It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Colorado's Masterpiece Cakeshop Must Serve Gay Couples Despite Owner's Religious Beliefs, Judge Ru

page: 3
22
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:30 AM
link   

suz62
This is wrong. A business owner has the right to refuse service and always has had that right. This is liberal politics. The judge should be kicked off the bench.


you do realize that you are talking about a gay person buying a wedding cake, right?...what would be your excuse for NOT selling a wedding cake to a gay person?...cooties?...and what is amazing is that it's because the owner believes in the writings of an unknown author in a 2000 year old book about what a mythical being said....
edit on 7-12-2013 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:31 AM
link   

beezzer
reply to post by KingIcarus
 


So you would be ok with someone forcing an Islamic caterer to provide a pork/bacon meal?


As it happens, this very question came up in the British courts a few years ago. It's a good one, tbf.

In that case, the Islamic caterer claimed that they could not comply with the request because - as a Halal supplier - they did not stock pork products. There is no provision in law (in the UK at least) for any kind of retailer to be obliged to stock X, Y or Z.

The same could be applied to a Christian supplier not stocking Islamic decorations or whatever.

Unfortunately, in the case of the bakery (or the UK bed in breakfast I mentioned earlier), they could not make this defence as cake is cake and a bed for the night is a bed for the night. I guess the bakery could say they don't stock Groom/Groom or Bride/Bride ornaments for the top though.

If it was me, however, I'd just lie and say I couldn't make the cake as I was fully booked. That's just me though.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:31 AM
link   
reply to post by Willtell
 


If he doesn't, then he should because I might want to go in there and buy it. It is his obligation as a public business owner providing a service to serve his customers of which I would be one, and if he advertises custom orders, then he is especially obligated.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:32 AM
link   
reply to post by beezzer
 


That’s right, they did, but when this happens the state has a responsibility to judge the rights of the gay couple against the rights of the baker’s responsibility to society and the couple.

The baker can appeal and go to a higher court

Remember what I said, it’s not a black and white easy thing to determine.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:32 AM
link   

Willtell
reply to post by beezzer
 


The problem with that hypothetical is that a practicing Muslim wouldn’t serve pork at all, he wouldn’t have it in the shop, and a non practicing Muslim would certainly serve it.

The baker made wedding cakes.
If he didn’t make wedding cakes then those people had no complaint.


I would request that they serve it.

Caterers don't serve food that they have on hand. They ask for a menu, and purchase food for the catered event.

I want a roasted pig served by an Islamic caterer.

If they don't comply, the state will then punish them, correct?



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:32 AM
link   
reply to post by jimmyx
 


No, this is not a gay person buying a cupcake. This is a wedding cake which is pretty much always a specialized, custom order.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:36 AM
link   
reply to post by Willtell
 

The arguments that people are using in defense of the shop owner are the same kinds of arguments presented in defense of racist business owners in the 50's and 60's. We ended racial segregation with the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which outlaws discrimination in access to public accommodations based on a ethnicity, creed, gender, etc. Public accommodations are any public or private entity that is used by the public. There are exemptions for religious institutions and private clubs.

If a business owner wants to do business with the general public, he doesn't get to pick and choose who is worthy.

It's that simple.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:36 AM
link   

jimmyx
.what would be your excuse for NOT selling a cupcake to a gay person?


EASY, do not need an excuse. Don't have to tell them why.. AT ALL..

Just tell them you refuse service, no explanation needed.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:38 AM
link   

starfoxxx

jimmyx
.what would be your excuse for NOT selling a cupcake to a gay person?


EASY, do not need an excuse. Don't have to tell them why.. AT ALL..

Just tell them you refuse service, no explanation needed.


Perhaps if they'd just done that, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


That's what I'd have done anyhow.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:39 AM
link   
Ahh religion
can you feel the love?



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:40 AM
link   

beezzer

Willtell
reply to post by beezzer
 


The problem with that hypothetical is that a practicing Muslim wouldn’t serve pork at all, he wouldn’t have it in the shop, and a non practicing Muslim would certainly serve it.

The baker made wedding cakes.
If he didn’t make wedding cakes then those people had no complaint.


