Dangerous Philosophy: The Illusion of Free Will

reply to post by Wang Tang

After centuries of debate the problem of free will still remains unresolved with no end in sight. I cannot say one side is definitively right, but I do believe that our evidence almost exclusively points towards the deterministic side being right. Despite not being able to know with certainty that there is no free will, I think we may have sufficient evidence to believe that it does not exist. Here is why.

In my study of the concept of free will vs determinism, I have come to realize this:

Humans DO have the free will to make whatever decision they want (which is almost always influences by other factors, real, imagined, conscious, unconscious.

It is a FACT that there WILL be a SINGLE outcome. Does this mean everything is determined? To a degree, but it doesn't negate the concept of free will.

In the course of any individual, or any lifetime, or any reality, there exists an infinity of possible outcomes, yet only one (at least in our dimension/reality) will manifest.

Since time is essentially one, and we only see time (distinction as past/present/future) because we are bound by temporal existence, there is infinity of our choices and outcomes.

Once we make a choice, however, it becomes "reality." (For us, at least, and those who perceive it)

Our choice is, essentially, already determined...by our free will to make it. So, it doesn't matter what choice we make, it will have been determined by that fact that we have made it.

We are determined to make the choice we end up making, whatever that free will choice is.

No "god," nothing "determining" things for us, but by our own choices in the chance of infinity bring forth actuality.

That's what I have learned.

reply to post by Wang Tang


This one is easy:

Free will exists based on this old maxim: “ignorance is bliss”

If you don’t see or know the rudiments of any given phenomenological events origins then you have free will.

If you see and understand that origin then you don’t have free will

if we are one then we don't have free will but a combined experience. we would have control over our piece but restricted by the whole.

I do think we have choices then can change who we become.

To me the solution is to start thinking in terms of FREEDOM rather than free will. The 2 concepts are NOT interchangeable, and the world is sorely lacking in freedom, including and especially here in the hypocritical "land of the free" that is the USA. No matter what happens or what the underlying, metaphysical-or-whatever reality is, human beings are totally designed for thoughts and choices, and the actions and results-effects of thoughts and choices. Period. Anything else is unnecessary (by definition) mental masturbation. Just get on with it and live your life.

ketsuko

Wang Tang
reply to post by thruthseek3r

 

Ah yes this is valuable insight that you just presented because you know firsthand how dangerous this philosophy can truly be. What worries me is that it is the danger of believing in the illusion of free will, and not the truth of it, that seems to convince people to take the side of free will. This brings up the question: How valuable is the truth if it is more destructive than a lie? While this question applies to the problem of free will, it is a question that also applies in many other aspects of our lives that I think most people never come close to resolving.

Well, it does lead me to question the illusion of free will somewhat if the truth of not having free will would be destructive.

If we none of us actually have free will, if everything is all determined, then why should knowing this destroy anything or in any way alter behavior? And why would you worry about it becoming widely known?

If it's is meant to be, it will happen.

This again brings me back to our place in the universe. It very well may be a universe in which everything is already determined, but because of our natures and our places in it. We are anchored and do not perceive ourselves to be in that kind of reality. We only see and perceive what's around us.

Until we can break out of this anchored existence, we might as well not be living in a predetermined world because everything we sense tells us otherwise. And if you could somehow convince people of the truth you mention, it would be destructive because many would stop trying believing that nothing would matter and that there would be no point, not realizing that for all that it may be truth, it really means very little overall.

Yes you are right, but it is a "IF" and it is what makes the whole difference. We are not in a "IF" but in a "IS" so I do not think we should focus on speculating on a if, we should instead build upon what truly is.



Thruthseek3r

Willtell
reply to post by Wang Tang

 

This one is easy:

Free will exists based on this old maxim: “ignorance is bliss”

If you don’t see or know the rudiments of any given phenomenological events origins then you have free will.

If you see and understand that origin then you don’t have free will

I do not understand how free will could be related in any way with ignorance. There might be external factors having some influences on our life, yes, but it does not mean we are subjected to a certain type of behavior. One always has the choice of what to do but must assume the consequences of his own acts and it is exactly the possible consequences in my opinion which has an impact on the choice of action, but free will still remains.




Thruthseek3r