Ravenna Revisited - The Portage County Police UFO Chase.

originally posted by: karl 12

Taped Interview (courtesy of Easynow):

Part 1:

Part 2:

New Video Address for taped interviews with the police witnesses.

Excellent thread and thanks for those extra links Karl.

I do love these old classic cases but tend to concentrate on those from the British Isles first and foremost.

But this piqued my interest a while back and I had always intended to look more into this case one day. So I decided to grab some of the documents from links you've provided when I saw this thread pop up again. Thankfully a lot of the stuff is still there.

But it is disturbing how a lot of UFO information from the pioneering days of the World Wide Web has since disappeared as well. Also notable is that, even though these mass witness events were fairly rare back in the last century, they have virtually dried up since 1997 after the Phoenix Lights.

It could be witnesses just can't see the point of reporting anything, maybe a lot more is concealed by the authorities these days? Or perhaps, whatever strange activity was going on in the skies during latter half of the 20th Century, has reduced considerably for one reason or another.

But one thing this thread has inspired me to do is to dig out my old DVD of "Close Encounters.." and give it a watch. It was the first UFO movie I ever saw and few, if any, have bettered it.

originally posted by: mirageman

Excellent thread and thanks for those extra links Karl.

I do love these old classic cases but tend to concentrate on those from the British Isles first and foremost.

No problem mate and me too, I'm British as well and I think it was the Robert Taylor case that first that got me interested (and I'm still as clueless now as I was back then).

The West Lothian Question

originally posted by: mirageman

But it is disturbing how a lot of UFO information from the pioneering days of the World Wide Web has since disappeared as well. Also notable is that, even though these mass witness events were fairly rare back in the last century, they have virtually dried up since 1997 after the Phoenix Lights..

Would certainly agree that lots of info (resources and documents) have gone from the web and there's not that many major multiple sightings involving such things as radar confirmation any more -you mention Phoenix and probably the last one we got good data on was the Stephenville UFO from 2008 where residents reported witnessing U.S. Military aircraft actively pursuing the 'object' - sure you will have already seen it but the doco below contains some really good info on the MUFON analysis and FAA radar information (link) - Aerospace engineer Dr Wallace Fowler reckons the object was pulling 43 G's and Robert Powell also claims that because of this case the FAA now refuse to release specific radar information through the FOIA citing 'a threat to national airspace'.

Video

"The object, whatever it was, went from basically standing still to 1900 miles per hour in about 2 seconds.. I don't know of anything that's 600 feet across, that can hover, that can go 1900 miles an hour in 2 seconds then stop again.. If you do the calculations that's about 43 G's.. Within seconds you'd kill any human being."

Also can't help feeling there are a few parallels with this case from Michigan 12 years earlier so let's hope Robert Powell's comments aren't definitive and we continue to get access to FOIA radar info from the FAA and National Weather Service.

As for official UFO documents I think the days of the releases involved with this presentation are long gone.

Also, as it mentions here the Pentagon are also going to become (or have become) along with NORAD 'completely exempt' from the Freedom of Information Act and not have to release any more UFO documents so that can't be good news as the DIA appear heavily involved with the UFO subject.

Thought researcher Kevin Randle also makes some excellent points below about 'The Decline and Fall of FOIA' and mentions how the teeth have been removed from it - also brought up is the fact that the Bush administration made several changes to the 'interpretation' of the FOIA laws and, in June 2003, the Department of Justice actually held meetings 'to train FOIA officers how to keep more information from being disclosed under FOIA'.

I also thought it apt that the U.S. Air Force is stated to be 'one of the most notorious agencies of government in ignoring, denying, and essentially contravening the current requirements of the FOIA and related rules and law regarding Mandatory Declassification Review requests (MDRs)' and wasn't really surprised to learn that in 2007 they won the Rosemary award for worst FOIA performance from the National Security Archives group at George Washington University.

There are those who believe that the Freedom of Information Act is the gateway to all knowledge about UFOs. If you have a question, just file a FOIA request and the information will be sent to you. Anything you wish to know, you can learn, if you can find the right agency, form your questions intelligently, and if you have a little patience.

And I say crapola…

The point here is that it doesn’t seem that FOIA works as well as it used to. It seems that they can ignore repeated requests, and I really don’t want to pay an attorney two hundred dollars an hour to sue them for a response, only to learn that the information is considered vital to national security which would launch another lawsuit. They have the resources to dance, but we out here do not.Oh, I get it that lots of people file FOIA over trivia… but then, if the records weren’t hidden away, there would be no need for FOIA. And yes, I understand that some things are a matter of national security, but I’m not sure how that might relate to the Air Force investigations of Roswell since the Air Force said it was a balloon, or how it relates to the radar tracks of a commercial airliner more than two decades ago.FOIA just doesn’t work the way it used to and that is really all I’m saying..

