Measles Cases Triple in U.S., Vaccine Refusal Here and Elsewhere to Blame

boncho

golemina

boncho
reply to post by golemina

At the turn of the century (1900's)... NO ONE died from heart attacks. NO ONE!!! There was NO SUCH disease. Tada!

 

nah, sure there wasn't, there was just a really low life expectancy. And if you go back to the to 1000 BCE, there was even less disease! And there were no viruses, or bacteria!

Problem was (is always...) diet.
(And clean SPRING water, sanitation)
Those guys ate animal fats. Had no heart attacks.
Doctors (and the FDA) dietary and medical recommendations... Heart attacks, the leading cause of work stopage.

No actually, laziness and not being worked to death or having your life cut short before you could even get heart disease.

Although there are many factors. Considering the life expectancy during the industrial revolution was anywhere from 25-40* in some places, it is no wonder people never had time to have heart problems.

Of course, this doesn't represent the entire picture. Hundreds and thousands died before they reached 18 years, which offsets the lucky few who did live into old age. They died from lack of healthcare, to common diseases, to malnutrition, etc. Others were simply worked to death in factories.

This still goes on in some parts of the world, and the same society that allows us to get fat and have heart attacks, also lets us grow into old age.

edit on 9-12-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)

Nah, they didn't die from 'lack of health care'...

They died from malnutrition and polluted environments and polluted water and polluted foodstuff.

Just look at modern China... those people care 0% about their own people...

And those are the nice folks... polluting our food streams...

Killing our pets with their insanely contaminated food stuffs...

Accident?

No. 'Things' are EXACTLY the way they are by DESIGN.

If we cared about the quality of our food, we would only deal with cultures like Japan...

Where it is a HUGE DISHONOR to do what the Chinese do...

Without even thinking twice.



BTW, your 'chart'... Not so credible.

reply to post by OneManArmy


A little leeway here. When someone says vaccines are killing us I'm not thinking oh he means the few rare cases. The assumption, and I am aware of the limitations of assuming, is that the death rate is substantial. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Because milk is killing us at about the same rate . Or cats, And better stay out of cars because then the rate really skyrockets.

reply to post by golemina


I'm all for denying ignorance, but I don't see a reason for being rude, and I don't understand how that will sway anyone to see your view.

I think whether to vaccinate or not, should be a personal decision, but, it's a decision that should not be made without considering research from both sides of the argument. That goes for both sides of the argument.

There is not a medical treatment in existence that doesn't come without a risk, and vaccines are no exception.

The risks of vaccinating or not, need to be equally weighed before deciding either way.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by OneManArmy

 

A little leeway here. When someone says vaccines are killing us I'm not thinking oh he means the few rare cases. The assumption, and I am aware of the limitations of assuming, is that the death rate is substantial. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Because milk is killing us at about the same rate . Or cats, And better stay out of cars because then the rate really skyrockets.

Dont forget household accidents.
Yes I get exactly what you are saying, as its part of my whole argument, about perspective on the dangers of measles.
Im for informed free choice and a balanced weighing up of the odds, not propaganda on both sides of the argument muddying the waters for people that wish to make such an important decision as looking after their childrens health and future well being.
The vaccine studies have been very limited in their scope and Im left asking WHY?
The scare mongering is vast, given the small dangers posed by disease in the western, sanitized and well fed, world.
Im not denying the risks are there, its just a matter of perspective.

boymonkey74
reply to post by nugget1

 

You get more mercury eating a can of tuna.
In fact you breath in more toxic chemicals than in vaccines from cars, pollution etc.

Then it's a good thing I don't mainline the contents within a can of tuna.

Apples and oranges, buddy.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by golemina

 

Really poor argument.

Specificity please.

I'm into details.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by golemina

 

SIDS is not a disease and no one ever said t was. It's a syndrome. Ann kids do die in their cribs from no known cause. I hope you never loose a child due to this.

I'm sorry that might the funniest thing I've heard in a long time.

Please DO explain the difference to us between a 'disease' and a 'syndrome'.

I can GUARANTEE 100% how to have your children not die from SIDS...