I would request that they serve it.

Caterers don't serve food that they have on hand. They ask for a menu, and purchase food for the catered event.

I want a roasted pig served by an Islamic caterer.

If they don't comply, the state will then punish them, correct?


HA look at the disabled people getting kicked out of cabs for
having their medical sight dog with them.. Seems like every other religion
is up for grabs at forcing them to do things they morally object too.
BUT when it comes to Islamic beliefs they are WELL respected..



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:40 AM
link   
This is the thing. Being Gay is a Alternative life style.

One has the right to pursue it if they want.

But being Alternative they should not expect everyone to support and go along with it, tolerrate it yes, not interfere yes but forceing everyone to accept it? No.

There are probably some alternative things about my life style, I dont expect everyone to bend over to support it or accept it just keep out my way and Il keep out theres.
edit on 7-12-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-12-2013 by crazyewok because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:41 AM
link   
And now,
After all of the drama.
Gay couples can go and buy a loogie flavored wedding cake any time they want.

It's like going to a restaurant where the cook just doesn't like you.

He's going to make a dish especially for you.

I guess it's a (moral ?) victory.
But I wouldn't eat that cake.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:41 AM
link   
reply to post by beezzer
 


But I think he would win the case because he doesn’t sell pork. How can you force a business man to sell something they don’t sell for whatever reason? That’s different from this case, since the baker did make wedding cakes in his ordinary business.

The same thing if you went to a Kosher Jewish deli and asked for pork bacon. They would simply say WE DON'T SELL PORK.

If you went to sue them over this I believe you would be laughed out of court



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:42 AM
link   
Hold on, are you telling me you can be kicked out of a cab for having a seeing eye / guide dog in the US?


Damn, that's messed up.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:44 AM
link   

KingIcarus

starfoxxx

jimmyx
.what would be your excuse for NOT selling a cupcake to a gay person?


EASY, do not need an excuse. Don't have to tell them why.. AT ALL..

Just tell them you refuse service, no explanation needed.


Perhaps if they'd just done that, we wouldn't be having this discussion.


That's what I'd have done anyhow.


Agreed, we are dealing with gay provocateurs here, and
religious provocateurs.. They both will not budge..
They need to get smart, hell even a GAYS ONLY bakery..
They have GAYS ONLY CLUBS/ BARS....



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:45 AM
link   
reply to post by starfoxxx
 


This is entirely false.

Muslims in many cases have lost their jobs, such as cab drivers because they won’t drive you around with liquor in your possession.

www.mprnews.org...



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:45 AM
link   

KingIcarus
Hold on, are you telling me you can be kicked out of a cab for having a seeing eye / guide dog in the US?


Damn, that's messed up.


YES, if the cabby (mostly muslims) who see Dogs as disease and death/unclean.
they can kick you out of the cab with your medical dog..

I get the stories and post them..



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:45 AM
link   

ketsuko
reply to post by jimmyx
 


No, this is not a gay person buying a cupcake. This is a wedding cake which is pretty much always a specialized, custom order.


yeah, I edited it...still, why would making a cake for a gay wedding be considered "condoning it"...the making of the cake has nothing to do with taking part in the marriage, they eat the cake after the ceremony, and after the signing of legal marriage documents. the "cake" plays no part in condoning gay marriage.



posted on Dec, 7 2013 @ 11:46 AM
link   

Willtell
reply to post by beezzer
 


But I think he would win the case because he doesn’t sell pork. How can you force a business man to sell something they don’t sell for whatever reason? That’s different from this case, since the baker did make wedding cakes in his ordinary business.

The same thing if you went to a Kosher Jewish deli and asked for pork bacon. They would simply say WE DON'T SELL PORK.

If you went to sue them over this I believe you would be laughed out of court


Do you understand how caterers operate?

I walk into their shop.
I say I want this type of menu.
I pay them.
They then purchase said food items for my menu. (Hence the word "cater")
They then cook said food to my specifications. (Hence the word "cater")
They then serve said food, again to my specifications. (Hence the word "cater")
If they did a good job, they then get a substantial tip.



new topics

top topics



 
22
<< 1  2    4  5  6 >>

log in

join