"All that they tell you, do and observe" - Jesus' acknowledgement of the Pharisees

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posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 07:46 AM
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This thread attempts to clear up certain misconceptions that Jesus appeared to counter and dismiss the Old Testament law, and that Jesus had nothing to do with the Old Testament God who gave these Laws. A lot of my points are taken from another thread that I had participated in recently.

1. Jesus said the Law is to remain "till heaven and earth disappear."
Christians often quote Jesus' famous words "let he without sin cast the first stone" and claim it as "proof" that the Israelite Laws calling for harsh punishments were done away with by Jesus. The truth is that Jesus, using God-given authority and discretion, spared the adulteress to remind the hypocritical Pharisees of their own sins. Jesus turned the tables on the Pharisees only because he saw them as a bigger moral problem than the adulteress. It was NOT because he taught that the Law was done with as Christians claim. On the contrary, Jesus declared that the law was to remain until heaven and earth disappear.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Matthew 5:17-18

Don't tell me everything was accomplished when Jesus was nailed to the cross. Jesus said nothing about this either on the way to the cross, or after his resurrection. The idea that the law was done with is a Christian concoction. As we can see, heaven and earth are still around, and so every part of the law remains - according to Jesus.


2. Jesus constantly referred to the Old Testament God, Law and prophets.
Christians dance around the issue of the Law by claiming that the "Law" spoken of by Jesus was really not the same as the "Law" mentioned in the Old Testament, but something else. I've also come across some "Christians" who claim that the God of the OT was different from the One who Jesus called God (I'll address this point later.)

The truth is that there is nothing to prove that there were actually 2 sets of laws mentioned in the Bible... a harsh OT law and a softer law that Jesus referred to, as some people calling themselves "Christians" claim. There was only one Law, given by God to Moses, who brought it to the Israelites, which Jesus referred to. Therfore, it means Jesus also kept referring to the OT God who gave the law to Moses and spoke to the prophets.

It is also made obvious that Jesus was referring to the Law mentioned in the Old Testament when he said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets". If Jesus was talking about the prophets of the OT, then its obvious that he was talking about the OT Law as well. It's simply ridiculous to claim he was referring to the OT Prophets but spoke of some other Law. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if some Christians actually go on to claim that very thing.

Then we have Jesus doing the following :
- Jesus referred to the 10 commandments and the law (given to Moses by the OT God)
- Jesus referred to the custom of offering gifts on the altar (according to OT law)
- Jesus referred to Isaiah, Noah, Abraham, Jonah, Moses etc. (prophets who the OT God spoke to)
- Jesus revered the temple where Israelites worshiped (the OT God)
- Jesus acknowledged the Pharisees authority (who followed the OT law and sat in the seat of Moses)
- Jesus ate the Passover meal (food prepared according to the OT law)

So, Christians who claim Jesus' God was not the God of the OT, why did Jesus go around referring to OT prophets who the OT God spoke to? Why did Jesus refer to OT laws and custom? We see all those references to things we know from OT because Jesus operated within the existing Israelite Laws and customs. It is simply impossible to separate Jesus from the Old Testament God, the prophets, the laws and practices. "Christians" who try and do so are living in their own imagination.

(* I don't like using the term "the OT God", but I am just using it here to make a point that "the OT God" was the God of Jesus)


3. Shocker : Jesus actually acknowledged the Pharisees authority.
"The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. - Matthew 23:2-3

Jesus is known to have severely criticized the Pharisees calling them white-washed graves, hypocrites and what not. One would imagine that Jesus would have instructed people to rebel against these wicked Pharisees.

Yet, amazingly Jesus acknowledged the authority of the Pharisees, and instructed people to "do and observe" as the Pharisees said. The big question is, was Jesus being a hypocrite for opposing the Pharisees while at the same time, instructing people to do and observe as they said? Or was there a deeper reason as to why he taught people to do and observe as the Pharisees said?

Jesus called out the Pharisees on their hypocrisy, but even that was no reason for Jesus to dismiss the very Law that the Pharisees were authorities on. Much like how your country's law is more important than corrupt authorities, the Law of God was more important to Jesus than the human authorities. Jesus obviously respected Moses and the Law, and thought people to follow the Law, with a few tweaks here and there. Which is why he said the law was to remain, and even went on to acknowledge the authority of Pharisees, who were (unfortunately) seated in Moses' chair, i.e- as authorities on Israelite laws. Jesus instructed people to do as the Pharisees say. Nowhere did Jesus ever tell them to "do as they say, except the nasty bits".

