We Are All Religious

reply to post by nixie_nox

Being "religious" means that you believe in a god or gods and follow rules of that religion or take vows.

Sports fans, music fans and supporters of political parties all do that. Uniforms, colours, banners, chants, ritual gestures and movements, a liturgy — it's all there. What's missing?

InTheLight
If we are in an eternal present than it cannot be unfolding, perhaps realized, if indeed that is the truth, or perhaps your truth.

Do you ever move outside the present? Try it now - go 2 minutes back in time or forward. The present is constantly changing and it gives the impression of time but have you ever been able to say 'it is not now'?

Itisnowagain

InTheLight
If we are in an eternal present than it cannot be unfolding, perhaps realized, if indeed that is the truth, or perhaps your truth.

Do you ever move outside the present? Try it now - go 2 minutes back in time or forward. The present is constantly changing and it gives the impression of time but have you ever been able to say 'it is not now'?

Cannot you feel time flowing? If you do not believe time exists then that is your perogative, but it is also others' perogative to delve deeper into other theories instead of stopping and clinging onto any one set belief.

Does humanity continue eating apples from the tree of knowledge, thus rejecting God over and over again?

As an atheist, I talk about the idea of "God" because while I may not agree with any particular representation of understanding of such a concept as observed in today's world or many previous cultures, certain elements may actually point in a direction which would prove fruitful to finding out the actual answers to the questions we're trying to ask.

AfterInfinity
As an atheist, I talk about the idea of "God" because while I may not agree with any particular representation of understanding of such a concept as observed in today's world or many previous cultures, certain elements may actually point in a direction which would prove fruitful to finding out the actual answers to the questions we're trying to ask.

That's an interesting notion, which elements in particular?

AfterInfinity
As an atheist, I talk about the idea of "God" because while I may not agree with any particular representation of understanding of such a concept as observed in today's world or many previous cultures, certain elements may actually point in a direction which would prove fruitful to finding out the actual answers to the questions we're trying to ask.

Isn't the question we're all asking... what is the point of it all?

And if that's the case... learing is actually the point...

Isn't it?

reply to post by Akragon


Haven't I said that our greatest power as the human species is the ability to ascribe or detract meaning according to, or regardless of, the inherent qualities in any idea or object? The point is that we create a point. The miracle of free will is that we don't need ideas to be handed to us on a platter. We can craft our own ideas. We can come up with a thought and enact that thought and change a community or a process or the world through it. We are literally able to change the future due to the simple act of thinking for ourselves.

That's the point. But in my opinion, that doesn't make me religious because I am making decisions based on myself and those around me, rather than some ultimate truth that invariably demands the same result of all of existence for some concept of singularity. My power to "create" is focused on living a life of satisfaction while also reflecting the needs of those who contribute to that satisfaction, rather than focusing on a life of reflection one single ideal regardless of how it affects myself or others.

InTheLight

Itisnowagain

InTheLight
If we are in an eternal present than it cannot be unfolding, perhaps realized, if indeed that is the truth, or perhaps your truth.

Do you ever move outside the present? Try it now - go 2 minutes back in time or forward. The present is constantly changing and it gives the impression of time but have you ever been able to say 'it is not now'?

Cannot you feel time flowing? If you do not believe time exists then that is your perogative, but it is also others' perogative to delve deeper into other theories instead of stopping and clinging onto any one set belief.

Maybe the majority of people have bought into the belief that they are moving through time. If the belief in time had not been bought into there would be no one lost and confused.
Can you sit there now and feel time flowing? Do you experience time? Hasn't everything you have ever experienced happened within your presence?
So it seems that you are ever present - maybe it has never been noticed.
You are ever present and aware.

InTheLight
Does humanity continue eating apples from the tree of knowledge, thus rejecting God over and over again?

Time cannot exist without the mind - without thought (knowledge) - where is time now? Can you hear the future? Or smell the past? Time is knowledge.
Thought will speak about another time but it speaks presently and is heard presently.
Thought whispers about 'a someone in time' which builds an imaginary idol which appears to be separate from all that is.
Only when presence is found to be all that is will God be known.