Simply DO NOT get them 'inoculated'.

Tada!

reply to post by golemina


Re: Pink Disease & Autism link

(this is on topic, however tangical)

Very interesting!

It does seem that autism spectrum disorders have to do with a weak ability to detoxify certain environmental toxins. The toxic load builds up, and eventually impairs the developing psyche.

Ancestry of pink disease (infantile acrodynia) identified as a risk factor for autism spectrum disorders.

The results showed the prevalence rate of ASD among the grandchildren of pink disease survivors (1 in 22) to be significantly higher than the comparable general population prevalence rate (1 in 160). The results support the hypothesis that Hg sensitivity may be a heritable/genetic risk factor for ASD.

So the measles cases tripled.
What is the autism rate for the people who have measles?
A child recovers from measles in a couple of weeks the effects of autism are permanent.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by golemina

 

SIDS is not caused by vaccines. Such a stupid thing to say. You know your kids won't get into school without vaccines don't you? Are you prepared to home school them? Not from what I've read so far.

Not exactly true. (In my state)

That is the LIE school administrators push...

But when you scratch off the nonsense... It's not the truth.

Read the fine print... and Luke... let the farce be with you.

(Use your imagination. Hint: Worse case, LOTS of exemptions. )

What do you have against 'home schooling'?

I 'home schooled' my kids...

Last one graduated at 17...

from the U.



'Public' schools... there is a laugher!

VforVendettea

A child recovers from measles in a couple of weeks the effects of autism are permanent.

*facepalm"


Youd do know there is around a 1% complication rate? Complications that include blindness, Coma and 0.3% chance of death?


Yet there is no proof (or hard proof) of Austism being linked with measels? Just the rantings of doctor who has been discredited and newspapers that cant be trusted to write about a celebritie wedding let alone medical issues. Even if there was some link it likley 1 in a million.

crazyewok

VforVendettea

A child recovers from measles in a couple of weeks the effects of autism are permanent.

*facepalm"


Youd do know there is around a 1% complication rate? Complications that include blindness, Coma and 0.3% chance of death?


Yet there is no proof (or hard proof) of Austism being linked with measels? Just the rantings of doctor who has been discredited and newspapers that cant be trusted to write about a celebritie wedding let alone medical issues. Even if there was some link it likley 1 in a million.

edit on 9-12-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

Of course there is no hard proof! (of anything anti-inoculation)

Medical personnel will UNDER NO CONDITIONS record an incidence of ADVERSE REACTIONS!

So if the occurances are never actually recorded... then it never happened.

THIS is how medical problems are solved...

Just simply ignored.

It's all part of the CIRCULAR LOGIC mania... that is our 'medical' care system.



If you want to clear out a room of pediatricians...

Just walk in and announce you want to have your child tested for MERCURY poisoning (from their inoculations).

All that is left is cartoon clouds of dust.

rickymouse
reply to post by Pardon?

 

A strong immune system is one that can quickly and adequately deal with microbes and viruses. I read the article you listed, it contains nothing to justify your statement. This is what a normal immune system is supposed to do if it is not compromised for a multitude of reasons.

AI am way past that article, studying the interaction of diet, metabolism, body chemistry, and the basis of pharmaceuticals used to treat these problems already. I see nothing of interest in that article. It states that more research is needed to find what helps and what doesn't. The things they are looking into is what I am researching.

A proper electrolyte balance is necessary for a good immune system to work properly. So are the necessary immune system chemical stores and a properly functioning metabolism. Along with that we need energy to fight diseases. This gives a person a strong immune system.

Saying it either works or is weak is far from true. If we build too many chemicals and the body cannot properly moderate their use or identify microbes or viruses, it is not working as it should. Then the immune response can be problematic. Overactive immune systems may come from an off balance diet or from an immune system that is too strong...too strong and strong are different in my book. This subject is tied strongly to metabolism on an individual basis. If you do not get adequate exercise to stimulate the metabolism and excrete the overabundance of chemicals they can be problematic. Everything is tied together.

