My Paul Walker Thread - Conspiracy?

boncho
reply to post by Komodo

 

Carerra GT crashes.

Carerra GT spinning out in a really easy turn.

-

GT3/GT4 Crashes 1:23 is interesting

Slight oversteer on GT3/Crash

Losing a tire causes crash

Keep in mind these are track cars and are designed/reinforced for crashes. Also, they mostly hit walls designed for car impact and driver safety.

Paul walker's car burning after crash.


Not the first time the car they were driving had an accident that claimed lives, in fact Porsche paid out to them:

In 2005, the car was the subject of a lawsuit after it claimed the lives of two men at the California Speedway when it swerved into a concrete wall. According to TMZ.com, the family of the passenger sued practically everyone involved and won $4.5 million, $350,000 of which was paid by Porsche.

www.contactmusic.com...

I'm sure you believe yourself to be pretty smart by posting those videos as examples of oversteer, and you then go on to say how they're designed to handle the impact as are the barricades they hit. However what you fail to mention are the difference in tires - road tires vs track tires - or slicks vs threaded tires. You also fail to mention "marbles". I'm assuming you know what they are in the jargon of racing. They don't exist on roads such as Walker and Rodas were traveling. Do they exist on public thoroughfares? Yes - on the side of highways. This isn't a highway.

In addition, the pics you posted of the other crashed cars did not show any signs of fire damage. Total wrecks? Yes. Fire and explosion? Nope. As for the payout in the law suit, I'm sure it was cheaper and better for business to settle and pay rather than fight a suit. It does not admit guilt or any fault in the design and I would bet the settlement stipulated as such.

reply to post by Bilk22

In addition, the pics you posted of the other crashed cars did not show any signs of fire damage.

I don't think you made a specific point about anything but I can at least respond to the above line. I already posted video, the car was on fire, there's video.

www.youtube.com...

If I post pics of crashed cars that have no fire damage, it means there are none with fire damage ever. (Your logic).

boncho
reply to post by Bilk22

In addition, the pics you posted of the other crashed cars did not show any signs of fire damage.

 

I don't think you made a specific point about anything but I can at least respond to the above line. I already posted video, the car was on fire, there's video.

www.youtube.com...

If I post pics of crashed cars that have no fire damage, it means there are none with fire damage ever. (Your logic).

I know the subject car had fire damage. Jees, what has been discussed here for 8 pages? My point was, none of the videos and pics of the same type of car, only a few of which were total wrecks, did not have any fire damage. A few looked to be in accidents that were at very high speed and probably faster than what the subject car was traveling.

I guess we all just have to make our own assumptions and determinations on this mast as in anything else in life. I see circumstances and the people involved not leading to the common theory. I base that on some of the prior incidents posted by you and others in addition to the available evidence.

reply to post by DigitalJedi805

pushed it into the tree at the right moment, and lit it on fire. All of the explosive components in this vehicle are in the rear; and the impact was almost entirely in the front-end. Too much doesn't add up.

The car hit more on its side and almost split in two, That is the impression I get from the pics, the front end is still intact

There is a turn that can be taken at high speed just before where the crash occurred

Fluid is seen before the tire marks, this is suspected to be steering fluid which locked the wheel and the driver couldn't make the turn at such a high speed without the power steering and locked up the brakes and split the car almost in two when crashing what seems passenger side first.

All in all I find it hard to believe that these guys were out hooning in a broken car.

No you see when you push machinery to its limits there are risks always involved,

Drive a car hard and chances of something malfunctioning or breaking increase quit a bit.

I find it very hard to believe that a simple mechanical failure would result in something of this magnitude.

mechanical failure wouldn't result in something of this magnitude if excessive speed wasn't involved.

If that is hard for you believe how could you believe that someone could push the car into the tree and cause that magnitude of damage?

You know you can drive a car faster than you can push it, Pretty sure that is why they put engines on carts.

I also find it entirely possible that there were motives behind someone creating this incident.

And they are?

Considering that nobody knows how fast either of these cars were going - I'm running with my assumption that they weren't driving wrecklessly.

For that damage at least a 100 kmh, witnesses heard the duo take off like they were on a mission, exhaust screaming as they took off.

