TOP 5 Types of "Good Evidence" -or- What "Undeniable Evidence" of ETs on Earth Would Look Like

I thought I'd start this thread to gather together some ideas of what I and other people of a skeptical mindset would need to prove evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence on Earth.

First let us deal with what is NOT considered good evidence in support of claims that intelligent extraterrestrials are flitting about Earth's skies.

1. Eyewitness testimony. This is the weakest form of evidence there is. Seeing is -not- believing unfortunately. And while someone can sincerely believe they saw ET their personal belief in and of itself is not anything that amounts to testable, verifiable, scientific evidence.

2. Photos/Videos of anomalous lights/craft - Its 2013. We all have access to computers capable of producing very realistic CGI fakes and any one can buy chinese lanterns or cheap radio controlled "UFO"s to film. Even expert photo and video analysts can and have been fooled by such.

3. Ancient Astronaut Theory - Or what I like to call The Search for ET through Art Interpretation... There are many reasons ancient peoples created the things they did. They had the same brain capacity for imagination and storytelling we have. They also had plenty more time on their hands without TV, video games, movies, cell phones, etc. One need not invoke ET to explain why they created what they created and so this is not good evidence either.

4. Dreams, visions, channelling. Need I say more? While its not out of the question that an intelligent ET civilization might have some way of hacking into our consciousness, unless some compelling, NEW and VERIFIABLE information were produced from that in addition to supposedly being from advanced ETs from "the Pleiades", "Arcturus" or "Sirius" (poor places for ET to hang around mind you) then there's nothing here that would amount to good evidence either.

5. Documents of an ambiguous nature. Supposedly "leaked" from "official government sources" which can not themselves be tested or verified.


So..... What WOULD be good evidence? Here are the top 5 things which I think would constitute undeniably good evidence of ETs on Earth. I'll start with the most obvious and move to the less obvious.

1. Habeas Corpus - Bring us the body. Or even a tiny piece of one which can be tested. I'm not talking about full on Roswell-like cadavers. Bring us an alien finger nail, scale, hair, or even saliva or other secretions. Something that can be looked at in a lab, thoroughly tested and possibly verified as being not of this earth. For instance all life on Earth uses left-sided proteins. If we found some form of extraterrestrial "DNA" using right sided proteins, that's pretty much an open and shut case provided the chain of custody of the sample went back to a verified "alien encounter".

2. Shoplifting - For all the accounts of alien abduction, no one has so much as brought us the alien equivalent of an acupuncture pin, dixie cup, screw or bolt or other small item that could go unnoticed. This type of physical evidence could be tested to determine things which might give enormous weight to such an encounter story. For example, you are on an alien ship and you pocket away a small piece of metal resembling a small square box. Somehow you are returned to you car, bed or whatever and still have it. That metal's isotopic ratio will be different than any other metal alloy on Earth if it were produced on another planet or from material from another planet. This is something which would be hard, scientific evidence that something was manufactured off world.

3. Alien Newspaper - For all the accounts of extraterrestrial contact with people, we almost never seem to get anything in the way of useful information outside the realm of human knowledge. So, if you're a UFO abductee there are some things you should ask to perhaps have something better than a nice story after your experience. Presumably your abductors having crossed many lightyears to get here would know basic astronomy. a) What is the nearest habitable (by Earth standards) to Earth, where is it, what is the star it circles called by us. b) What is a prime number which we have yet to discover. c) How many planets orbit the stars of Alpha Centauri? d) What planet do you originate from originally, where is it, around what star, what are the atmospheric characteristics of it? - Getting good answers to any and all of those questions means a lot more in the way of potential hard evidence something of an extraordinary nature took place than all the 'spiritual messages' such abductees are reportedly given. Answers to any of those questions could be verified either now or in the not too distant future. Example: Prior to this year one could have asked a supposed alien what the closest Brown Dwarf was to the Earth. A correct answer would have just been verified: www.skyandtelescope.com... This would have been something outside our knowledge at the time but which we'd soon discover.

4. Show Off! - A pre-planned mass sighting of craft flying at low altitude over say the top 30 cities in the world simultaneously witnessed for several hours by people, news companies, etc would go a long way to establishing that we had company. Even better would be a landing or two in a major place like a football stadium during a match/game or a large tourist attraction.

5. Address the UN. There is an actual office at the UN which will deal with anything of an extraterrestrial intelligence nature should ETs on Earth (or even knowledge of them out in other parts of our galaxy and universe) become known. In 2010 Mazlan Othman an astrophysicist from Malaysia was appointed head of the office that would deal with any earthbound aliens. I'm sure she'd love to have a chat.


That's all I have... any others?

There is an inherent problem I see. We judge these assumptions based only on our idea of what an alien is, what they look like, where they come from etc.

