Measles Cases Triple in U.S., Vaccine Refusal Here and Elsewhere to Blame

golemina
ATS is supposed to be full of bright independent thinkers...

So what are your qualifications? Do you have a degree in:
Medicine
Microbiology
Immunology?
A Nurse?

Or are you some high school drop out or liberal arts major pretending to know what you are talking about?

golemina
Yet here we have another thread embracing the 'Disease' model.

Talk about go back 4 centuries!


So what bad smells cause it? Sea monsters? demons? Curses from god?

golemina
Vaccines do NOT prevent disease... They CAUSE it.

I guess the last 200 years of clinical data is all BS and smallpox just decided to go EMO and kill itself?

golemina
What more proof than 'Flu' vaccines do ya'll need?

I agree flu vaccines are abit useless, But there is a HUGE difference between say flu and say tetanus or polio.

golemina
'Medical Science' sells themselves (and their numerous USELESS products) as 'Scientists' but the sad sad dirty little truth is it's all about cash flow... and they are TOTAL charlatans.

Yeah ok.....you do know allot of research is done by (normally undefunded) biology departments in universities that are independent, results either way wont bring in extra money unless its a major breakthrough. Not all research is in the private sector.

golemina
If you eat anywhere near close to properly, you will NOT become affected by disease.

I cant stop laughing

Sorry but if you believe that I challenge you to go to a area with a yellow fever epidemic and camp near the swamp for a few days and then see what happens .

golemina
If you don't poison yourself by exposing yourself to toxic materials/environments, you will NOT become affected by disease.

Please I will die of laughter!
Again I challenge you to go to a area with a Ebola outbreak and give a infected person a big kiss.

golemina
Most (if not ALL) disease is caused by modern living.

so I guess the millions that have died of Cholera and smallpox since human history began are fake and they all just happened to kill themselves?

golemina
At the turn of the century (1900's)... NO ONE died from heart attacks. NO ONE!!! There was NO SUCH disease. Tada!

Erm you do know there is a difference between a disease caused by a Micro organism and a congenital or environmental induced organ damage?

If you don't you have NO right to be handing out ANY medical advice.

golemina
Yet here we are... despite the vast resources brought to bear by these ridiculous charlatans, it is the leading cause of death...

(Hard to get away from that one

)

Not really.

You maybe want to factor in that before we knew how to treat micro organisms the leading cause of death was them and life expectancy was as low as 40 at some points in history. Once we got them under control life expectancy has risen to 75> hence why we have a different cause of death. If we sort heart disease and cancer out our life expectancy will probably rise to 100> and a new common cause of death will appear.

golemina
Remember these idiotic 'doctors' selling 'vaccinations' are exactly the same morons pushing CHEMOTHERAPY, the most vile toxic poisonous substances you could ever think of, in an insane attempt to counter the effects of a highly poisoned body, they inject large doses of a poison SO TOXIC, the nurses typically industrial toxic material handlers gloves...

The ignorance is astounding! I dunno is there any point to explain why chemo is used? will you even be able to comprehend it? Di you even pass high school science?

golemina
Trust me... They DON'T want that stuff even TOUCHING their skin!

Of course not THEY DONT HAVE CANCER! If you don't have cancer then taking in the chemo will inflict side affects they don't need! Not to mention you need to control the dosage.


The website says deny ignorance.

Well you whole post is the definition of ignorance

boymonkey74
reply to post by golemina

 

Again Autism was about before the vaccines came out.
Case closed.

Really?

Got any support for that assertion?

golemina


Of course there is no hard proof! (of anything anti-inoculation)

Medical personnel will UNDER NO CONDITIONS record an incidence of ADVERSE REACTIONS!

So if the occurances are never actually recorded... then it never happened.

This post is just wrong....wrong on so many levels.


You seem to have no idea how medical research is done and the validation work that has to be done to even get something tested on animals.

golemina

opopanax
I'm still waiting for someone from the anti-vaccine camp to show me a medical treatment, be it "conventional" or "alternative," that works 100% of the time (heck, I'll even accept >50% of the time) and has a 0% risk of adverse effects. As far as I know, such a treatment does not exist.

