Russia fears that some pilots have fake licenses!

wow who said airlines had planes for traing?
The MILTARY sure has traing jets .
Public jets always have alest TWO pilots so traing a NEW pilot for aiorlines ovesly thye put a TRAIND pilot on the same flight with a co pilot who is training .
Really man do you belive thye airlines just use similators and say ok you passed now go fly that 747 to LA?
as for someone Totaly learning from a simalator how to fly ANY jet
well Is it impossible Probly not would you be able to use it to train all pilots No way no how not even a small number .
But even then A person using a simalator ONLY flying any jet .Better be praying LOUD
o Honstly i understand you play some simalator game so feal you could fly a jet I get it.
Jest be sure its a singial seater and away from any town when you take off so no one else dies ok.
I have Dyslexia dont try to pretend Ill ever spell correctly lol .

reply to post by midnightstar


I didn't say they did now did I, so stop putting words in my mouth. But if I can fly a simulator the aircraft is going to be almost identical to the simulator, or there's no point in having a simulator, now is there.

And yes, the military has training jets, but a lot of the newer aircraft don't have a training version (the A-10, F-22, and F-35 for example are all single seat aircraft with no two seat version), so the pilot makes every actual flight in them solo, which means that they use a simulator a LOT before going out and flying the plane. Then they train for various things, starting with just normal flight, and working up.

I've already proven that people that don't have licenses fly planes, and are quite capable of doing it, so your argument that they can't is moot. Again, go back and actually read the articles I linked. One of those people was an engineer who flew a 737 for 13 YEARS before he was finally caught and arrested.

yes zap I know .did it ever accor to you the enginerr who did that was trained just the same way a Regular trainger pilot would be?? HUMM ?
yes he when in claming he had the Lisence even with that even with hours of flight A NEW Pilot will always be put with another alest for a few flights on teh4 smallest of jets .
and again Almost all Public jets HAVE TWO count that zap TWO pilots your boy the enginerr was Rarly flying solo.
As for some miltary jets Having no trainor Sure why the heck would they need a trainor for each of the F type of jets ?
Guys been traind say with a f 14 would no dought be able to fly a f 15 Still every one INCLUDING your enginerr were TRAINED on a real jet not just a simalator.
dude thinks he wants to be a pilot ok uses simalator Ok gets fake licance ok.
goes to place highiring pilots says Heres my licance OK now gets put in with experiance PILOTS .
Now GET REAL flying time experience Thus becoming A real pilot alest In have REAL experance .
At NO time did this person SOLO a REAL jet straght from a simalator .
fake liance or not miltary or not new jet with no trainor NO WAY He will defintly have MANY real time flyght hours as compation for new jets umong pilots is firece THEY ALL want to be the first to fly teh new jet lol Only teh best of teh best gte to have first shot

reply to post by midnightstar


You think an F-22 pilot doesn't go straight from the simulator to an F-22?

Of course a lot of these people have flying experience, again, where has anyone said they had zero flight experience. But there's a hell of a lot of difference between "I have 100 hours in a Piper Cub" and "Yes, I'm a licensed pilot". You really shouldn't put words in people's mouths you know. It's a bad habit and can get you in trouble.

yes a simalator can teach quite alot about flying a jet Heck maybe enough that lets say a guy was on a jet teh pilot dies said guy with ONLY simalator takes over .
Lands plane on tv HERO passanger saves every one.
Except said plane has two pilots Bummer No one fake licance or not will get a job as a pilot and be giving a passanger jet as a solo as for miltary way to much compation among pilots for a fake licance holder to just get solo the day he walks up to jet .
and of corse milatry wil check flight hours befor SOLING qany JET you better dang sure be good.
compation for flights is FIRCE

reply to post by midnightstar


Maybe you should go back and read again. NO ONE has said that they had zero flight time. They're being investigated for fake licenses, which means they didn't complete their training, but had a license that said they did. There's a HUGE difference there.

straght from a simalator NO real time flight experance in any jet solo f 22 NOPE if you say other wise prove it1
so you have a licance for a prop ? cool then why are you having this debate? You should be well aware NO ONE GOES SOLO f 22 f14 what ever WITH OUT trainer time in a REAL jet.heck You DIDNOT got solo right from a simolater .
You have proff the miltary would solo a pilot with NO real inflight experance STRANGHT from simlator to any JET solo Show it.

reply to post by midnightstar


Again, show me ONCE where someone said that a person with no flight time went from a simulator straight into a plane and flew it. No one has said that, not once.

wow Ok let me get this straght you agree no matter if the guy has a fake liance he would still recive flight traing in a real plane ?
Way I kept reading your replys they implyed a guy could USING ONLY a simalator SOLO a jet no problem.
so If i missed something sorry as for your licance congrads always wanted to get one.
Never would think of using simalator alone lol for first solo flight.
mite be ok probly crash . lol

reply to post by midnightstar


The licenses are fake. That doesn't mean that they can't fly a plane. Although there have been instances of people flying planes with no training but simulator training. An ANA flight (747) was hijacked and the pilot killed, and flown by a kid that had no flight training but MS FlightSim. The people with the fake licenses were hired by real airlines, and trained on real planes, and type rated on real planes. But a lot of their learning was from simulators.

well of corse simalators are great save lots of time .
Never ment to imply other wise as for someone who only had simalator landing a jet in emerangcy .
well sure grante controll tower was giving second by second instructions .
Didnt think it was impossibly but sure would get in said jet if I knew was only simalator time pilot lol

Wrabbit2000
This, fresh off the AP wire today and quite a thing to consider....I must say. This isn't just talking pilots flying cargo in single seater hops around Russia. If only it were....