I believe that the problem is systemic... the teeth have been removed from the FOIA laws, they now routinely charge, they categorize the requests, all to keep from having to do anything at all. It has nothing to do with UFOs and everything to do with keeping information, however routine and dull, from the public.

I had asked for something that should have been as simple as reviewing the Command Post logs on a single date. I just wanted to know if a telephone call had been made and if a radar track had been seen... Instead, I get a number of emails that have nothing to do with that and I still have no answer to my questions.

And, I have received absolutely no answer from one office at all. I have sent, over the last year, four separate requests for the very same information.

The point is that FOIA is sick and dying and that has nothing to do with UFOs.

link

I think if you take all that into account along with the escalating (and conditioned) ridicule factor attached to this subject then we won't be seeing the same level of multiple witness reports or officially released radar confirmation, ground trace, electromagnetic interference, physiological effect or government documentary evidence any time soon mate - at least not in the US and the UK.

originally posted by: mirageman

But one thing this thread has inspired me to do is to dig out my old DVD of "Close Encounters.." and give it a watch. It was the first UFO movie I ever saw and few, if any, have bettered it.

In complete agreement there -awesome film!

Don't know if you've seen it but Spielberg also makes some interesting comments about Hynek in this short clip.

Video

Cheers.

a reply to: karl 12

The Bob Taylor case is certainly one of high strangeness (Twilight Zone like) but with physical evidence and seems to be a true mystery to this day. That late 70s/early 80s period had a number of high profile cases. Before it came the Valentich case and the New Zealand UFO with the Alan Godfrey case, Rendlesham and Cash/Landrum following it. Although information was a lot harder to track down in those days I do clearly remember all of those cases from around the time.

So what happened?

As pointed out FOIA is basically something that has become undesirable in government. Despite these people being accountable to us they don't want us to know what they have been up to, what they really know nor what they don't know. Although concealing information about UFOs is probably not the main motive as Mr. Randle so eloquently explains in his write up. John Greenwald is also a guy I have a lot of respect for and the immense amount of work he has put in to the Black Vault.

Stephenville - very interesting although not a case I know in any depth. I have heard Angelia Joiner speak about her investigations and the problems she encountered.

Ordinary life has been getting in the way recently. So still haven't watched Close Encounters but I have finally dug out it. I've also got the box set of Taken to watch. For one reason or another I missed it on TV every time it was shown and have never got round to watching that. I've always wondered if Spielberg knows a bit more than we do or if he's just a great movie maker?

I know this thread has started to drift away from it's main topic but I am sure we are allowed a bit of licence in this case.
MM

originally posted by: mirageman

The Bob Taylor case is certainly one of high strangeness (Twilight Zone like) but with physical evidence and seems to be a true mystery to this day. That late 70s/early 80s period had a number of high profile cases. Before it came the Valentich case and the New Zealand UFO with the Alan Godfrey case, Rendlesham and Cash/Landrum following it. Although information was a lot harder to track down in those days I do clearly remember all of those cases from around the time.

So what happened?

Hi mate, sorry for the delay in a response -the cases you mention really are headscratchers and I do remember them getting quite a bit of NEWS/TV coverage at the time (maybe more objective than nowadays)- was always fascinated by Policeman Godfrey's account and, although I can't find it at the mo, there's a good interview with Gary Heseltine over on this thread where he states the object in question was also witnessed by two separately located officers at the same time and area - very twilight zone-ish that one.

Also found the similar(ish) case of Gary Wood from Scotland to be a very freaky one and the interview with the wife at around 6:55 is pretty interesting.

See 3:50

As for what happened for there to be a dip in good data I completely agree with your comments about the FOIA and maybe we have to start looking to other more open countries (like France, Peru, Uruguay, Chile, Argentina, Brazil etc.) for specific info on military/civilian cases -just even hearing about them is nice and I really do wonder how many the UK and US have swept under the rug over the years.

originally posted by: mirageman

Ordinary life has been getting in the way recently. So still haven't watched Close Encounters but I have finally dug out it. I've also got the box set of Taken to watch. For one reason or another I missed it on TV every time it was shown and have never got round to watching that. I've always wondered if Spielberg knows a bit more than we do or if he's just a great movie maker?

Tell me about it mate, ordinary life certainly has a way of doing that - happy viewing on the film and Corsair also made a great post here with some deleted scenes from O Hare airport if you've not seen them already.

Cheers!

Full report in print found in this publication:

Flying Saucers UFO Reports #3, October, 1967

Fully documented account of the controversial Ravenna UFO chase

Similar police cases from 1973:





and 1974:

We were discussing this case in another thread and I looked to see what ATS had available, luckily it was an uber Karl thread.