Of course vaccines aren't harmless. Of course there's risk involved. The rare cases where people do experience serious adverse effects from vaccines, however, should not be used to damn the entire idea of vaccination. I've heard some people say that even if one vaccine causes one child to "go Autistic" (as Rubinstein/Hiddencode would say) that all vaccination should be halted. Using this logic, we should just abandon medicine altogether, unless there's some reason why vaccines are special and must be held to a different standard than every other type of medication, treatment, cure, etc.

The idea that vaccines aren't tested for safety, or that they're barely tested, before being approved for use is ludicrous. If you believe this is true I encourage you to read up on the extensive process a drug or medical device must go through before being OK'd by the FDA.

The idea that no unvaccinated autistic people exist is also patently untrue.

>'The idea that no unvaccinated autistic people exist is also patently untrue.'

Really?

Based on what?

I've got one word for you... Amish.

Case closed.

>'I'm still waiting for someone from the anti-vaccine camp to show me a medical treatment, be it "conventional" or "alternative," that works 100% of the time (heck, I'll even accept >50% of the time) and has a 0% risk of adverse effects. As far as I know, such a treatment does not exist.'

Instead of speaking in vague generalities...

Maybe we should talk about specific diseases...

I'm more than happy to explain how to CURE most diseases with SIMPLE diet. Especially, the so-called 'degenerative' 'diseases'.

'Doctors' are amazingly clueless. The simply aren't equipped to recognize/deal with the fact that the 'disease model' is a failed paradigm.

They literally have almost no understanding of the body's metabollic processes... have no understanding of the effects of good nutrition and clean water... have simply no clue about the reality of the immune system (most of it lives in your bowels

)...

So how can they possibly diagnose and remedy the body's deviations from health?

Specifics please.

edit on 9-12-2013 by golemina because: Missing comment.

Here's a nice study about Amish and autism.
imfar.confex.com...

reply to post by webedoomed


Iam responding to the fella who says no one gets autism if they don't get vaccinated.

Oh and to that guy.

www.webmd.com...

Autism was first coined in the early 1900's

The MRR vaccine came out in 1963.
So his comment that people can't get autism If not vaccinated is just a lie.
Anyhow he must remeber I have already shown him this and this proves to me he is just trolling.
Iam out.

golemina

boymonkey74
reply to post by golemina

 

Again Autism was about before the vaccines came out.
Case closed.

Really?

Got any support for that assertion?

Whilst this isn't definitive proof by any means it's a good starting point.
muse.jhu.edu...

Derision attack...

Wow... No one has ever thought of that before!



Hey I freely admit that I'm a heretic!

Like I might have alluded to before...

People that are capable (and willing to) attempt the recommended alterations to something so simple as their DIETS! recover from the temporary dysfunctions and pay the price of living...

LONG and HEALTHY lives!

Guys that follow the MUCH more knowledgeable than myself path (read: 'medical' 'professionals', you know with all those PHds! )

They tend to die these HIDEOUS deaths!

You do the math hombre.

golemina


Really?

Got any support for that assertion?