As young an infantile species on this one planet....we can only judge by what we know, but havent been around the perhaps millions-billions of evolutionary years they could possibly be. We dont necessarily know what to look for or where. They could be and look like anything or nothing at all.

This is one reason Im sure they are here, and have always been here. We just cant possibly know what to look for. We can only go by our limited opinions now of what they could or couldnt be.

For this reason, I think they are probably all around us everyday, everywhere. How would we know? What will we appear like a few 1,000 or more years up the evolutionary and scientific chain?

I dont think we can even guess...

reply to post by JadeStar


I believe that you spoke of a mass sighting. You say it would be rather convincing. Why is this not enough for you to consider. You seem to be an intelligent human so if you can watch this footage without coming to the same conclusion of the government and every skeptic then I'd be proud of you. Anybody in the military would tell you the same thing that flares don't act like that and stay in a uniform formation. I am not saying this is alien from space, but it is definitely alien to man and whatever this thing is, is truly scary.

www.youtube.com...

When I was in the military I can honestly say not once in my life in the army did I EVER see something like this. This is the only footage that I can honestly say I believe without a shadow of a doubt. Due to the date of the video and knowing that there wasn't as easy access to video manipulation to everybody this is a big deal I think. If you can tear that video apart and help me understand it without being rude I would greatly appreciate it!

mysterioustranger
There is an inherent problem I see. We judge these assumptions based only on our idea of what an alien is, what they look like, where they come from etc.

As young an infantile species on this one planet....we can only judge by what we know, but havent been around the perhaps millions-billions of evolutionary years they could possibly be. We dont necessarily know what to look for or where. They could be and look like anything or nothing at all.

This is one reason Im sure they are here, and have always been here. We just cant possibly know what to look for. We can only go by our limited opinions now of what they could or couldnt be.

For this reason, I think they are probably all around us everyday, everywhere. How would we know? What will we appear like a few 1,000 or more years up the evolutionary and scientific chain?

I dont think we can even guess...

In 1000 years or even 1 million years information will still be information. Physical properties about the universe will still be quantifiable. In other words, "they" presuming they existed on earth could easily be verified just through giving us information about our universe which we don't already have.


BTW: what you wrote might as well be describing spirits.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


I once watched a show about if we saw something that our brain couldn't understand or recognize as normal our brain would almost go into a shock state. So what if they are beings of another light spectrum and we can't see them at all? Only once in awhile people can if certain things align correctly. What if every time we lose a plain or boat in the Bermuda triangle we just 9/11'd them!?!?! omg... that is horribly

VoidWalker
reply to post by JadeStar

 

I believe that you spoke of a mass sighting. You say it would be rather convincing. Why is this not enough for you to consider.

One mass sighting with only a few videos or photos is not enough. There are plenty of non-ET explanations for what was shown in that video. That's why I said, something seen WORLDWIDE. Because you know, its dubious to suggest ET would just want to buzz the southwest of America looking for all the world like flares dropped from planes after coming all those lightyears.

reply to post by JadeStar


I wouldn't say that I am skeptical, but have a open mind on the subject. I have seen plenty of UFO's over my lifetime. I say UFO because I couldn't ID them. They could have been anything.

But I do like to believe that ET is out there. It would suck if we were the only ones floating about this universe. Where's the adventure in that?

The landing would go a long ways to proving their existence. Pretty much undeniable...except that there are those who would say it's all CGI and the crowd were actors.

Sounds like Encounter of the Fourth kind. It classifies alien encounters under four categories.

First is a sighting.

Second is evidence of a visit.

Third is actual interaction with the entities.

Fourth is being abducted.

reply to post by JadeStar


Dang man I was really hoping you weren't gonna say the flare thing. Oh well, I guess I look at it like how many people really had access to video cameras at that time. I guess you are looking for a world shattering announcement which would be ideal on all levels of this, but I fear that wont happen anytime soon. We can't even get secret societies to come out and say hey man here we are even though we know they are here.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Unfortunately there will ALWAYS be skeptics. Through these there will be extreme ones that will remain ignorant even if an alien were to slap him in the face and fly off with his wife and then there will be the group that will be just in the denial stage and saying its still a government act to instill fear bla bla bla theres always excuses and always ways to try and disprove. It is like faith in God. You really can't prove he's there but a life without some form of faith is pretty hard.

TDawgRex
reply to post by JadeStar

 

I wouldn't say that I am skeptical, but have a open mind on the subject.

One can be both. I am skeptical but have an open mind on the subject, otherwise I wouldn't be here on this forum.

I have seen plenty of UFO's over my lifetime. I say UFO because I couldn't ID them. They could have been anything.

Exactly. I've spent plenty of cold nights out alone in a field with a telescope, and I have seen some things which I could not immediately identify but that does not at all equal ET. It turned out one of them was a high altitude plane. The other was most likely a sighting of two different meteors which my mind merged into one event.