Itisnowagain

InTheLight
Does humanity continue eating apples from the tree of knowledge, thus rejecting God over and over again?

Time cannot exist without the mind - without thought (knowledge) - where is time now? Can you hear the future? Or smell the past? Time is knowledge.
Thought will speak about another time but it speaks presently and is heard presently.
Thought whispers about 'a someone in time' which builds an imaginary idol which appears to be separate from all that is.
Only when presence is found to be all that is will God be known.

I have been in the past through a vision and, yes, I did smell and experience much more at that time, not in my present time. So, I cannot agree with your philosophy in this particular belief. My realities and experiences are my truths, however that does not stop me from listening to others' realities. Who is to say there is only one truth, one reality?

InTheLight
I have been in the past through a vision and, yes, I did smell and experience much more at that time, not in my present time.

If you smelled the 'past' you must have been present at the time. If you were not there you would not have been able to smell anything.

Itisnowagain

InTheLight
I have been in the past through a vision and, yes, I did smell and experience much more at that time, not in my present time.

If you smelled the 'past' you must have been present at the time. If you were not there you would not have been able to smell anything.

edit on 6-12-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I was entirely present in the past spiritually but could smell and experience many things, however I was physically dormant in the place and time I left behind briefly. As I said before, my experiences are my truths.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Being "religious" means that you believe in a god or gods and follow rules of that religion or take vows.

I mentioned that following a God is akin to following a comforting idea—at least for someone who doesn't quite believe in supernatural powers. I think following a team is along the same lines, insofar as someone doesn't necessarily have any invested interest in any of the players, staff, or fellow fans. It is the name they are loyal to.

reply to post by Astyanax

So, any idea why we are all religious?

I'd argue that the creative explosion 50,000 - 100,000 years ago was also the beginning of religion. It was the theoretical beginning of cave paintings, creativity and language. It was probably around that time that man began to wonder and fill that wonderment with ideas. I would say it is all biological, but anyone's guess would work here.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

As an atheist, I talk about the idea of "God" because while I may not agree with any particular representation of understanding of such a concept as observed in today's world or many previous cultures, certain elements may actually point in a direction which would prove fruitful to finding out the actual answers to the questions we're trying to ask.

Plus it's entertaining and fun. But no atheist would ever admit that.

reply to post by Aphorism


I've admitted that before. What's wrong with admitting to having fun contemplating an idea I don't believe in? I like talking about Santa Claus. I recently watched "Saving Santa", an animated movie with lots of time travel elements that really had me pumped for the ending. Although the antagonists were rather cliche and childish, I enjoyed the premise and how it actually worked. They did a good job. But I don't believe in Santa Claus. Can't recall that I ever have. Maybe that's interrelated with my atheism, one leading into the other or whatever.

But still, I can have fun toying with ideas. I would even enjoy writing a short about God as I would see such a figure, if such a figure existed. Something similar to the portrayal in The Amber Spyglass. The implications of that particular moment really intrigued me. But anyway, yeah. I don't mind thinking about gods and higher powers. Awesome concepts to play with. And as they say, the mark of an educated mind is to listen without necessarily accepting.

reply to post by Aphorism


The sudden explosion in neurological circuits fostered an ability to make connections not necessarily reliant upon a concrete base, as well as an interest in exploring and encouraging such connections. Spirituality and similar concepts strike me as the exploration of the mind and all of its possible connections, much like pioneers in the west exploring the possibilities of exploiting the land and its resources.

reply to post by AprilFooseball

I can not answer for the OP, but "a god", Doesn't make my skin crawl. The idea of a god as presented in the bible although makes me physically sick, the god of the the Christian bible is unstable to say the least.

I would like to only suggest to you that a god could not be a god with
out being stable in the first place. That includes God. If you've stopped
investigating because you become ill. That seems very weak to me. Because
obviously it isn't a commonality in our search for answers. Besides once we affirm
that there must be a God. We must assume immediately, that he is what he is
( I am that I am ). And that he won't make your skin crawl or make you physically ill.
And if so ? I suggest that's on you not him. Because I feel an eternal life full of
boundless adventure, is what was meant for us in relation to him. And one way
or another thank God ! That relationship will be realized. God will have his way.

