I have been thrown off more Fundy forums than you can shake a stick at.

Just for saying no more than that.

axeman you will never undertsnad the thinking I guarrantee it.

The literal interpretation of the Bible is what is presented. The Christian fundamentalist has every right to his views, its just when they impose them on others I have a problem.

It just seems to me that one can be righteous without denegrating others.

Originally posted by billmcelligott

It just seems to me that one can be righteous without denegrating others.

Indeed, Bill, it escapes me how people can claim to be righteous while engaged IN THE ACT of denigrating others. It simply amazes me.

[edit on 11/19/04 by The Axeman]

I can't imagine that anyone can claim to be the least bit religious while involve in the freemasonry "craft". This all stems back to your belief in an imaginary messiah by the name of Hiram Abiff. It is said that he was the builder of king Solomons throne although his name is not mentioned in any part of the bible. Now I am sure that this will create many responses labeling me as somewhat of a conspiracy theorist. But my question to masons is if you require no religious affiliation than what is the deal with the masonic bible? For those of you who don't know this is the blasphemous recreation of the Holy Bible to play in to masonic mind set. What's next, the Koran, The Hindu scriptures, The Dead Sea Scrolls or maybe the constitution.

Originally posted by SpiritBreaker
What's next, the Koran, The Hindu scriptures, The Dead Sea Scrolls or maybe the constitution.

This is about religion. Can you tell me why you added the constitution to this list? Seems like you have that topic covered in YOUR thread. Do you have an axe to grind?

My response about the constitution was just to make a point on how the masons use religious aspects to accomplish their overall goal. Which in my opinion is world domination. Now I know that no mason will ever own up to it and I like it more that way it leads to more interesting conversation.

Interesting conversations are fine, trolling isn't. Not that I'm accusing you of anything but a lot of this happens, just letting you know.

Originally posted by SpiritBreaker
I can't imagine that anyone can claim to be the least bit religious while involve in the freemasonry "craft". This all stems back to your belief in an imaginary messiah by the name of Hiram Abiff. It is said that he was the builder of king Solomons throne although his name is not mentioned in any part of the bible. Now I am sure that this will create many responses labeling me as somewhat of a conspiracy theorist. But my question to masons is if you require no religious affiliation than what is the deal with the masonic bible? For those of you who don't know this is the blasphemous recreation of the Holy Bible to play in to masonic mind set. What's next, the Koran, The Hindu scriptures, The Dead Sea Scrolls or maybe the constitution.

There is no masonic Bible, in the western Christian world the KJV of the bible is used in all theese Lodges.

Spirit is on the fundy tub thumping that Hiram , the legendery character that was the principle characters in the masonic theatre, where they insist that this builder who was murdered somehow is compared with Jesus.

The fact that Hiram was dead and buried nerver to see the light of day again and Jesus was buried and rose agin , to sit beside God , or who is God ( depending on your Christian faith ) are somehow comparible ? Beats the bejeebers out of me. Never met a mason yet that thinks anything of the sort, but they insist we worship some sort of constructed God.

Indeed as far as the masonic precepts are concerned, so long as the majority of the Brethren in Lodge want the Koran , or the Torah or the Bible then that is fine. Freemasonry dictates to no man what his faith should be.

what is the deal with the masonic bible?

can you please provide a copy of one of these? i have never seen one. i have seen individuals personal sacred writings but never a specifically Masonic, IE
Issued by any Grand Lodge, Bible. Methinks this would be a collectors item indeed.

It is said that he was the builder of king Solomons throne although his name is not mentioned in any part of the bible.

No actually he is said to have been the builder of Solomons TEMPLE, but then so is Asmodeus. as for his name not being mentioned, there is nothing mentioned anywhere between the covers of any bible i have ever seen of anyone ever voiding their bowels, does that mean they never did?
that would mean that they were all full of ......

"Masonic Bibles" as it were are simply King James Version Bibles with some Masonic information in the front of them, like glossaries and such. Mine is quite nice, with the words of Jesus emboldened in red ink for easy location...