Spend some more time reading thousands of research articles on this subject then come back to me and discuss what you know, maybe I can learn something from you then. I am giving you a challenge to learn more.

The article says, in a polite way, that there's no real way to boost your immune system or make it stronger.
A normal immune system is a healthy one.
And as we both agree, if the immune system is compromised in any way then it won't react the way it should.
What that article basically says is that a good healthy diet is essential to maintaining a normal immune system and preventing compromise.

Electrolytes have nothing to do with the immune system per se and there's a lot of marketing around them which isn't really clinically true.
The main electrolytes are sodium, potassium and calcium in the form of salts.
These are essential for nerve and muscle function and also play a part in cell membrane function and as a consequence cell function overall.
If you have an electrolyte imbalance you will be pretty ill as the body will not be able to function properly.
Naturally if you are this ill, your immune system will probably be compromised.
Any brief deviation from the very tight limits our bodies have for electrolytes is transient and very quickly rectified usually with no need for any external compounds (apart from if you're very dehydrated etc).
Any major imbalance is more often than not caused by organ failure (usually the kidneys) and either in the acute or chronic phases urgent treatment is required or you will die.

As for the part about "building too many chemicals" etc I don't really know what you're on about.

Getting rid of chemicals your body doesn't need is pretty much the main function of the liver and kidneys and is independent of metabolism in so much as it can only process a finite amount at any given time. You can't make them work faster by exercising for example.


With the greatest of respects the majority of my working life has been in the field of human physiology so I do actually know how the body works reasonably well.
So I would suggest that before you dive in to the research papers, understand first how the body works and take it from there.

opopanax
I'm still waiting for someone from the anti-vaccine camp to show me a medical treatment, be it "conventional" or "alternative," that works 100% of the time (heck, I'll even accept >50% of the time) and has a 0% risk of adverse effects. As far as I know, such a treatment does not exist.

Of course vaccines aren't harmless. Of course there's risk involved. The rare cases where people do experience serious adverse effects from vaccines, however, should not be used to damn the entire idea of vaccination. I've heard some people say that even if one vaccine causes one child to "go Autistic" (as Rubinstein/Hiddencode would say) that all vaccination should be halted. Using this logic, we should just abandon medicine altogether, unless there's some reason why vaccines are special and must be held to a different standard than every other type of medication, treatment, cure, etc.

The idea that vaccines aren't tested for safety, or that they're barely tested, before being approved for use is ludicrous. If you believe this is true I encourage you to read up on the extensive process a drug or medical device must go through before being OK'd by the FDA.

The idea that no unvaccinated autistic people exist is also patently untrue.

>'The idea that no unvaccinated autistic people exist is also patently untrue.'

Really?

Based on what?

I've got one word for you... Amish.

Case closed.

>'I'm still waiting for someone from the anti-vaccine camp to show me a medical treatment, be it "conventional" or "alternative," that works 100% of the time (heck, I'll even accept >50% of the time) and has a 0% risk of adverse effects. As far as I know, such a treatment does not exist.'

Instead of speaking in vague generalities...

Maybe we should talk about specific diseases...

I'm more than happy to explain how to CURE most diseases with SIMPLE diet. Especially, the so-called 'degenerative' 'diseases'.




'Doctors' are amazingly clueless. The simply aren't equipped to recognize/deal with the fact that the 'disease model' is a failed paradigm.



They literally have almost no understanding of the body's metabollic processes... have no understanding of the effects of good nutrition and clean water... have simply no clue about the reality of the immune system (most of it lives in your bowels )...

So how can they possibly diagnose and remedy the body's deviations from health?



Specifics please.

reply to post by hiddencode

. Even just for the DPT vaccine 14 out of 100 are left with Asthma

Proof.? I have this

Article
Is Childhood Vaccination Associated With Asthma? A Meta-analysis of Observational Studies
Ran D. Balicer, MD, MPHa, Itamar Grotto, MD, MPHa, Marc Mimouni, MDb,c, Daniel Mimouni, MDc,d
+ Author Affiliations

aDepartment of Epidemiology, Faculty of Health Sciences, Ben-Gurion University of the Negev, Beer Sheva, Israel
bSchneider Children's Medical Centre of Israel, Petach Tikva, Israel
cSackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Tel Aviv, Israel
dDepartment of Dermatology, Rabin Medical Center, Petach Tikva, Israel

Next Section
ABSTRACT

BACKGROUND. The possible link between immunization and atopic diseases has been under intense debate in the last decade.

