disorder, Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Repetitive Motion Disorder, yada yada yada.

Oh almost forgot my favorite one. PLFA, also know as Panty Lines on my Fat Ass! Fortunately, Big Pharma has a drug for it, unfortunately one of it's side effects is 'anal leakage'.

Sorry, I totally made the last one up...

Seriously, did you listen to the entire video with Dr. John Rengen Virapen?

Any of that register with you at all?

It simply doesn't get any more from the horses mouth than that!

>'...or you would have done some research and come to your own conclusion that the information you are so adamant about is false.'

Please...

Do you understand that a 'web site' is just some files that someone parked on a server somewhere?

Do you understand that most of the 'web sites' are just flat out disinformation... funded by blood money?

You really think the US acronyms are bona fide organizations?

What you fail to want to understand... Is that some of us are in the trenches... and we are giving it to you straight.

And trust me... It is SERIOUSLY ugly out there!

Babies who have never been vaccinated have died from SIDS.
You are adamantly spreading false information.
Please stop.

reply to post by OneManArmy


One man army, posting some graph with Irans Gdp on it is pretty meaningless, Europe has lower wealth per capita than the US but our healthcare systems work way better and our average lifespan is longer. It's how it's distributed and how good the social care system in the country is.

A better guide is overall lifespan and infant mortality.
Infant mortality places it at 129th in the world.
Lifespanis 67th.

So, not world leaders in health care.

Call me the devils advocate... could any antivaxxer please post me a large scale study the shows autism is more frequent in vaccinated kids. I looked (and i'm a good researcher) and couldn't find one.

That on line poll you lot keep touting as a study isn't one. No examination to confirm condtion etc. Very dodgy source.I assume if one existed, you'd be pasting it all over the place.

It's just if it did cause autism, you should all club together to fund a study. It would be easy enough to hire a few drs who specialise in autism to do a cohort study on about 10,000 children, then you'd know if you were being hoodwinked by big pharma or chasing phantoms.

Antigod


It's just if it did cause autism, you should all club together to fund a study. It would be easy enough to hire a few drs who specialise in autism to do a cohort study on about 10,000 children, then you'd know if you were being hoodwinked by big pharma or chasing phantoms.

The hoodwinking by big pharma isnt "just" about autism.
Its about scandal after scandal after scandal.

Like I said before, its like asking Jimmy Savile or Gary Glitter to babysit for you.

But if you trust proven criminals, its your choice.
Dont let anything anybody else has to say affect your judgement.
Take these blue pills and go back to sleep. There is nothing to see here.

Heads up

The last time I checked this wasn't a schoolyard, so the childish name calling and petty bickering stops now.

This is the ONLY warning you'll get.

I hope thats clear.

reply to post by OneManArmy


It is mostly about profit actually, and it is nothing at all like having Saville babysit for you - that is just needless hyperbolism.

as I have previously mentioned - Ben Goldacre's Bad Science blog has a great deal of information on the nefarious practices of "big pharma" - which are certainly about hiding negative consequences of many medicines that should have been made public - in order to get approval for those medicines and hence make profits.

His crusade is to ensure that ALL studies have to be published, not just het ones that show medicines up in a good light, and his TED talk linked on the left of that page is instructive as to how some of these cases can be identified.

AFAIK big pharma would actually benefit if vaccines were not used!! - there is more money to be made from drugs than vaccines!!

Are vaccines really profitable?

It would be insane for anyone to claim they are not highly profitable. But here are some facts that might temper your expectations that vaccines are that valuable:
•Just to give some perspective, IMS, the top pharmaceutical market analysis firm, estimates the 2010 revenues for pharmaceuticals to be over US$955 billion, and will exceed US$1 trillion dollars by 2013. Big Pharma also shows revenues of around US$300 billion in medical devices in 2012, and close to US$320 billion in 2013. So the total revenues that Big Pharma will derive just from pharmaceuticals and devices will be around US$1.32 trillion.
•According to the World Health Organization, estimated 2013 global revenues for vaccines is around US$24 billion. In other words, from the Big Pharma perspective, vaccines make up around 1.82% of their total expected revenues in 2013. That’s essentially a rounding error in estimating revenues, that is, errors in estimating these revenues could have a value greater than US$24 billion.

Debunking the anti-vaccine movement is trivial these days

reply to post by boymonkey74


Actually yes.

Once close to eradication worldwide, the dreaded disease polio is resurfacing in Muslim-majority countries where vaccinations are hard to come by due to war, religious edicts and ignorance, experts say.

www.usatoday.com...

reply to post by Antigod


It's incredible how wrong you can be with your facts. The United States ranks 33rd world wide and there is only a 4 year difference from the countries tied for the highest life expectancy.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Did you just pick numbers out of thin air?

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I think I misunderstood your position on this subject.
I will be first to say "sorry". I apologise. I think we have a similar position.

Personally I think the "anti vax" side is guilty of skewing data to suit an agenda as much as big pharma is.

I dont think my Jimmy Savile metaphor was hyperbole, just common sense in an easy to understand manner.

reply to post by yamammasamonkey

It's incredible how wrong you can be with your facts. The United States ranks 33rd world wide and there is only a 4 year difference from the countries tied for the highest life expectancy.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Did you just pick numbers out of thin air?

I was discussing IRAN, not America with onemanarmy. I should have pasted his reply onto mine for those new to the page. He was claiming Iran had great healthcare-I was pointing out his mistake, as the US has a higher GDP than most European countries but the average healthcare level and lifespan sucks for gdp. SO GDP can't be taken as an indicator for general population health. Those stats were for Iran's healthcare.

PS your manner was a bit offensive. You might want to either familiarise yourself with the prior debate or tone it down next time.