I have another that I got when I became a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason. It's smaller and I like it because I can use it a lot more easily to find passages in. (My Blue Lodge Bible is just too big to use all the time).

As an aside, let me give a quote from someone who was criticising a secret society:

I hear that, persuaded by some absurd conviction, they adore the head of an ass, the basest of creatures ... The story about the initiation of new recruits is as detestable as it is well known. An infant, covered with flour, in order to deceive the unwary is placed before the one who is to be initiated into the mysteries. Deceived by this floury mass, which makes him believe that his blows are harmless, the neophyte kills the infant ... They avidly lick up the blood of this infant and argue over how to share out its limbs. By this victim they are pledged together, and it is because of their complicity in this crime that they keep mutual silence.

Everyone knows about their banquets, these are talked of everywhere,...On festivals they assemble for a feast with all their children, their sisters, their mothers, people of both sexes and every age. After eating their fill, when the excitement of the feast is at its height and their drunken ardor has inflamed incestuous passions, they provoke a dog which has been tied to a lamp stand to leap, throwing it a piece of meat beyond the length of the cord which holds it. The light which could have betrayed them having thus been extinguished, they then embrace one another, quite at random. If this does not happen in fact, it does so in their minds, since that is the desire.
-from Minucius Felix, Octavius 9,6 circa 200 AD

The "secret society" he was criticising was Christianity itself,... the early Church of Jesus Christ. He truly believed the false accusations he was spouting. They were no more true then than they are now. So too the accusations of Paganism, etc. leveled against the Freemasons are false...

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
As for his name not being mentioned, there is nothing mentioned anywhere between the covers of any bible i have ever seen of anyone ever voiding their bowels, does that mean they never did?
that would mean that they were all full of ......

ROFL

That's good stuff, buddy!

Originally posted by SpiritBreaker
I can't imagine that anyone can claim to be the least bit religious while involve in the freemasonry "craft".

That's a very interesting statement, considering the fact that many notable churchmen and theologians have been proud members of the Craft. Among them are Geoffrey Fisher (former Archbishop of Canterbury), Dr. George W. Truett (co-founder and Past President of the Southern Baptist Convention), Dr. Norman Vincent Peale (Methodist bishop), Dr. Joseph Fort Newton (Episcopalian priest), and Rev. James Anderson (Presbyterian evangelist).

This all stems back to your belief in an imaginary messiah by the name of Hiram Abiff.

Hiram Abiff is neither imaginary nor a "messiah". He was a celebrated Tyrian architect.

It is said that he was the builder of king Solomons throne although his name is not mentioned in any part of the bible.

Wrong on both counts. Hiram Abiff appears in both I Kings and II Chronicles in the Bible, and is noted to have been an artificer on the Temple of Jerusalem (which has nothing to do with Solomon's throne, which was in the palace, not the Temple). In the Hebrew Bible, Hiram's name is spelled "Khirom Abiv", which literally means, "Hiram, his father's son".

But my question to masons is if you require no religious affiliation than what is the deal with the masonic bible? For those of you who don't know this is the blasphemous recreation of the Holy Bible to play in to masonic mind set.

Since you are apparently unaware of this fact, allow me to enlighten you: a "Masonic Bible" is nothing more than the King James Version with a Masonic emblem on the cover. It's the exact same Bible that all English-speaking Protestants are familiar with.

Fiat Lvx.

[edit on 19-11-2004 by Masonic Light]

Perhaps I have opened a can of worms here, please forgive me. My intention was not to create a discussion on the merits of masonry or the merits of conservitive christian faith, rather I was looking only for information of a particular nature. I have gathered that the Catholic church, islam and some luthern denominations have doctrianly spoken out against the Free Masons, does any one know of any references I can review to verify the claims?

thank you very very much, this is exactly the type of information I was looking for, what a great resource that link to search the vaticin site is. Like I said, I'm not afraid to do the leg work, just wanting someone to point me in the right direction. When I get a comprehensive group of information together I'll post it along with the appropriate refrences. Thanks again.