Chronological history of autism
Eugen Bleuler coined the word "autism" in 1908 among severely withdrawn schizophrenic patients.
In 1943 American child psychiatrist Leo Kanner studied 11 children. The children had features of difficulties in social interactions, difficulty in adapting to changes in routines, good memory, sensitivity to stimuli (especially sound), resistance and allergies to food, good intellectual potential, echolalia or propensity to repeat words of the speaker and difficulties in spontaneous activity.
In 1944 Hans Asperger, working separately, studied a group of children. His children also resembled Kanner’s descriptions. The children he studied, however, did not have echolalia as a linguistic problem but spoke like grownups. He also mentioned that many of the children were clumsy and different from normal children in terms of fine motor skills.
Next Bruno Bettelheim studied the effect of three therapy sessions with children who he called autistic. He claimed that the problem in the children was due to coldness of their mothers. He separated the children from their parents. Kanner and Bettelheim both worked towards making hypothesis that showed autistic children had frigid mothers
Bernard Rimland was a psychologist and parent of a child with autism. He disagreed with Bettelheim. He did not agree that the cause of his son’s autism was due to either his or his wife’s parenting skills. In 1964, Bernard Rimland published, Infantile Autism: The Syndrome and its Implications for a Neural Theory of Behavior.
Autism came to be better known in the 1970’s. The Erica Foundation started education and therapy for psychotic children in the beginning of the 80s. Many parents still confused autism with mental retardation and psychosis.
It was in 1980’s that Asperger’s work was translated to English and published and came into knowledge.
It was in the 1980’s that research on autism gained momentum. It was increasingly believed that parenting had no role in causation of autism and there were neurological disturbances and other genetic ailments like tuberous sclerosis, metabolic disturbances like PKU or chromosomal abnormalities like fragile X syndrome.
Lorna Wing, along with Christopher Gillberg at BNK (Children's Neuro-Psychiatric Clinic) in Sweden in the 1980’s found the Wing’s triad of disturbed mutual contact, disturbed mutual communication and limited imagination. In the 1990’s they added another factor making it a square. The factor was limited planning ability.
Ole Ivar Lovaas studied and furthered behavioural analysis and treatment of children with autism. Lovaas achieved limited success at first with his experimental behaviour analysis. He developed it to target younger children (less than 5 years of age) and implemented treatment at home and increased the intensity (a measurement of the amount of “therapy time”) to about 40 hours weekly. Lovaas wrote Teaching Developmentally Disabled Children: The Me Book in 1981. In 2002, Lovaas wrote, Teaching Individuals With Developmental Delays: Basic Intervention Techniques.

Source - News-Medical.Net

boymonkey74
reply to post by webedoomed

 

Iam responding to the fella who says no one gets autism if they don't get vaccinated.

Oh and to that guy.

www.webmd.com...

Autism was first coined in the early 1900's

The MRR vaccine came out in 1963.
So his comment that people can't get autism If not vaccinated is just a lie.
Anyhow he must remeber I have already shown him this and this proves to me he is just trolling.
Iam out.

edit on 9-12-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

Sorry to hear that bro.

WebMD is not a valid reference for purposes of this discussion.

What you say?

Do they publish ANY statistics on how many people experience 'complications' from their treatments?

My favorite is when they prescribe Tylenol for fever control...

Instead of letting the fever do it's part to defend the body.

We controlled your fever, but you died from pneumonia.



I miss you Bernie Mack!

reply to post by golemina


You know what there is no debateing with people like you.


You guys just cant seem to comprehend simple 101 science.

reply to post by rickymouse

reactions from what I have read and they aren't that bad, that is allowable I assume. Your extravagant overstatement of the safety is not true, read some actual medical research articles on the numbers. Most people assume it is safe for almost everyone when in fact it is not. My 2-3 percent may be a little low, but I do not want to overstate the bad in this. It could be a little higher

I'm a mother who knows hundreds of kids through school and family, not one of the mums I've met has mentioned a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine. I know this because I talk to them. I've also asked the nurse who vaccinates the kids at my surgery, she can only remeber a couple of bad reactions after the jabs, non had serious after effects or were life threatening. I asked after I had my first kid given the mmr. I then checked the statistics for cases of encephalitis or hospitalisation after mmr... also freakishly uncommon. I used papers that followed up children after vaccination, not reported as an adverse effect., to check.

About 1/6 get a moderate fever
About 1/3000 get febrile seizures (not a major deal, common with fever in young children)
About 1/300,000 measles encephalitis

This one: Parental reports of adverse events following simultaneously given dT-IPV and MMR vaccines in healthy 9-year-old children, studied 1250 children and their parents reported no serious adverse effects
www.bioportfolio.com...

there's also this study of Iranian kids, a medical follow up study.

