My Paul Walker Thread - Conspiracy?

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posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:37 PM
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So, I haven't found anyone putting all of the pieces together in a formulated manner yet - so here I go. This take is a perspective that I've been considering since the incident; and one that I can't seem to let go of for some reason. Before I start; I'd like to say that I'm a big fan of his work, and strongly support everything he gave back to the community, and his fans.

Now...

November 30 2013, Paul Walker leaves a charity gathering for an organization he supports, with a friend, in a high-end sports car.

It is rumored, that he had perhaps found out at that charity event moments before, that the organization was funding some below-the-board actions...

The post at the following link, has no credible sourcing, and is almost entirely negatable - but before we go and ignore it, let's keep it on the table. It states that shortly before departing the charity event, Paul Walker came to gain information about the organization funding 'hidden' birth control in inconspicuous mediums.

Seedy Business

It's probably best for me to say that I took this information with a grain of salt myself ... at first. Then I started adding some things up.

The Car
2005 Porche Carrera GT
- 550 Horsepower Naturally Aspirated, Mid Engine V10
- Front Tires: 265/30 R 19
- Rear Tires: 335/30 R 20
- Traction control
- Tire pressure monitoring
- 4-wheel ABS
- Engine immobilizer
- Brakes
-- Porsche Ceramic Composite Brake (PCCB)
-- Eight-piston aluminum monoblock (one-piece) front calipers
-- Four-piston aluminum monoblock (one-piece) rear calipers
-- 14.96-inch (380 mm) discs with involute (spiral) internal cooling passages

This vehicle is designed to be a sports car. It is designed to take hard corners at high speeds. The tires on this vehicle; are wider than on most of your trucks, the braking and suspension systems rivals many supercars.

The Driver
Roger Rodas
( As taken from Mirror.Co.Uk )

- Rodas was the co-owner of a car customization business in Santa Clarita, California.
- Rodas was an esteemed race car driver; having raced with Paul in the Pirelli World Challenge Series, as well as the 25 hours of Thunderhill.

The Passenger
Paul Walker was a notable car enthusiast, who clearly enjoyed the adrenaline rush, but most obviously had a respect for the sport in his personal life - racing on professional circuits in safe environments. Similarly, Walker also had years of experience as a 'professional' driver, and customizer of cars ranging from M3s to Carrera GTs.

A Moment to Recap
Paul Walker and the driver Roger Rodas, were both established drivers, and more than likely to observe safety - especially in a vehicle with the capability of the one in question, especially when the vehicle is displaying mechanical issues.

To me it seems unlikely that either one of these gentlemen, would be driving around on bald, or otherwise damaged tires - or in a vehicle that has other mechanical issues ( such as power steering, which has been speculated ).

Initial Speculation
In the initial response from law enforcement agencies, the crash was being attributed to the possibility of high speeds and racing - an assumption that comes naturally with the persons involved; however, it has been ruled out as a possibility that there was a race, and similarly that there was another car at the site -- the latter portion of which I am skeptical about - but will elaborate on.

Witnesses (Suspects!?)
Per CNN


Jim Torp, a car enthusiast who was at the charity event that Walker attended before the wreck, said Walker was smiling as he got into the Porsche minutes earlier.

Torp thought he heard a blast in the distance before the car slammed into a light pole, he said. "What the first explosion was, I don't know if their tire blew up, because it sounded like a tire blew on the car," Torp told CNN Monday.


Per 'The Hollywood Reporter'


"The whole premise of taking the car out for a drive was because something was wrong."

The person, who wishes to remain anonymous out of respect for the family of the deceased, was attending the event at Always Evolving Performance Motors and said Walker and Rodas weren't likely out to test the limits of the Porsche Carrera GT, a car Autoweek called "scary" to handle.

"Roger wasn’t the kind of guy to go max speed on a small street, same thing with Paul. These guys have respect for the car and they wouldn’t do it like that," the source tells THR. "These guys are business owners and Paul was a celebrity. They are responsible people. It was more like, 'What the hell is wrong with this car? Let’s see what’s wrong and go for a drive.' These guys were more like, 'That’s weird, the car is stalling, let’s figure it out.' "


Supporting Statements
Per NYDaily


“The race theory is total crap,” said a source closely associated with Walker’s race team.