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian investigators are searching the state aviation agency to see if some pilots may have fake licenses — part of an investigation into a plane crash last month that killed all 50 people on board.

Markin said there were reasons to believe that the pilot who sent the Boeing 737 into a near-vertical dive after an aborted first landing attempt had received his license illegally in a small training center that was no longer functioning.

Source

Getting your own pilot's license in an illegal, small training center has to be an automatic nomination for Darwin Award.

But Russia, of course.

reply to post by midnightstar


You know what is interesting to see? Check the stats around the world for various national Air Forces and what time their pilots average for time actually flying real aircraft. It's shockingly low in some places. I'd found that when looking at some of the impressive airframes North Korea has (not many of them, but they do have a few worthy of showing) and someone directed me to look up how little anyone gets to fly one.

Simulators seem to make some actual national defense policies, for lack of ability or resources to allow pilots real flight time.

You know what was real sobering to me? I recently looked to see what it required to be a Driver Instructor (18 wheeler type) at the school I'm attending for my degree and it wasn't accident free years or good background and work history in trucking ....it was familiarity with simulators. (sigh) Think of that the next time you're next to a truck in a snow storm.

It's rather amusing reading this thread I'm going to offer up some actual knowledge about computer generated flight simulators, such as Microsoft flight simulator which I personally have over 3000 hours of flight time using. But I offer up that I have flown in actual airplanes but could never afford to do it myself, it's very expensive to do and if you don't have the financial resources, you are relegated to simulators. In a computer generated flight simulator you can learn to fly anything from an ultra light to a glider to a beechcraft to a Lear jet to a crj700 to a 747 to an fa18 hornet , the kneeboard in the simulators is the exact kneeboard that you will find in each and everyone of these aircraft. For the most part of it flying one airplane is no different than flying any other airplane it is more about understanding the mechanics of flight, understanding things like lift , thrust weight and drag. There are prop engines, and turbine jets, both have their own dynamic. There are taildraggers and tripod style. Tail draggets are more difficult than tripod. Taking of and flying is not difficult to learn landing is. There is taking of and landing on a runaway and taking of and landing on an aircraft carrier, clearly taking of and landing on an aircraft carrier, is way more difficult to learn as there is the dynamic of water in that equation. Flying a helicopter is a unique challenge of its own to learn. In the computerized simulators there are missions that you fly to learn all of the possible scenarios that one can encounter in flight such as stalling, engine failure, multiple engine failure, adverse weather, fighter jets that are damaged in combat learning to thread a needle with a Lear jet , learning about thermals,understanding omnidirectional radios, reading and interpreting your instrument cluster, I could go on for hours explaining these concepts, but I'll not bore you with all of that. What I will tell you is that you can in fact learn to fly real airplanes in a computer generated simulator, the simulators are unbelievabley realistic, all the way down to feeling wind pressure on the flaps in the joystick, when taking of and flying. With the thousands of hours that I have in simulator time I could easily walk up to just about any airplane sit down in the cockpit and fly it. However the faa would never allow me to do that. obtaining your licences comes in stages 40 hours of classroom and 40 hours of flight, time in a Cessna just to get your basic license, costs approximately $10,000.00, the next stage is I think islearning to fly on instruments alone, tthat stage is approximately double what the basic is. Then there is turbine jet, commercial license , passenger license, and commercial passenger jet.these licenses are progressively more difficult to obtain and equally expensive to obtain. But I assure you when you progress through the stages in a simulator program you even begin to learn stunt flying, like what a hammerhead is flying in formation, racing and other skills, everyone of these skills can be learned in a simulator and moved easily into an actual aircraft. I hope that much offers up a reasonable knowledge on the dynamics of flight, cause I really don't feel like spending all night typing an all out in depth description on the mechanics and dynamics of flight, but it at least offers a true life experience on someone who had spent thousands of hours in a simulator because I can't afford a real airplane.

reply to post by DonVoigt

Hi, other Flight Sim fan !!


You are right, about the skills that we can get with Flight Sim !!

When I started my licence in CYHU, the FIRST time I did pilot the
Cessna 150, I did take off and did land it WITHOUT the instructor
touching the controls !!

Our instructors, of my brother and me, told us that we, who did fly
with FS, it makes a BIG difference in our speed in learning !!

Blue skies.

There is big one thing missing from sim piloting though, you don't get the physical experience of a real aircraft. Personally, I find sims sorta fun. (FlightGear and some of the combat style sims.) But I find the real thing (particularly with free-fall conditions) is a bit of sensory overload. Honestly, you don't want somebody turning green at the controls of a real aircraft unless there's no other option.

But in the cases mentioned it might be type qualifications rather than general flight experience being faked. Some stuff you can get away with in a prop plane wont work so great in a jet. So you still need real flight hours under instruction to learn the right way. You might think sims are good enough, but some sims aren't that accurate and will let you get away with some rather cheesy stuff. You might learn some things where it's unwise and unsafe to fly a real aircraft like that. For instance, in real life some of the larger aircraft you have to land on airbrake because the engines don't spool up fast enough. It's necessary to keep the power up and if you need to divert you release the airbrake and the engines are where you want them to regain speed quickly. But in a sim doing it the wrong way is no big whoop because conveniently there is "instant thrust". (And helicopters are even worse with the stupid things you could get away with in a sim that would quickly kill you in real life. Yet they're more than fun if you take it for entertainment value than anything serious.)

If things are going to be that bad, not saying they will, but it
might be nice as a passenger to know how many hours & what kind of
aircraft the pilot has experience with flying prior to booking.

Probably more trouble than it's worth, just trying to look after the average
citizen & keeping safe as possible. I HATE flying & I think it's more about not
being in control.

I don't know it was just an idea..

Cheers
Ektar