We also know that the Pharisees were known to sentence people to death by stoning according to the Law. So if Jesus wanted people to do as the Pharisees said and if the Pharisees were obsessed with the Law... and if Jesus never mentioned anything about certain parts of the law not applying anymore....it can safely be concluded that Jesus acknowledged even the laws that required stoning.




posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Only the Law-Giver can change a Law,

Since Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, he reserves the right to change the Law,

He did not abolish the law, He supplemented the Law;

Matthew 5:17-20 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Notice in verse 20 Jesus says unless our righteousness EXEEDS that of the Pharisees and scribes, we would not enter heaven. we are called to practice the Spirit of the Law, NOT just the letter of the law as the Pharisees.

Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Jesus here is supplementing the OT Law of "you shall not commit adultery" and changing it to "you shall not even look at a woman with lust in your heart, or you commit adultery",

Matthew 5:31 “Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Jesus here is supplementing the Law permitting divorce, and saying even if you lawfully divorce your wife, you are still committing adultery if you divorce her and get with another woman, and cause her to do likewise,

Matthew 5:33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.’ 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.

Jesus is supplementing the Law here by telling us to not make any oaths, since we will be unable to keep our oaths because of our sinfulness, and we shame the All-Holy Lord by making false oaths,

Matthew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Jesus is supplementing/changing the Law of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" with "turn the other cheek", he is telling us instead of taking revenge to let God handle it, since vengeance if the LORD's, our job is to love unconditionally and to go the extra mile, not to smite our neighbors,

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

This goes with the previous supplementation, we are to love all men as ourselves, since all men as our neighbors, even those who hate us and use us, etc,

as far as stoning goes, have you not heard of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery? The people wanted to stone a woman caught in adultery, but Jesus rebuked them, this is reported to us in the Gospel of John, chapter 8:

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Notice how the Christ forgives her sins, and also supplements the Law of stoning, saying we are only permitted to stone a person if we are without sin? Since nobody is without sin, nobody is permitted to stone anybody. Only Jesus was/is without sin, and he obviously did not condone stoning. Stoning was used in a certain time and place for a certain reason, to establish the Children of Israel and the Law, but since John the Kingdom of God has been preached, and all of us men are living in the days of the Messiah's Kingdom, no longer under the Old Covenant of Abraham, we are now under the New Covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ,

Finally,

Jesus forgives the sins of a paralytic man and heals him, showing that He has the power both to manipulate our world and forgive sins, both of which God alone is capable of, but since the Son of God is the second Person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ has the Power to do both,

Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.”

6 And some of the scribes were sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7 “Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

8 But immediately, when Jesus perceived in His spirit that they reasoned thus within themselves, He said to them, “Why do you reason about these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the paralytic, 11 “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” 12 Immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went out in the presence of them all, so that all were amazed and glorified God, saying, “We never saw anything like this!”

God bless, and I pray you will read everything I have posted with an open and understanding heart and mind,

Grace and peace to all,

From God our Father,

and the Lord Jesus Christ



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 09:22 AM
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It's not as hard to realize, when you look for the metaphoric meanings:

www.spiritofthescripture.com...

And understand that the writers of the scriptures were gnostics. Its not an outer story at all, though used common features of the day at times.

The inner meanings of the old testament equal the new testament.

Fundamentally however they're quite different.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 

Take a look at the world around you, full of constant chaos, division and violence enforced from the top down by a carefully crafted devilish designed implementation. Do you honestly feel the worldly powers serving their own powerful 'gods' would NOT pervert scripture, including the words of Jesus to continue serving the same negative control agenda from ages passed?

You believe Jesus would have supported the actions of this lord and those that obey his command?...

"For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord." Exodus 12:12

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT

Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
"They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves."

More examples here of what Jesus denounced by exclaiming..


“Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil? Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.” John 8:43-51 (KJV)

www.evilbible.com...

So what happened to 'thou shalt not murder' there'? Or were the 10 commandments possibly outlined via another lord in amongst the many as history knows and the Bible itself reveals? Oh, the deliberate confusions inflicted on us poor 'serfs' to muddy the Waters.

If others desire to cleave to a mass murdering god as their own in praise, then they can have him. That is not a Holy Father. It is a blood lusting, megalomania-cal beast of burden.

There are gems however in amongst the twisted Biblical perversions (masquerading as holiness).
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Matthew 11:27-30

“The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” John 10:10 (KJV)
edit on 5-12-2013 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)
edit on 5-12-2013 by PrimeLight because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 10:11 PM
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sk0rpi0n
and claim it as "proof"


can you give the viewers the verse and quote from the bible where Jesus said this?