CardiffGiant

looks to me like an explosion happened in the cockpot. the back of the car is far worse off then the front. you know, the part that hit stuff is in better shape.
the drivers side door looks like it was blown open.

i just dont see these experienced drivers/gear heads ripping this car up to 90mph so close to this event where there are lots of people and cameras around, especially if the car is not running well and thats the point of the drive.

someone blew this dude up. thats my opinion

edit*
i watched your vid komodo
carbon fiber chassis.
traction control
stability control
says the car is super responsive and dances around the corners.
superb balance and the large ceramic braes allow you to dig into corners faster than you would have thought.
in true super car fashion it is an EASY CAR TO DRIVE INSANELY FAST

but the pro driver loses control a block away from take off and the back of the car gets blown off.melted and the drivers door gets blown open.


the beastie boys are screaming SABATAGE on this one!!!
no way

edit on 6-12-2013 by CardiffGiant because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-12-2013 by CardiffGiant because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-12-2013 by CardiffGiant because: (no reason given)

edit on 6-12-2013 by CardiffGiant because: (no reason given)

that's exactly what i'm saying..

sorry if I was over zealous on my first reply to your post...but I'm so overly pissed off and mad over this..murder, yes.. I said that.. due to the mechanics of car (designed to take ultra high speed 120mph in a safe manner) and the drivers involved...Paul's friend Roas was driving the car, it was his friend's car (from what I've read) his friend.. used to drive GT races for Pirelli Tires......

Putting 2 & 2 together.. it's murder ..

BTW: the car can go from 0-100mph in like 6 secs .. won't take a block to get there

Laykilla

CardiffGiant

opethPA

CardiffGiant
as i posted in the other thread about his death, the damage does not seem right.
i wont shouldnt on if or why they were driving a car with issues. dont matter to me but still. maybe they were driving a car with issues. walker is a gear head. maybe he was trying to diagnose it.

About a week before my high school senior prom I fell asleep driving my car (1990ish Chrysler Lebaron), jumped a curb, hit a stop sign which woke me up right as I was about to hit a tree. I was going roughly 25-30 miles an hour.

How much damage would seem right to you for that scenario?

i dont know. 'hitting' a stop sign could mean a lot.
where on the car did it hot for one? i dont think that mattters either way.
as for your list.
a couple of the points have nothing to do with how it is possible the damage could be what it is.
what does price have to do with it? and horsepower?
horsepower dont matter. 45mph is the same in all cars, no matter the horsepower.

all you guys can argue against me and throw up all the links you want. its not gonna change my mind.
its my opinion. ive worked on cars all my life. had body shops attached to the repair shop i was in. seen accidents. seen the results. been in one.
in my opinion the car would not have that kind of damage if it happened how they said. bottom line for me

Stop signs and speed limit signs are made to lay down when they are hit by vehicles and do very minimal damage.

I was in an infinite that took out a speed sign -- 0 damage to the car, $118 fine for the sign.

Stop signs and speed signs are bolted to thin aluminum posts with holes drilled up the entire post, the holes are placed purposefully as part of design, to crease the metal at the hole and lay the sign down to the ground so it doesn't kill drivers.

So, did that speed limit sign do any damage to the car? Nothing but cosmetic damage to the fiberglass.

Now if it hit a powerpole, in order to hit the tree, it would have had to have been a "glancing" collision.

If the pole came down, as according to reports, the car would have been stopped dead straight away and never have made it to the tree.

It's also important to note that where they crashed was a straight away.

It's also important to note that these were professional race drivers and mechanics that were taking the car out for a test drive to try to determine why the motor was stalling.

I.E.

You don't go 100+mph testing a stalling engine.

Also... how did they lose control going straight? The objects they hit were just on the side of the road, so there is no evidence of "wildly" loosing control.

The accident is telling you they were going straight and were pushed off the road from the left side.

So either they were going fast and had to avoid a vehicle and veered off, or they were responsibly driving around 50 or so and were pushed off the road by another vehicle, both scenarios, the secondary vehicle fled.

Impossible to prove if there was a second vehicle involved or not, since the only angle on camera is from half a mile down the road and completely obfuscated by the tree line.

There is one other explanation, the car was sabotaged and had it's computer hacked, which would give you wifi access to power steering, breaks, and throttle, as well as "Choking" the motor out.

There are videos on youtube showing that all of this and more are possible when hacking the very car they were in.