“If someone pulled up and wanted to race, Roger wouldn't even entertain it. It would be ridiculous. It would be like an airplane versus a car,” the source said.

“I know Roger and Paul, and they have nothing to prove.”




Meadow Walker:
"When I was little he taught me to walk, taught me to smile, and taught me to never give up. I loved him even before I knew what love was. He was my hero. My REAL life hero! He will always be in my heart! It brings tears in my eyes as I write this. You're gone, but not forgotten! R.I.P Dad!


Further Investigation
Tire marks near the site of the crash may have indicated [hooning](
), but after further investigation it was determined that the secondary marks were from something with narrower tires, and the consideration that this vehicle was 'doing donuts' was ruled out.

edit on 5-12-2013 by DigitalJedi805 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:38 PM
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My Analysis
Jim Torp stated that he heard a loud noise, possibly a tire, seconds before the crash.

This statement raises a couple of questions for me...
1. How well do you know the sound of a popping tire at 200 yards?
2. Why were you paying such close attention to the noise; that you could identify the first sound as a tire, and then the second sound as the impact?

Next...

The vehicle in question is designed to be a sports car - I drive a 'sports car' myself - and know the stipulations that come with this. I've lost tires at high rates of speed before, I've lost power steering in a variety of circumstances, and my brakes have failed in some manner more than once... I am not dead.

A vehicle of this caliber does not 'lose control' and go swerving into a pole for any of the reasons being speculated. At a reasonable speed, a flat tire on this vehicle likely feels like a bad alignment job. A little pull to the right, if you will. I have literally driven on a flat tire for a week before realizing it; on tires far below the grade of the ones in question. A brake failure in this vehicle; means that your braking power is going to be reduced - there is no feasible 'wear and tear' circumstance where all of a sudden, you lose all of your braking capability - and if somehow a line burst, both of these gentlemen were well aware of how to stop the car - downshift, downshift, e brake. A power steering failure in this vehicle, means that you turn more slowly than normal; not that you can no longer turn.

Paul and Roger went out in the car because it was having mechanical issues - stalling, for reasons they couldn't explain. In light of this, I find it hard to believe that they were exploring its performance capabilities, as much as trying to diagnose the issue. Both of these men being upstanding, experienced drivers, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that in a 45 mile an hour area, they were driving at what looks like 100+ in a car that had mechanical issues.

All of this being said - let's re-examine my initiatial statement about Paul's outreach program, and some related evidence.

If the conspiratory suggestion holds true ( Let's play hypothetical for a moment ) - Reach Out Worldwide would be in a critical position if Paul had in fact found out about some such seedy business... If I were in their position ( hypothetically! ) - I would be looking for an immediate way to silence him before he had a chance to speak out.

Keeping this in mind - take a look at some pictures...

These are from the crash
Crash Picture

Crash Picture

This is what a front end collission looks like in a Carrera GT
Carrera GT Crash...

Now... I'm no accident analyst or anything... But it looks to me like there was a bit too much damage to the vehicle in question for it to be as simple as a 'less than wreckless' front end collision ( Still assuming the gentlemen weren't being wreckless ) -- as a matter of fact, to me it seems that there is a heavy amount of damage to the rear end of the vehicle that would not be so prevalent in this type of accident.

It has also been speculated that there was a delay of as much as 60 seconds between the time of impact, and the time of the ignition of the flames; and in the video of the crash, there is clearly a segment of time cut out ( even though the angle is miserable ).

Youtube

Conclusion
All in all I find it hard to believe that these guys were out hooning in a broken car. I also find it entirely possible that there were motives behind someone creating this incident. Similarly; I find it very hard to believe that a simple mechanical failure would result in something of this magnitude.

My guess, if I had to make one, is that someone sabotaged the vehicle, pushed it into the tree at the right moment, and lit it on fire. All of the explosive components in this vehicle are in the rear; and the impact was almost entirely in the front-end. Too much doesn't add up. And while I glazed over it earlier in this post - the surprisingly calm and collected post from his --15 year old-- daughter the day after the accident, seems like something a pastor would say - not a distraught 15 year old girl.

Take it or leave it - but deny ignorance while you do it.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:44 PM
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When comparing the pics like you did...