OBJECTIVE. The aim of this study was to systematically review the available evidence on the association of whole-cell pertussis and BCG vaccination with the risk of asthma in childhood and adolescence.

METHODS. The major medical electronic databases (Medline, National Library of Medicine Gateway, and Cochrane Library) were searched, and reference lists of the relevant publications were reviewed for relevant birth-cohort studies and randomized, controlled trials from 1966 to March 2006. Only studies that directly compared vaccinated and unvaccinated children, validated vaccination status by medical charts, and used preset criteria to define asthma were included. Data were abstracted by using a standardized protocol and computerized report form. Results were analyzed by applying a fixed-effect or random-effect model, according to the heterogeneity of the studies. Sensitivity analyses by scoring criteria were performed.

RESULTS. Seven studies of pertussis vaccination (with a total of 186663 patients) and 5 studies of BCG vaccination (with a total of 41479 patients) met our inclusion criteria. No statistically significant association was detected between either whole-cell pertussis or BCG vaccination and incidence rates of asthma during childhood and adolescence. This lack of a significant association proved to be robust on sensitivity analyses for BCG but not for pertussis vaccine.

CONCLUSIONS. Currently available data, based on observational studies, do not support an association, provocative or protective, between receipt of the BCG or whole-cell pertussis vaccine and risk of asthma in childhood and adolescence

A meta study is a combination of other studies, more accurate than a solo study. No link between pertussis vaccine and asthma.

I dug up the study I suspect you ve seen; Delay in diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus vaccination is associated with a reduced risk of childhood asthma

Having a good look at the study, I can tell you that:

Limitations of this study include possible ascertainment bias; findings not yet confirmed with the diphtheria, acellular pertussis, tetanus (DaPT) vaccine; and inability to refute the issue of early-life infections as an explanation for the association between delayed immunization and protection against the development of asthma.

Also causes of asthma; paracetemol, chlorine exposure, tobacco smoke, antibiotics in infancy, prematurity, lack of exposure to parasites in childhood, lack of magnesium. Perhaps if the study covered the reasons for a delay in the vaccination it would have more persuasive power. Could be the prompt vaccinators come from a lower income, have a sickly child, higher chance of asthma in family smoking parents and more My real comment is 'it needs more work to be convincing, seeing as there's other evidence that non vaccination doesn't reduce the asthma rate.'.

reply to post by golemina


Again Autism was about before the vaccines came out.
Case closed.

Oh and Amish? wrong they do vaccinate their kids.

blogs.plos.org...

combatingautismfromwithin.blogspot.co.uk...

amishamerica.com...

leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk...

Atound 65% do vaccinate their kids, some groups only 6% but they do..

reply to post by golemina


For the record, Boymonkey happens to be a friend of mine, that is why I spoke up.

As for your claim that inoculations cause SIDS..

Childhood immunisation has been reported to be a protective factor for SIDS.

Source 1

Immunisations are associated with a halving of the risk of SIDS. There are biological reasons why this association may be causal, but other factors, such as the healthy vaccinee effect, may be important. Immunisations should be part of the SIDS prevention campaigns.

Source 2

SIDS cases were immunised less frequently and later than controls. Furthermore there was no increased risk of SIDS in the 14 days following immunisation. There was no evidence to suggest the recently introduced hexavalent vaccines were associated with an increased risk of SIDS.

This study provides further support that immunisations may reduce the risk of SIDS

Source 3

It seems there is an awful lot of evidence to the contrary.

As for the actual topic here...

The risks of measles outweigh the risk of the vaccine.

Ear infection. One of the most common complications of measles is a bacterial ear infection.