Given the circumstances it would be illogical to conclude that they just "lost control" from driving "wrecklessly." It doesn't make it impossible, it just makes it the least likely scenario. This would be extremely unlikely.

As for professional drivers dying because of a sudden failure in the cars performance... How many died when the failure was on a straight away, when they were testing a vehicle they KNEW had ENGINE problems?

I'd venture to say none.


P.S.

That SUV in the traffic cam video from a mile down the road, is highly suspicious.

It comes into the frame from the left, driving in a hurry blows that stop sign, pulls into that parking lot and races towards the wreck.

The SUV was pretty far from the crash, couldn't possibly see it, if he heard and saw the explosion, why would you drive TOWARDS it, not knowing it's a car. It could have just as easily had been a bomb.

Also, what of that car that zooms off in that parking lot towards the wreck?

Who are they? Why were they there? What did they see? and why did they drive towards an explosion that they could only have heard/saw the smoke?

Nobody thought that was weird?

edit on 6-12-2013 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)

Agreed on all points..

I think the issue(s) that most of the posters that hold on to the conclusion of 'fast driver + fast car+speeding over the limit =accident' is, they just do not understand ..

1)the design mechanics of this car,

2)driving skills of a pro race drivers

3) and the combination of the 2

However, it does happen on a rare occasion but, to blow up from hitting a simple street sign?

And here we are, the obligatory conspiracy theory that every celebrity death has to have. I mean seriously this is why Conspiracy theorist have a bad name. everything that happens we have to jump to the conclusion that someone had a hand in it. Can an accident not just be an accident? it was a mistake, it was something that shouldn't have happened but did, please stop this and yes you might wanna take everything you are told with a pinch of salt but stop labeling everything as a conspiracy.

Sometimes a spade is just a spade.

reply to post by Danny85


Unless it's a shovel!

I just can't stop thinking about this whole situation. I have read this thread from the beginning to here and have to go along with some of the theories presented. How can such a car become so damaged yet looking at many other accidents involving this model of car, very few (if any) actually result in a full on fireball and consumed this car and the 2 occupants, Paul and Roger.

I have studied the images that exist on the internet of this crash and also many others (Same model etc.) and just cannot see how so much destruction can happen to Paul and Rogers car with no reports of loud engine noises (Which would have indicated high speed thus high impact = high damage) or any other logical explanation. I, as others here also have experienced losing tires, steering and brakes etc. but did not end up seriously injured or dead. If, as has been suggested here the steering failed resulting in an inability to recover from a bend thus striking poles & tree's etc. then I see no reason why Roger was unable to recover from it. Many race/rally drivers experience such failures and do not die from hitting a couple of small trees and a pole (which again has been explained as being designed to 'give' in the event of a collision to minimised damage/injury during collisions).

I have seen some serious road traffic collisions involving normal run of mill vehicles that have come off better than this GT which we know if pretty much constructed of Carbon Fibre and high grade aluminium, the material of choice for both performance and SAFETY! Carbon fibre doesn't 'shatter' during an impact, it is designed to disperse any forces if gets which is why F1 teams use it - Google formula one vehicle safety test videos on YT.

About the crashed car images, how come it looks like the driver’s side has been ripped open? The passenger side (Paul's seat) looks almost intact compared to Rogers side. I have made an overlay of a complete GT Porsche onto the image of the wreckage. Not great but hopefully you will see roughly how much this car has been destroyed:



I do not believe this was a result of an accident or any fault of Roger or Paul's. My belief is that some kind of IED was used in the Porsche, possibly targeting Roger for reasons that may be associated with his career/Ties to the banks. As has been suggested, maybe a bad deal or wrong advice. The thing that bothers me most about all of this is that we may never know what actually happened, all we can do in theorise and come to our own conclusions. I do not believe that if any was untoward and was found out by the investigators that we would ever know, money is power and all that. It's a damn shame what happened and for whatever reason. I was a huge fan of Paul's and the whole Fast & Furious thing. Paul, despite what some might say, was a great actor but at the same time an inspiration for many the world over both on and off screen. He will be sadly missed and never replaced.