I am having a hard time finding it, but I am not saying I don't believe you, I am just a little new.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Simple solution to your issue

Jesus said their father was the devil... And also said "resist not Evil"

Problem solved if you understand his meaning




posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 10:34 PM
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www.spiritofthescripture.com...


Valentinus, one of the greatest Gnostics, had the utmost respect for the Apostle Paul. Could it be true that Paul, like Valentinus, shared the Gnostic viewpoint that the Biblical stories were allegories and not literal history? Yes, absolutely. Paul clearly states that the story of Abraham and his two sons “…are an allegory (Galatians 4:24). An allegory means “fable.” I don’t think Paul could be any more direct. Think about the story of Paul meeting Christ on the road to Damascus. If necessary, read it again. It was clearly a mystical experience, not a literal one.

It is sad that most Christians aren’t aware of some of the quotes given by early church fathers and church historians themselves. By their own admission they downplay the literal nature of the gospels:


...

“The scriptures are of little use to those who understand them as they are written.” —Origen

“The scriptures were written by the Spirit of God, and have meanings, not as they appear at the first sight (literal interpretation), but also others, which escape the notice of most. For those (words) which are written are the forms of certain mysteries, and the images of divine matters.” —Origen

“There is nothing so easy as be sheer volubility to deceive a common crowd or an uneducated congregation.”

—St. Jerome (Epistle to Nepostian, Lii, 8.)

“How it may be lawful and fitting to use falsehood as a Medicine, and for the benefit of those who want to be deceived.”

—Eusebius (12th Book of Evangelical Preparation, 32 chapter)


This certainly isn't a literal script, and the box they have us in by trying to enforce the fables is criminal.

Here you would not even use your free will, discernment and be able to avoid being contaminated by their criminal laws, that would be sin to obey, and what would this make of public opposition?

And how would that relate to a man who died in the eyes of the Romans, in the literal story, for breaking the law in the eyes of the law makers, the elders of Israel?
edit on 5-12-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 10:59 PM
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www.spiritofthescripture.com...


—Eusebius (12th Book of Evangelical Preparation, 32 chapter)

“We shall introduce into this history in general only those vents which may be useful first to ourselves and afterwards to posterity.”

—Eusebius (Ecclesiastical History, Vol. 8, chapter 2.)

I must interject here that Eusebius is considered the first church historian. He worked under the emperor Constantine the great, who made Christianity a legal religion of the Roman Empire. Constantine also outlawed Gnosticism around 325 A.D.

“And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course had done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived.”

—John Chrysostom (Treatise On The Priesthood, Book 1).


I think people need to grow up and not give their empowerment away, or follow bad orders. But keep personal integrity.



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 11:06 PM
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Mark 7:5-7

"Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

---What do you make of this?



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

- Bible, The Gospel According to Matthew, Chapter 22:36-40



As far as I am lead to understand,... Jesus was saying that all True Law is ultimately based upon Love.


 



Muslims teach that Jesus was sent to fix and correct God's religion; that's the whole point of being a Prophet/Messenger,... so don't tell me that Jesus felt that Judaic culture was unadultered and up-to-par with God's original message. Islam teaches that God has one religion, that of Abrahamic Monotheism. Each succeeding Prophet/Messenger was sent to guide the people and correct the religion.

Mr. sk0rpi0n, your very religion of Islam says that Jesus came to the Jews to help cleanse the corruption. Your thread, personal understanding of this matter, and attempt at a strawman is extremely lacking.


 



The punishment of death by stoning is not based upon Love. As I would personally forgive myself at the hope of learning and improvement, stoning is not based upon loving others as myself. So I feel safe to say that Jesus did reject the edict of stoning.


Assalaamu alaikum.



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 12:00 AM
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2 Corinthians 3:14-15

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart

**************************************************

Something else to think on.
edit on 6-12-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 12:57 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



The Old Testament says it is ok to stone people, and it is ok to get revenge (an eye for an eye). Jesus Christ taught that this was NOT the law he was referring to. The Law is Love.



"Do everything in love"
- 1 Corinthians 16:14




Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.
- Romans 13:8




Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
- Romans 13:10




For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
- Galatians 5:14




If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. - James 2:8



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 07:04 AM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



Jesus said their father was the devil


He did? Then why did he tell people to "do and observe" as the devils children told them to?
Do you not see a problem in that?

Jesus said their father was the devil, NOT because they were literally fathered by the devil, but because they were given in to sin and evil, while appearing holy on the outside.



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by godlover25
 



as far as stoning goes, have you not heard of Jesus and the woman caught in adultery?


See point #1 in the OP.