1. Was the Carrera GT Crash you posted second traveling at the same speed, with the same amount of weight in the car and did it hit the same objects at the same angle? After hitting an object did the car in your second picture catch on fire and burn up fully?

Since it's 99.9% sure that it wasn't then how is it applicable?

I have a computer , it died.
My mom had a computer, it died.
Clearly they had to die from the same thing because they were both computers.

edit on 2013pAmerica/Chicago3104ppm by opethPA because: (no reason given)
edit on 2013pAmerica/Chicago3104ppm by opethPA because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:46 PM
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opethPA
When comparing the pics like you did...

1. Was the Carrera GT Crash you posted second traveling at the same speed, with the same amount of weight in the car and did it hit the same objects at the same angle?

Since it's 99.9% sure that it wasn't then how is it applicable?

I have a computer , it died.
My mom had a computer, it died.
Clearly they had to die from the same thing because they were both computers.

edit on 2013pAmerica/Chicago3104ppm by opethPA because: (no reason given)


Considering that nobody knows how fast either of these cars were going - I'm running with my assumption that they weren't driving wrecklessly. Professional drivers in a mechanically failing car, and all.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:47 PM
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DigitalJedi805
Considering that nobody knows how fast either of these cars were going - I'm running with my assumption that they weren't driving wrecklessly. Professional drivers in a mechanically failing car, and all.


So if you don't know how fast either car was going then what's the point in saying "this accident looks like it had too much damage because this other accident doesn't have that much damage"



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:55 PM
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tl;dr

Guy crashes in a car, dies.

fin.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:56 PM
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opethPA

DigitalJedi805
Considering that nobody knows how fast either of these cars were going - I'm running with my assumption that they weren't driving wrecklessly. Professional drivers in a mechanically failing car, and all.


So if you don't know how fast either car was going then what's the point in saying "this accident looks like it had too much damage because this other accident doesn't have that much damage"


The point - is that regardless of how fast they were going, there are still a number of other indicators that would tell me that this is too much damage. If they were moving fast enough to rip the body off of the car all the way to the back fenders, A: they would have blown through that rather flimsy tree and probably Flipped, and B: the Highly Qualified driver behind the wheel was highly unlikely to be driving at a rate of speed that he could not control the vehicle at.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 04:57 PM
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What happened to our motto? Deny Ignorance? So far the only replies are rather ignorant.


Naaaaaaaaaah - I doubt you're right... I'll just disregard the research effort, and outstanding critera.
edit on 5-12-2013 by DigitalJedi805 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 05:06 PM
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To all the conspiracy theorists the screen shot below is from Google map that shows the sharp turn on the street PW and RD were killed on. Now take a good look , see al the burn out marks, its quite obvious that the road they were killed on is a local haunt for people who like to put foot to pedal. Please stop the conspiracy nonsense.





posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 05:15 PM
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AthlonSavage
To all the conspiracy theorists the screen shot below is from Google map that shows the sharp turn on the street PW and RD were killed on. Now take a good look , see al the burn out marks, its quite obvious that the road they were killed on is a local haunt for people who like to put foot to pedal. Please stop the conspiracy nonsense.




Well - if you folks at ATS are going to just write the whole thing off - I suppose nobody is going to acknowledge the potential issue; but before I give up on hoping that someone here is going to look past the simple answer - The Actual stretch of this road where the accident occurred is over a hundred yards from the nearest 'sharp turn'.

Disregard it; just as most of you disregard everything, but I'll be here not being ignorant.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 05:22 PM
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DigitalJedi805

The point - is that regardless of how fast they were going, there are still a number of other indicators that would tell me that this is too much damage. If they were moving fast enough to rip the body off of the car all the way to the back fenders, A: they would have blown through that rather flimsy tree and probably Flipped, and B: the Highly Qualified driver behind the wheel was highly unlikely to be driving at a rate of speed that he could not control the vehicle at.


The tree was the LAST thing they hit. They also hit a speed limit sign, as well as a light pole, before hitting the tree, so no, they wouldn't have been going fast enough to rip the body off the car.