Bronchitis, laryngitis or croup. Measles may lead to inflammation of your voice box (larynx) or inflammation of the inner walls that line the main air passageways of your lungs (bronchial tubes).

Pneumonia. Pneumonia is a common complication of measles. People with compromised immune systems can develop an especially dangerous variety of pneumonia that is sometimes fatal.

Encephalitis. About 1 in 1,000 people with measles develops encephalitis, an inflammation of the brain that may cause vomiting, convulsions and, rarely, coma or even death. Encephalitis can closely follow measles, or it can occur months later.

Pregnancy problems. Pregnant women need to take special care to avoid measles, because the disease can cause pregnancy loss, preterm labor or low birth weight.

Low platelet count (thrombocytopenia). Measles may lead to a decrease in platelets — the type of blood cells that are essential for blood clotting.

Mayo Clinic

The most serious complications include blindness, encephalitis (an infection that causes brain swelling), severe diarrhoea and related dehydration, ear infections, or severe respiratory infections such as pneumonia.

WHO

In addition, 1 to 3 of every 1,000 children who get measles in the United States dies from the disease.

In very rare cases (far less than 1 child out of 10,000 given MMR), children have a serious reaction, such as lowered consciousness, coma, or hypersensitivity (anaphylaxis)—swelling inside the mouth, difficulty breathing, low blood pressure, and rarely, shock. Even more rarely, children may have low blood platelets that can lead to a temporary bleeding problem that is described in more detail in the “Related Issues” section below. Since 1990, there have been 11 case reports of anaphylaxis in those who received the vaccine. Thirty to 40 million children were vaccinated during this time period. No children who experienced such a reaction died as a result.

Source

golemina

daryllyn

golemina

boymonkey74
reply to post by golemina

 

They have solid stools....they are healthy, they get a very good diet, It is just they do not have the capability to understand how to use a toilet, I don't think you understand the severity of the Autism some have at my place of work.
Put it this way one chap I look after can not feed himself, he is 40, he has PICA and is two to one 24 hours a day.
If left to his own devices outside he would walk into the road, he bites his fingers and must wear gloves on his hands when he starts biting. He has bitten two halves off his right hand fingers off when he was younger.
But he loves to listen to music and laughs when I sing..he enjoys my company as much as I do his. His world is about touching and listening, he has to have two to one care due to his behavior of pulling hair and not letting go and as you know people with autism are very very strong.
He is similar to this young chap.

Anyhow sorry OP for derailing a little

I jusy had to educate him...

edit on 9-12-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

You haven't 'jusy' educated anyone.

Cuz you're obviously too SLOW to understand ANYTHING about your 'charges'...

Pretty much falls under the category of NEGLECT.

You've got this fighting the good fight attitude and apparently sell yourself as I really care about my 'charges' schtick but you're pretty much clueless and don't REALLY give a hoot... It's about your paycheck.

I'm guessing you're one of those pink ribbon guys...

Is there a reason you are being so rude? Going by your join date, you have been around more than long enough to know that's not how we roll here.

You might get a better response if you approached it differently.

Boymonkey, it takes a special person to work in that field, I think it's great and I'm glad they have you.

Sorry it offends you.

Please join in and make any corrections to my narrative that is actually incorrect.

Quite a few participants in this thread have show the propagandist slant of this thread...

So when WE are accused of pretty much every defect imaginable cuz we are 'anti-inoculations'... it's OK in your judgment?

But when a person such as myself, WHO IS IN THE TRENCHES, actually cleaning up the 'medical' MORONS insanity...

Points out in excruciating detail their defects in logic, historical context, methodology, implementation, MORALITY...

I'm being RUDE?

I'm sorry girl... The truth vis-a-vis 'medical' 'science'... it's kind of ugly.

We denying ignorance?

Or kissing it on both checks?

edit on 9-12-2013 by golemina because: Missing word.

John Best Junior, is that you?
It's very similar to your style of "debate" if it isn't.

boymonkey74
reply to post by golemina

 

Again Autism was about before the vaccines came out.
Case closed.

That is very, very poor reasoning.

Please don't ever try to represent yourself in a court.