The rest of what you said does not answer the question as to why Jesus asked people to do and observe as the Pharisees, who he otherwise accused of being white-washed tombs etc? Can you answer this question directly ?



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 07:14 AM
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sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Akragon
 



Jesus said their father was the devil


He did? Then why did he tell people to "do and observe" as the devils children told them to?
Do you not see a problem in that?

Jesus said their father was the devil, NOT because they were literally fathered by the devil, but because they were given in to sin and evil, while appearing holy on the outside.



And for the second time I tell you... read the entire chapter...

He said resist not evil... do what others ask of you...

in following their laws he was keeping them safe from persecution... clearly breaking any laws meant death at that time....

sigh...



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 07:35 AM
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reply to post by Sahabi
 


Jesus was saying that all True Law is ultimately based upon Love.


So does this mean Jesus permitted men who "love" their neighbors wives to have an affair with them?
I mean, after all , Jesus preached this magical, fuzzy, nebulous thing called love, right?

Wrong. Which is why Christians struggle to come up with a straight answer. They want it BOTH ways. Here is the exact quote and explanation, if you are interested.

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.
-Matthew 22: 36-40


Jesus saying that the law hung on those 2 commandments does NOT mean the law was reduced to just those 2 commandments.

Jesus meant that if one truly loved God, he would do all that the law requires of him to serve God.
And if one truly loved his neighbor, he would do all that the law requires of him towards his neighbor.



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 07:38 AM
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reply to post by Unity_99
 



Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

---What do you make of this?


That is for the Christians to figure out.

My question is, what parts of the Bible are the "commandments of men"?

Its a genuine problem for Christians (at least the ones who are interested in learning).....

The problem is that Jesus accused the Pharisees (white-washed tombs) of teaching the commandments of men. YET, Jesus taught people to do and observe as the Pharisees tell them.



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Moses is the Law Giver yo, God came and taught the Jews of the time that it was a perversion, the first perversion which predated the Catholic Church's perversion and profit from God's word.

God set em straight man... the people knew that the Pharisees were corrupt, but what could they do yo, lose their lives for breaking a corruption of the societal rules of the time?

God set em all straight, as did the Reformation to the Catholic Church.

who's next?

PS; you gonna dis me on my question yo?

edit on 6-12-2013 by SisyphusRide because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 



So does this mean Jesus permitted men who "love" their neighbors wives to have an affair with them?
I mean, after all , Jesus preached this magical, fuzzy, nebulous thing called love, right?


In an effort to defend your fallacy of an op, you are truly twisting things, aren't ya?
What you just said is not at all what we're talking about!


Re-read Matthew 22:39, it says "Love your neighbor as yourself".

If you love your neighbor as yourself,.... you do not want someone sneaking, cheating, lying, and committing adultery with your own wife, so according to Matthew 22:39, you will not do so unto others.

It says "Love others as yourself", not "lust after all".

You might want to re-study your religion of Islam, because within the Qur'an, Sunna, and examples of the al-Khulafa'u ar-Rashidun are many illustrations of "The Golden Rule".


 



It is amazing, perplexing, and ridiculous how you call Love "magical, fuzzy, nebulous ",....

So you must think Allah is "magical, fuzzy, and nebulous" also, right? Because one of Allah's names is Al-Wadūd (The Loving). So when Muhammad and Allah teach a lesser kind of Love you accept it,... when others teach a greater Love, you belittle it?



 




As you want to cherry-pick single verses out of context with the greater body of documents about Jesus,....



Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1 Corinthians 13


Combine this teaching from 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 with Matthew 22:36-40 and you will see that your reply to me is utter garbage.


 


 


P.S.

According to your belief in Islam:

Did Jesus come to the Jews to cleanse their corruption and correct the religion of Abrahamic Monotheism?

If you say yes,.... your entire op is debunked by your very own religion.



edit on 12/6/13 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 6 2013 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


As this op of yours was motivated by your Islamic defense of death by stoning:


What did Allah say about stoning?

No one knows, because a plethora of verses in the chapter about stoning were left out of the Qur'an by the commissions of both Abu Bakr (Islam's First Successor), and later Uthman (Islam's Third Successor).

However, in order to clear his conscious, Umar (Islam's Second Successor) made a public pronouncement that the verses were left out of the Qur'an.

Today, the verses of stoning are considered Naskh al-tilawa duna al-hukm (Words Removed, Ruling Stays): The verse is removed from the Qur’an, but it’s ruling is still followed.


Regarding death by stoning for adulterers according to Islam,... not only does it illustrate an outdated, barbaric brutality, but it also raises the issue of the corruption of the Qur'an.





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