It's bad that in the world we live in, we have to discuss such matters and theorise on why things are the way they are. We cannot trust what we are told but can never confirm what we believe because with anything in this world, there is so much BS surrounding the truth, it becomes too difficult to see the clear and honest truth. That's why ATS is here and that's why so many return here, we try to find the truth or at least try and get as near to the truth as possible (sometimes without even knowing it). Without such places as here, where would we go and how would we filter the crap out of life. I know I will get flamed for this post, be called stupid maybe even retarded but I have come here to do what the board was set up to do - Deny Ignorance and find the truth!

R.I.P. Paul Walker

reply to post by StarTraveller

with no reports of loud engine noises (Which would have indicated high speed thus high impact = high damage) or any other logical explanation.

How about watching some TV where a number of witnesses to the car taking off one being a female friend of Walker saying they took off like mad with the exhaust note sounding like a race car going off.

I, as others here also have experienced losing tires, steering and brakes etc. but did not end up seriously injured or dead.

What speed, where, what obstructions were there?

Now compare that to this accident, can you? do have the details to make such a comparison?

If, as has been suggested here the steering failed resulting in an inability to recover from a bend thus striking poles & tree's etc. then I see no reason why Roger was unable to recover from it.

No reason, humans are perfect and never make mistakes when conditions change in a flash?

Many race/rally drivers experience such failures and do not die from hitting a couple of small trees and a pole

Many race car drivers have wife's,

Many race car drivers eat breakfast with PJs on.

Many race car drivers have died from hitting trees and poles.

I have seen some serious road traffic collisions involving normal run of mill vehicles that have come off better than this GT which we know if pretty much constructed of Carbon Fibre and high grade aluminium, the material of choice for both performance and SAFETY! Carbon fibre doesn't 'shatter' during an impact, it is designed to disperse any forces if gets which is why F1 teams use it - Google formula one vehicle safety test videos on YT.

I hope you never work in forensics where it all the same too you.

A accident cannot be compared to another accident for results of the accident being investigated, one can gain knowledge of comparing two separate accidents but one cannot get results like cause by comparing it to another.

About the crashed car images, how come it looks like the driver’s side has been ripped open?

Coming in to the high speed turn/curved road just before where the crash began I believe the car had issues with steering, The driver had to compensate at a high speed and lost the back end by over compensating and this is where the car first made contact with a pole or tree at the rear end of the passenger side, the car spun and/or flipped wher it took most of the impact on the other side tearing the car almost in half as it came to stop after hitting ? was it a pole and 2 trees?

I do not believe this was a result of an accident or any fault of Roger or Paul's. My belief is that some kind of IED was used in the Porsche,

What leads to this belief, any evidence of explosives or just too much ATS?

The thing that bothers me most about all of this is that we may never know what actually happened, all we can do in theorise and come to our own conclusions.

why not wait until an investigation is done to conclude the cause and then you might have some answers and wont have to speculate to high heaven about secret bank deals and murder plots with nothing but a couple paranoid thoughts to back the idea?

there is so much BS surrounding the truth,

So why not wait till the authorities give us theirs about the crash and then theorize whether its correct or not instead of adding more BS to cloud the unknown truth that you are searching for?

Why is it when a celebrity dies, some dumb**s creates a thread filled with nonsense.

When a celebrity says something against conspiracies, they are demonized...say something good about them..then that celebrity is the greatest person to ever walk the earth and entertain us.


I find these threads to be disgusting. Using someones death to further their own delusions.

Why not go as far as using the local obituaries for your sick fantasies...OMG..so and so just died..do you think the government was involved...

Peter Brock also died and he was a Bathurst Champ is that a conspiracy???

No...

Bigger fish to fry...

RIP Paul Walker.

To people who drift, that is not considered a sharp turn by any means.

AthlonSavage
To all the conspiracy theorists the screen shot below is from Google map that shows the sharp turn on the street PW and RD were killed on. Now take a good look , see al the burn out marks, its quite obvious that the road they were killed on is a local haunt for people who like to put foot to pedal. Please stop the conspiracy nonsense.

reply to post by Zaphod58


And I call bull#....The whole anti-argument, or rebuttal to the OP's entire post rests on a fantastical myth that these very bright gearheads would take a broken car joyriding at over 100 MPH.... You aren't being stupid or ignorant, you are being naive...