But I do like to believe that ET is out there. It would suck if we were the only ones floating about this universe. Where's the adventure in that?

The chances that we're the only ones are probably close to zero. The big question now, assuming we're not alone is about the prevalence and distribution of ET. That's a fascinating area of study among a lot of scientists -right now- and we've yet to even find one ET (but could any day). Pretty amazing huh?

The landing would go a long ways to proving their existence. Pretty much undeniable...except that there are those who would say it's all CGI and the crowd were actors.

Well yeah but most of the world knows that the US landed several missions on the moon in the late 60s/early 70s even though there are the "moon hoax" theorists. There most likely will be "alien landing hoax" or "SETI signal hoax" theorists after such an event. They won't be anywhere near the majority though. The flat earth society was still alive and kicking at the beginning of the 20th century after all.

mysterioustranger
There is an inherent problem I see. We judge these assumptions based only on our idea of what an alien is, what they look like, where they come from etc.

As young an infantile species on this one planet....we can only judge by what we know, but havent been around the perhaps millions-billions of evolutionary years they could possibly be. We dont necessarily know what to look for or where. They could be and look like anything or nothing at all.

This is one reason Im sure they are here, and have always been here. We just cant possibly know what to look for. We can only go by our limited opinions now of what they could or couldnt be.

For this reason, I think they are probably all around us everyday, everywhere. How would we know? What will we appear like a few 1,000 or more years up the evolutionary and scientific chain?

I dont think we can even guess...

Dinosaurs had Hundreds of Millions of years longer on an evolutionary scale than us.
Put us side by side, and to many of them we would have been food, and they to us, just animals.

More or less "Evolution" doesn't necessarily equate to "smarter", or more advanced.

Further, invisible aliens are worthless. It's pointless to talk about something that can't be tested by any known form of science or scientific equipment.

As far as technologically advanced aliens that we would recognize as aliens, as just stated, more or less"evolution" or time doesn't necessarily equate to "smarter". Such a species might certainly have had more time, just like dinosaurs, and over that time, just like we are doing, they made discoveries and built on each knowledge base which then took them further along their technological path of development until such point they got to wherever they are; they could in essence be morons compared to us, and though more advanced technologically due a longer path of development, intelligence above and beyond ours is not necessarily a given.

Intelligence to us, we humans, is a thing, something of value, where any given alien might not have any frame of reference to even define what"'smarter" is.
They very well could, but, just as equally, since it's an unknown, they might not.

Back to the whole thing with invisible aliens too, the ONLY aliens that are of any value to us are aliens that we can:

1. Recognize as Life/Aliens. This includes AI machines.
2. Aliens we can observe. We may not have the technology to interact with them, but, through telescopes and other equipment, just like aliens somewhere might one day watch our old broadcast television shows, or listen to our old radio shows, if we can at least observe them directly from afar, or indirectly through the broadcast noise of civilization, we could at least observe them.
3. Aliens we can interact with. This includes Aliens we can sit and have a chat over tea with, or, dead archaeological aliens in an alien graveyard on planet Lucas1138b, or even virtual AI pre-recorded aliens on disc (or whatever recording medium).

4. I'm separating this one - Aliens we can UNDERSTAND. If we find aliens, or they us, and it's impossible to understand or even communicate something that we and them can even recognize as non-threatening communication, then, other than classifying them as "Alien", they're really no different than finding an interesting animal like a squid that we know is smart, but we have no means to communicate or exchange any symbology.
At least Picard had "Shaka and the Walls Fell". or whatever.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

My point is are we to assume they have a head? Eyes and feet and arms? That they are our size and not gigantic or infitesimally small?
That they must be visible? That they must fly around in "ships" and use forms of propulsion?

I only propose the possibilies...that perhaps we cant see them, nor recognize them for what they are, and that maybe they have no bodies as we imagine...and that they do not "fly" around in "space-ships or "saucers"...because they are advanced beyond what we can imagine and expect.

mysterioustranger
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

My point is are we to assume they have a head? Eyes and feet and arms? That they are our size and not gigantic or infitesimally small?
That they must be visible? That they must fly around in "ships" and use forms of propulsion?

I only propose the possibilies...that perhaps we cant see them, nor recognize them for what they are, and that maybe they have no bodies as we imagine...and that they do not "fly" around in "space-ships or "saucers"...because they are advanced beyond what we can imagine and expect.

So what you are describing here is some form of disembodied information intelligence.

Cool.

So in order to verify such a thing existed it would need to interact with us in such a way that it provided us with information about the universe we share which we do not currently possess but which can be verified. This was my 3rd possible type of evidence.

Believers have claimed for decades that these are physical entities that land, interact with other humans, crash, abduct humans, etc. The answer is an extremely simple one, we demand physical evidence.

JadeStar
1. Habeas Corpus - Bring us the body.