Adverse reactions following immunization with MMR vaccine in children at selected provinces of Iran.
Esteghamati A, Keshtkar A, Heshmat R, Gouya MM, Salar Amoli M, Armin S, Mahoney F.
Source
Department of Pediatrics, Faculty of Medicine, Tehran University of Medical Sciences, Tehran, Iran.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Several adverse events following immunization (AEFI) have been attributed to immunization with live attenuated measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccines. The MMR vaccine was introduced into the routine infant immunization schedule in 2003, followed by a second dose of vaccine at school-entry for children 4 to 6 years of age. The objective of this study was to characterize adverse reactions following MMR vaccination in Iran.
METHODS:
Children who received the MMR vaccine and resided in five selected provinces of Iran were examined weekly for four weeks to detect well-known AEFIs that included: parotitis, fever and convulsions, convulsions without fever, encephalopathy, and anaphylactic reactions. Incidence of AEFIs were calculated and compared among recipients in both age groups.
RESULTS:
During the follow-up period, trained providers reported 792 AEFIs. Parotitis was the most frequent event occurring in 1.8% of recipients. Of 14,109 children vaccinated at 12 months of age the following AEFIs occurred: parotitis (147), fever and convulsions (8), convulsions (7), encephalopathy (1), and anaphylactic reactions (1). Of 29,338 children vaccinated at 4 to 6 years of age, parotitis, fever and convulsions, encephalopathy, and anaphylaxis occurred in 626, 5, 1, and 1 child, respectively; no convulsions without fever were reported in this age group.
CONCLUSION:
Parotitis is the most frequent AEFI among MMR vaccine recipients in Iran. Incidence rates of AEFIs following MMR vaccination in Iran are similar to rates of AEFIs reported in other studies.

This one studied 29,338 children. 2 notable bad responses, and bear in mind the level of health in kids in Iran is way lower than here, and there's no guarantee that the illnesses after were caused by the jabs (poor country, crappy level of health and lots of infections about).

So i'm assuming you're just making up the 2-3%, or getting it of some naturopathic site.

reply to post by golemina


There are probably no sources you would aprove of.


Well except the woo woo wack job websites that agree with you.

OneManArmy

golemina


Really?

Got any support for that assertion?

Chronological history of autism
Eugen Bleuler coined the word "autism" in 1908 among severely withdrawn schizophrenic patients.
In 1943 American child psychiatrist Leo Kanner studied 11 children. The children had features of difficulties in social interactions, difficulty in adapting to changes in routines, good memory, sensitivity to stimuli (especially sound), resistance and allergies to food, good intellectual potential, echolalia or propensity to repeat words of the speaker and difficulties in spontaneous activity.
In 1944 Hans Asperger, working separately, studied a group of children. His children also resembled Kanner’s descriptions. The children he studied, however, did not have echolalia as a linguistic problem but spoke like grownups. He also mentioned that many of the children were clumsy and different from normal children in terms of fine motor skills.
Next Bruno Bettelheim studied the effect of three therapy sessions with children who he called autistic. He claimed that the problem in the children was due to coldness of their mothers. He separated the children from their parents. Kanner and Bettelheim both worked towards making hypothesis that showed autistic children had frigid mothers
Bernard Rimland was a psychologist and parent of a child with autism. He disagreed with Bettelheim. He did not agree that the cause of his son’s autism was due to either his or his wife’s parenting skills. In 1964, Bernard Rimland published, Infantile Autism: The Syndrome and its Implications for a Neural Theory of Behavior.
Autism came to be better known in the 1970’s. The Erica Foundation started education and therapy for psychotic children in the beginning of the 80s. Many parents still confused autism with mental retardation and psychosis.
It was in 1980’s that Asperger’s work was translated to English and published and came into knowledge.
It was in the 1980’s that research on autism gained momentum. It was increasingly believed that parenting had no role in causation of autism and there were neurological disturbances and other genetic ailments like tuberous sclerosis, metabolic disturbances like PKU or chromosomal abnormalities like fragile X syndrome.
Lorna Wing, along with Christopher Gillberg at BNK (Children's Neuro-Psychiatric Clinic) in Sweden in the 1980’s found the Wing’s triad of disturbed mutual contact, disturbed mutual communication and limited imagination. In the 1990’s they added another factor making it a square. The factor was limited planning ability.
Ole Ivar Lovaas studied and furthered behavioural analysis and treatment of children with autism. Lovaas achieved limited success at first with his experimental behaviour analysis. He developed it to target younger children (less than 5 years of age) and implemented treatment at home and increased the intensity (a measurement of the amount of “therapy time”) to about 40 hours weekly. Lovaas wrote Teaching Developmentally Disabled Children: The Me Book in 1981. In 2002, Lovaas wrote, Teaching Individuals With Developmental Delays: Basic Intervention Techniques.