It's unclear. What is clear is that if something hit a thin strong object like a tree or a metal pole, it's going to concentrate the force to a single point. The other thing is that sharp turns are a bitch when you're driving even at relatively normal speeds. The van that followed had to turn less. And there's no evidence of even a soquid consistency that even supports the prototype new birth control(meaning it's not even semi-reliable evidence). The skid marks suggests the person hit the breaks to hard at the last moment. This is similar to the train incident where the driver may have been sleepy and there might've not been a speed limit sign saying to go 30mph. The train was going 80mph in a 30mph zone in a sharp turn and skid off the track. Simple laws of psychics. But one point to consider is the quality of the breaks themselves. If they were rigged, that would indicate that part of it was made with an indium alloy that melts at a certain temperature, rendering them useless after a few seconds. Not to say there isn't a conspiracy, it's just that the evidence is fluid at best. Liquid evidence(not even remotely reliable). It's not solid(reliable) or even soquid(semi-reliable) evidence. The breaks would have to be examined. TPTB don't usually use birth control on foreign nations, they just maybe delay help for days and weeks when FEMA demands them to do it. The other point is the car itself. If it really could handle the steering, it likely should've handled the sharp turn. Maybe the sports car is bootleg, perhaps a tire was overinflated, maybe there is a secret, and perhaps the brake is partially rigged to be an indium alloy. Who knows?

reply to post by InhaleExhale


Seems you haver already made your mind up my friend, go you...

I have seen many 'accidents' (or at least the aftermath)- its my job!

I have seen many performance cars - its my hobby!

Believe what you're told - Yer good luck with that (Won't mention the 9/11 report) believe that if you want..

'If' it was some kind of hit, at the level suspected not only by myself but by others in this thread; do you honestly think we will read about in some report?

No?? Didn't think so

Perhaps you should watch the video of the design of this car, looks pretty solid to me with all that Carbon Fibre.

Anyway, for the sake of keeping my account I will leave it there, clearly my thoughts and ideas about what ATS stands for are clearly wrong. Never used to be the case, mine is not to conclude but to merely suggest and throw ideas out there. I haven't commented or dissected anyone else's thread in an attempt to look smart, no need - thought we were all here to deny ignorance - not to promote it!

A closed mind is like a parachute, useless until it's open.

Night Night all, working in the morning.......

reply to post by StarTraveller

I have seen many 'accidents' (or at least the aftermath)- its my job!

Hey me too,

difference is I have also been in a few, one quite serious.

I have seen many performance cars - its my hobby!

I have driven a few, drifted a few more, its my hobby.

Believe what you're told - Yer good luck with that (Won't mention the 9/11 report) believe that if you want..

Why?

Am I not allowed to think for myself? who tell me anything?

9/11? you just did mention it, its all connected, the reptilians Id say are responsible with their harrp triangle spaceship laser beam.

That about matches in craziness to what you just posted.

It seems you believe a little too much of what you see and hear.

Perhaps you should watch the video of the design of this car, looks pretty solid to me with all that Carbon Fibre.

No, perhaps I wont. I will let you wonder why even though it will never cross your mind.

Do watch videos for all your knowledge.

experience will give you the best knowledge my friend.

exactly!

and those tire marks aren't tires of a GT either .. and the GT isn't designed to drift ..

just saying..

Zebra501
To people who drift, that is not considered a sharp turn by any means.

AthlonSavage
To all the conspiracy theorists the screen shot below is from Google map that shows the sharp turn on the street PW and RD were killed on. Now take a good look , see al the burn out marks, its quite obvious that the road they were killed on is a local haunt for people who like to put foot to pedal. Please stop the conspiracy nonsense.

Sandy Hook anybody, or is just me who notices something completely, horribly, and terribly wrong with this page, and screencap, which I took myself.

Kinda Ironic, what two and half weeks after these deaths, the business which was owned by both Paul and Roger have announced they will close the shop down. Does make you wonder, if there was anything else going on we do not know about, with regards to the business.

Unity_99
I think its a murder, and its kind of ironic that Brian from Family Guy died by car, just a week before this.

I don't think it had anything to do with finding out about the event he went to, more something a little longer termed in the planning by a faction of dark hat ritual killers amongst our PTB criminals, a ritual death by fire to baal, and its not nice.

edit on 5-12-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

I agree with you here, I am not quiet sure why people are speculating at excessive speeds, when there is a video here to demonstrate that the car was not traveling at an excessive speed.

Gone in 60 seconds, how they love to play with their own story lines.