Sorry, just had to point that out.

mysterioustranger
We dont necessarily know what to look for or where. They could be and look like anything or nothing at all.

I have to agree. If you've ever read anything by Stephen Baxter, the theory being that under various conditions in vastly different worlds any living thing can evolve into anything, usually to form-fit with its surroundings. I've always been amazed at how common bilateral symmetry is shared among so many Earth life forms, (2 eyes of course necessary for depth perception) but then I take a look at what lives in the ocean. Some lifeforms even living in complete darkness and thriving off sulfur. My point is that we just don't know what to expect. Is a physical vessel even necessary?

Here's something you can play around with!

Why all the DNA testing? Some have claimed by getting a ticket to go to court all charges will be dropped if you Give them some of your DNA! Or why the push for a Flu Shot? It would be simple to save the DNA from the giving of said shot and have it also.

So my question is. What Are they Looking for? Blood Line or ET? Or it could be as simple as trying to find info on why some do get sick and some do not!

But they are Looking for something!

Peace

1. Eyewitness testimony. This is the weakest form of evidence there is. Seeing is -not- believing unfortunately. And while someone can sincerely believe they saw ET their personal belief in and of itself is not anything that amounts to testable, verifiable, scientific evidence.

An exact opposite in the court of law.

2. Photos/Videos of anomalous lights/craft - Its 2013. We all have access to computers capable of producing very realistic CGI fakes and any one can buy chinese lanterns or cheap radio controlled "UFO"s to film. Even expert photo and video analysts can and have been fooled by such.

I have tried taking pictures of bright objects in the sky(especially night sky) and they look like sh!t. If there is an UFO in the night sky, it will look nothing extraordinary. Only very expensive pieces take great quality videos.

3. Ancient Astronaut Theory - Or what I like to call The Search for ET through Art Interpretation... There are many reasons ancient peoples created the things they did. They had the same brain capacity for imagination and storytelling we have. They also had plenty more time on their hands without TV, video games, movies, cell phones, etc. One need not invoke ET to explain why they created what they created and so this is not good evidence either.

They didn´t have a sense of entertainment like modern man. So there is every reason they carved out what they actually saw. They had plenty of time in their hands to repeat what they experienced.

4. Dreams, visions, channelling. Need I say more? While its not out of the question that an intelligent ET civilization might have some way of hacking into our consciousness, unless some compelling, NEW and VERIFIABLE information were produced from that in addition to supposedly being from advanced ETs from "the Pleiades", "Arcturus" or "Sirius" (poor places for ET to hang around mind you) then there's nothing here that would amount to good evidence either.

Many abduction cases report strange happenings like consciousness shift or people experiencing OBE, NDE etc. These things needs to be looked at. Besides, we don´t even know who we are dealing with let alone coming from a distant star.

1. Habeas Corpus - Bring us the body.

Unless we don´t get contaminated. Yeah!!

2. Shoplifting - For all the accounts of alien abduction, no one has so much as brought us the alien equivalent of an acupuncture pin, dixie cup, screw or bolt or other small item that could go unnoticed.

Because they weren´t in a position to do so. Say, I would not think of my post-abduction press meet when my life is taking a deadly turn.

3. Alien Newspaper - For all the accounts of extraterrestrial contact with people, we almost never seem to get anything in the way of useful information outside the realm of human knowledge.

The betty hill case involve such an information.

4. Show Off! - A pre-planned mass sighting of craft flying at low altitude over say the top 30 cities in the world simultaneously witnessed for several hours by people, news companies, etc would go a long way to establishing that we had company. Even better would be a landing or two in a major place like a football stadium during a match/game or a large tourist attraction.

Phoenix lights, O´Hare UFO case..uhmm..them messing with nuclear missiles..If you take into account the strange manoeuvres, almost every sight is a show-off.

5. Address the UN. There is an actual office at the UN which will deal with anything of an extraterrestrial intelligence nature should ETs on Earth (or even knowledge of them out in other parts of our galaxy and universe) become known. In 2010 Mazlan Othman an astrophysicist from Malaysia was appointed head of the office that would deal with any earthbound aliens. I'm sure she'd love to have a chat.

You mean the Aliens should address the UN? Looks like they don´t give a sh!t about UN or any gubernment whatsoever.

reply to post by KelvinFrost

This is my point all along: We can only judge or gage something based on and from our accumulated knowledge NOW. We can only SPECULATE on possibilities of what they may or may not be or look like in the future.

Given that? Its near impossible to assure we'd even recognize them/they/it in the future when they/them/it are thousands...perhaps millions of evolutionary years beyond what we can even grasp.

We can only guess. Therefore...accepted proof by us...ants on a anthill to their interplanetary travels...is pointless without knowing what to look for.

This is one of the reasons Ive always surmissed they are already here....we've just no way of comprehending their advanced states and forms.