Source - News-Medical.Net

And this is somehow 'complete'?



Where is the discussion of causative factors?



Let me give you a hint... (I've already discussed the last time we had a PHANTOM CNS disease and it's CURE)

'Medical' 'science' is so guilty of revisionist history.

Remember when they would blame the MOM! cuz some kid would wet the bed!

How many dozen other RIDICULOUS notions were used throughout the years?

Let me show how golem does things...

Bed wetting is CURED by a simple middle spine adjustment from a single visit to ANY chiropractor.

Tada... CURED!

We can go into the details... if you like... just ask.

reply to post by golemina

Nah, they didn't die from 'lack of health care'...
They died from malnutrition and polluted environments and polluted water and polluted foodstuff.
Just look at modern China... those people care 0% about their own people...
And those are the nice folks... polluting our food streams...
Killing our pets with their insanely contaminated food stuffs...
Accident?
No. 'Things' are EXACTLY the way they are by DESIGN.
If we cared about the quality of our food, we would only deal with cultures like Japan...
Where it is a HUGE DISHONOR to do what the Chinese do...
Without even thinking twice.

BTW, your 'chart'... Not so credible.

Uh ok. So you watched a documentary on China and you watched Samurai movies…

It's quite obvious you are trolling the forum.

Amish don't have autism, cancer isn't real, aids is a monkey cold that was genetically engineered for black people, yadda yadda yadda…

Banana?

Antigod

This one studied 29,338 children. 2 notable bad responses, and bear in mind the level of health in kids in Iran is way lower than here, and there's no guarantee that the illnesses after were caused by the jabs (poor country, crappy level of health and lots of infections about).

So i'm assuming you're just making up the 2-3%, or getting it of some naturopathic site.

Iran is by no means a "poor country" with "crappy level of health".



Dont believe the crap your government tells you when they wish to demonise the "enemy".

crazyewok
reply to post by golemina

 

There are probably no sources you would aprove of.


Well except the woo woo wack job websites that agree with you.

Hey Wok!



Which sites are those EXACTLY?

Specifics please?

You really MUST show me which 'sites' I've referenced!

Remember big guy, I source ALL of my own stuff.

You know... One of the bennies of having the ability to remember long lists of useless facts!

reply to post by Aisling


Thanks for sharing , we are placed in the most horrible positions with our children and these vaccinations.

We are lied to and turned into leapers , made to feel terribly guilty for not having them done . Bombarded with all sorts of State sponsored bull and we even have our own community turned against us.

Children are excluded from education and are taken away from parents , all because they want to ( presumably)?? protect your child. While on the other side of their faces, they rake in millions and millions of dollars through the profit of your child's body.

I understand this dilemma for all those poor and confused parents under siege from the Government.

You can only make the best choice you can for your babies , lets hope in the future , the choice you have to make won't include blackmail and pumping toxins into them.

We all want our children to have a good chance in life and we all do the best we can to see that come about.

I believe that is what every parents intention is and there is no shame in doing what you can for your child.

The Government and the Big Farm on the other hand has a lot to answer for.

golemina

OneManArmy

golemina


Really?

Got any support for that assertion?