For anyone wanting to see some of the finer points of the case debated, albeit not in the most grown up way(sadly I find this highly amusingly), check out the comments section at the bottom of this page by Kevin Randle.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Thanks for posting that article mate and some of the points raised in the comments section are addressed in this post but I certainly see what you mean (sadly I find it highly amusing as well).

..the UFO also stopped and was witnessed by the officers hovering above Harmony Township at approximate altitude of 1,000 feet before 'shooting straight up' to an approximate altitude of 3,500 feet.

There is speculation that the vertical ascent of the UFO was due to incoming jet aircraft scrambled to pursue the object and it's also stated the officers could actually see the planes coming into the area yet the U.S. Government denies any such action took place.

Also relevant is the report that the officers did hear dispatch traffic on their police radio concerning the aircraft scramble and a notation was entered in the records of Columbiana County radio log stating that "P-13 contacted a Pittsburgh PD unit and they scrambled some jets, that flew under the object."

Would also dearly love to find out more about those scrambled jets and possibility of the object being filmed on gun camera footage - apparently as far back as 1947 there were U.S. fighter planes with gun and telescopic cameras being kept ready to take off and pursue 'flying saucers' so you never know.

Six Oregon National Guard fighter planes, equipped with gun and tele-scopic cameras are being kept ready to take off after any flying saucers. The Army last night announced that it had a fighter plane standing by at Muroc airbase, California, to join in the chase..

Missing Gun Camera UFO Footage?

Cheers!

a reply to: karl 12

Im with you on this one, I think its one of the best cases.

originally posted by: 111DPKING111
a reply to: karl 12

Im with you on this one, I think its one of the best cases.

It´s certainly a really, really interesting one mate and I think Dr Hynek and Dr Mcdonald got it spot on when they stated it should be reclassified as 'a strong unidentified´.

Also, I couldn't find another pdf copy of William B. Weitzel's investigative report on this case anywhere else on the web so if anyone is in a position to download and save it for future research then it certainly would be appreciated (things really do have a habit of disappearing off the internet these days).



Into the Middle Of Hell (PDF File)]

Looks like the PDF file of Weitzel's full report has been taken down and I can't seem to find another one - don't suppose anyone saved a copy for posterity?

a reply to: karl 12



it's your lucky day Karl!

www.tinyurl.com...

a reply to: mirageman

Ah ha ha ha

a reply to: mirageman

Ah was a bit drunk there last night but kudos and many thanks for saving that one mate - certainly an important part of UFO history and research.

There's a recent article below about the case interviewing James Evan's son so nice to see the incident is still receiving media attention 50 years on.


50 Years Ago, a Small Town Ohio Policeman Chased a Flying Saucer Into Pennsylvania... And It Ruined His Life

Thanks for all the diligence karl, for the initial work, and keeping it up-to-date. These sorts of sightings are the important ones, and the ones that should be dissected in any way possible to find the truth. This particular case reminds me of a more recent sighting in 2000 in Illinois:

Illinois Triangle UFO Sighting

I love cases with multiple witnesses, radar returns, police involvement, etc. Another great case where police were involved was in 1994 in Holland Michigan:

Holland Michigan UFO Sighting
Audio for above - original not working

m.youtube.com...

originally posted by: fleabit
Thanks for all the diligence karl, for the initial work, and keeping it up-to-date. These sorts of sightings are the important ones, and the ones that should be dissected in any way possible to find the truth. This particular case reminds me of a more recent sighting in 2000 in Illinois:

Illinois Triangle UFO Sighting

I love cases with multiple witnesses, radar returns, police involvement, etc. Another great case where police were involved was in 1994 in Holland Michigan:

Holland Michigan UFO Sighting
Audio for above - original not working

Random point, there are similarities with the rear-end sketch of the Illinois UFO and the UFO seen by pilot David Hastings in 1987, possible indicates what the rest of it may have looked like



www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: fleabit
Thanks for all the diligence karl, for the initial work, and keeping it up-to-date. These sorts of sightings are the important ones, and the ones that should be dissected in any way possible to find the truth. This particular case reminds me of a more recent sighting in 2000 in Illinois:

Illinois Triangle UFO Sighting

I love cases with multiple witnesses, radar returns, police involvement, etc. Another great case where police were involved was in 1994 in Holland Michigan:

Holland Michigan UFO Sighting
Audio for above - original not working

No worries mate and thanks for the post, did threads on those two cases a while back (1 / 2) and both are pretty fascinating incidents - also found Zcustosmorum's linked thread a very interesting one and had never seen this vid before.

As for the Portage police case, here's a pretty good recent documentary about it.




Cheers!

Other Police Officers reluctant to report experiences due to the shameful treatment of Deputy Spar.



See 2;00