If the car developed a mechanical problem it wouldn't matter how skilled he was. You can be the best driver in the world, and still lose it, especially if you're going almost twice as fast as the speed limit for that area.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 05:25 PM
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That particular car is a beast as described by most professionals.. Handles like a pig

Powerful yes

Just use Google.. It is your friend



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by DigitalJedi805
 





Well - if you folks at ATS are going to just write the whole thing off - I suppose nobody is going to acknowledge the potential issue; but before I give up on hoping that someone here is going to look past the simple answer - The Actual stretch of this road where the accident occurred is over a hundred yards from the nearest 'sharp turn'.

Disregard it; just as most of you disregard everything, but I'll be here not being ignorant.


murders require motive, he was an actor for Gods sake a guy that reads a fictional lines from a script in front of a camera. There is no motive, show respect for the dead by stop making stuff up just to fuel some fantasy or boredom you have.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by DigitalJedi805


This is what a front end collission looks like in a Carrera GT
Carrera GT Crash...

 


What, with another car? This is basic physics here folks, Walker's car hit a fixed, cylindrical object and all the force the car was generating was focused on a single point in the Tree (pole).

Below is a car that probably can't even reach the speeds they were going:






This vehicle is designed to be a sports car. It is designed to take hard corners at high speeds. The tires on this vehicle; are wider than on most of your trucks, the braking and suspension systems rivals many supercars.



Also not designed for front end collisions with trees at high rates of speed.



A Moment to Recap
Paul Walker and the driver Roger Rodas, were both established drivers, and more than likely to observe safety - especially in a vehicle with the capability of the one in question,


So was Dale Earnhardt Jr, along with being a professional driver. Still doesn't make him any less dead. (And countless other drivers that have lost their lives at the wheel.)




especially when the vehicle is displaying mechanical issues.


If you find out about mechanical issues when you are doing 60mph+ you have a major problem, no matter how much you know about cars. Let's be clear people don't give their cars a tune up every time they drive them.




To me it seems unlikely that either one of these gentlemen, would be driving around on bald, or otherwise damaged tires


High end tires burn out in a couple months compared to a year or two for conventional tread. Tires are burned out in hours, less than hours in racing conditions…



The vehicle in question is designed to be a sports car - I drive a 'sports car' myself - and know the stipulations that come with this. I've lost tires at high rates of speed before, I've lost power steering in a variety of circumstances, and my brakes have failed in some manner more than once... I am not dead.



I've written off a few cars myself, doesn't mean every time someone dies in a crash its a conspiracy. I could have just as easily been run over by a transport that missed by a few inches.
edit on 5-12-2013 by boncho because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 05:57 PM
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The only question i've got looking at the pictures of this wrecked car is:

How fast they were driving that they flew over the curb, hit the tree with right side and literaly broke the car in the middle ?



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by stolarz79
 


They were doing almost 90 when they lost control, and hit the first sign. They hit the speed limit sign, then a light pole that came down, then the tree.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 06:13 PM
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Ok. I know how. Look at the video from the link below. It is recorded by someone who was soon after the crash driving in the same direction as they where.
If im not wrong there are brake marks visible between 1 and 2 second.

Video recorded by someone soon after the crash

But... conversesion in these video is little bit strange. Don't you think ?



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 06:40 PM
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DigitalJedi805
The point - is that regardless of how fast they were going, there are still a number of other indicators that would tell me that this is too much damage. If they were moving fast enough to rip the body off of the car all the way to the back fenders, A: they would have blown through that rather flimsy tree and probably Flipped, and B: the Highly Qualified driver behind the wheel was highly unlikely to be driving at a rate of speed that he could not control the vehicle at.


Too much damage for a car that hit multiple things then burst into fire?
Except multiple resources state how fast though how hard that car is to handle.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 07:01 PM
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Before I go and respond to any of these specifically... Can any of you Source valid estimations of the speed of the vehicle? Because word of mouth from a civilian a quarter mile away isn't necessarily credible.
edit on 5-12-2013 by DigitalJedi805 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 07:09 PM
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jesus how many professional racing drivers have lost their life cause something broke or a tire blew?hundreds,you can,t sit and say oh these guys would know what to do and no way they lost control,really?

two of the greatest drivers in history lost their lives to mechanical failures,Jim clark and Ayrton senna so how you can say an actor and his friend would never lose control with loss of power steering or a blow out is beyond me.

your trying to make a conspiracy when there isn,t one.





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