What do you think the cosmos are so empty for, they are empty you know ?
They were meant for us. But we can't have it with out him. Very basic really.
God is love and there's only one. It's up to you to know that.

reply to post by randyvs

I would like to only suggest to you that a god could not be a god with
out being stable in the first place.

Then clearly, AprilFooseball is declaring the "god" of the bible to be a sick, twisted, demented facsimile of something that may or may not qualify as a god.

Speaking of which, what is the definition of the term "god"? "God" didn't use to mean what it does today. In fact, it's changed a lot over the past centuries. What are the criteria for determining something as being a god? Who established those criteria? How were those criteria established? How have they changed in the past? Why were they changed? Who changed them?

There are so many questions to answer before just assuming what the word "god" means. Incidentally, the word itself is an extension of a word that means "to invoke", which isn't exactly a specific turn of phrase. It's rather vague and multidimensional in its potential applications, actually.

All in all, I'd say you're taking a lot of liberties with the qualities of an entity whose precise nature (and the process behind the determination of said nature) is not even close to solidly established. In short, you're assuming. A lot.

If you've stopped
investigating because you become ill. That seems very weak to me.

Did you stop touching hot stoves just because you got burned? That seems very weak to me.

Besides once we affirm
that there must be a God. We must assume immediately, that he is what he is
( I am that I am ).

Wow. Now that's an assumption worthy of the king of asses (hee haw).

Because I feel an eternal life full of
boundless adventure, is what was meant for us in relation to him.

Oh. Right. Eternal life. That crock of bologna soup. A prize designated for those who have no intention of living a full life while they have it. An insurance policy for those who have already decided their time is wasted on this earth. Or maybe a consolation prize for people who feel they deserve better than what the rest of us have.

What do you think the cosmos are so empty for, they are empty you know ?
They were meant for us. But we can't have it with out him. Very basic really.
God is love and there's only one. It's up to you to know that.

I prefer not to assume. That's a job for the king of asses (hee haw).

reply to post by AfterInfinity

I've admitted that before. What's wrong with admitting to having fun contemplating an idea I don't believe in? I like talking about Santa Claus. I recently watched "Saving Santa", an animated movie with lots of time travel elements that really had me pumped for the ending. Although the antagonists were rather cliche and childish, I enjoyed the premise and how it actually worked. They did a good job. But I don't believe in Santa Claus. Can't recall that I ever have. Maybe that's interrelated with my atheism, one leading into the other or whatever.

But still, I can have fun toying with ideas. I would even enjoy writing a short about God as I would see such a figure, if such a figure existed. Something similar to the portrayal in The Amber Spyglass. The implications of that particular moment really intrigued me. But anyway, yeah. I don't mind thinking about gods and higher powers. Awesome concepts to play with. And as they say, the mark of an educated mind is to listen without necessarily accepting.

According to etymology, an atheist is without God; you and I are still with it so to speak, meaning that we still carry that concept in our considerations, not as any foundation or principle, but as mere idea and play. Whether it's the idea of God or the idea of no God, it's still just idea. Very little differs but the content of thought. When one becomes bored with a television show, he changes the channel, he changes the content, but he is still nonetheless watching TV. What ideas one chooses to satiate the mind is a matter of taste. I would argue that the same happens with religion.

But still, I can have fun toying with ideas. I would even enjoy writing a short about God as I would see such a figure, if such a figure existed. Something similar to the portrayal in The Amber Spyglass. The implications of that particular moment really intrigued me. But anyway, yeah. I don't mind thinking about gods and higher powers. Awesome concepts to play with. And as they say, the mark of an educated mind is to listen without necessarily accepting.

If I could suggest some classics, read "Micromégas" by Voltaire. Some consider it the first science fiction. It is along the lines that you mention, except with god-like beings from outer space (written in the 18th century). It is an outside view of western culture made by divine beings. It is hilarious.

Of course, if you haven't read it already, read the Brothers Karamazov. The parable of the Grand Inquisitor is wherefrom this thread was inspired.