Chronological history of autism
Eugen Bleuler coined the word "autism" in 1908 among severely withdrawn schizophrenic patients.
In 1943 American child psychiatrist Leo Kanner studied 11 children. The children had features of difficulties in social interactions, difficulty in adapting to changes in routines, good memory, sensitivity to stimuli (especially sound), resistance and allergies to food, good intellectual potential, echolalia or propensity to repeat words of the speaker and difficulties in spontaneous activity.
In 1944 Hans Asperger, working separately, studied a group of children. His children also resembled Kanner’s descriptions. The children he studied, however, did not have echolalia as a linguistic problem but spoke like grownups. He also mentioned that many of the children were clumsy and different from normal children in terms of fine motor skills.
Next Bruno Bettelheim studied the effect of three therapy sessions with children who he called autistic. He claimed that the problem in the children was due to coldness of their mothers. He separated the children from their parents. Kanner and Bettelheim both worked towards making hypothesis that showed autistic children had frigid mothers
Bernard Rimland was a psychologist and parent of a child with autism. He disagreed with Bettelheim. He did not agree that the cause of his son’s autism was due to either his or his wife’s parenting skills. In 1964, Bernard Rimland published, Infantile Autism: The Syndrome and its Implications for a Neural Theory of Behavior.
Autism came to be better known in the 1970’s. The Erica Foundation started education and therapy for psychotic children in the beginning of the 80s. Many parents still confused autism with mental retardation and psychosis.
It was in 1980’s that Asperger’s work was translated to English and published and came into knowledge.
It was in the 1980’s that research on autism gained momentum. It was increasingly believed that parenting had no role in causation of autism and there were neurological disturbances and other genetic ailments like tuberous sclerosis, metabolic disturbances like PKU or chromosomal abnormalities like fragile X syndrome.
Lorna Wing, along with Christopher Gillberg at BNK (Children's Neuro-Psychiatric Clinic) in Sweden in the 1980’s found the Wing’s triad of disturbed mutual contact, disturbed mutual communication and limited imagination. In the 1990’s they added another factor making it a square. The factor was limited planning ability.
Ole Ivar Lovaas studied and furthered behavioural analysis and treatment of children with autism. Lovaas achieved limited success at first with his experimental behaviour analysis. He developed it to target younger children (less than 5 years of age) and implemented treatment at home and increased the intensity (a measurement of the amount of “therapy time”) to about 40 hours weekly. Lovaas wrote Teaching Developmentally Disabled Children: The Me Book in 1981. In 2002, Lovaas wrote, Teaching Individuals With Developmental Delays: Basic Intervention Techniques.

Source - News-Medical.Net

And this is somehow 'complete'?

Where is the discussion of causative factors?

Let me give you a hint... (I've already discussed the last time we had a PHANTOM CNS disease and it's CURE)

'Medical' 'science' is so guilty of revisionist history.

Remember when they would blame the MOM! cuz some kid would wet the bed!

How many dozen other RIDICULOUS notions were used throughout the years?

Let me show how golem does things...

Bed wetting is CURED by a simple middle spine adjustment from a single visit to ANY chiropractor.

Tada... CURED!

We can go into the details... if you like... just ask.

You asked for evidence of a history of autism pre vaccination, I provided it.
The jump in cases post 1980 would support your claim, if only you had read it, instead of just disregarding it.
You can ignore it if you wish, I dont care.
Ive been called anti vax myself, Im "supposed" to be on your side.
Its starting to look like you are putting my reservations into perspective.

golemina

Remember big guy, I source ALL of my own stuff.

You know... One of the bennies of having the ability to remember long lists of useless facts!

Which makes all of what you say even more BS.


Id rather go with decades of independant peer reviewed data and my OWN lab data.

Pinkorchid
reply to post by Aisling

 

Thanks for sharing , we are placed in the most horrible positions with our children and these vaccinations.

We are lied to and turned into leapers , made to feel terribly guilty for not having them done . Bombarded with all sorts of State sponsored bull and we even have our own community turned against us.

Children are excluded from education and are taken away from parents , all because they want to ( presumably)?? protect your child. While on the other side of their faces, they rake in millions and millions of dollars through the profit of your child's body.

I understand this dilemma for all those poor and confused parents under siege from the Government.

You can only make the best choice you can for your babies , lets hope in the future , the choice you have to make won't include blackmail and pumping toxins into them.

We all want our children to have a good chance in life and we all do the best we can to see that come about.

I believe that is what every parents intention is and there is no shame in doing what you can for your child.

The Government and the Big Farm on the other hand has a lot to answer for.

A very salient and thought provoking post.
The medical dictatorship and "guilt" projected onto non vaccinating parents troubles me deeply.
Its exactly the same as the guilt they placed on people that choose to smoke.
By portraying them as selfish murderers of others. Its pretty sick really, when taken on balance with the destruction caused by government sanctioned corporations and wars for profit.