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Presidential Powers and the Constitution, House Judiciary Committee Hearing

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posted on Dec, 3 2013 @ 11:54 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 





Executive is only perceived to have as much power as the People seem to give them; even though they do not have the power delegated towards them; regardless of the limit on their terms...

okay, my bad. But ' we the people's representative' are not fighting back. We are impotent in our representation. We are impotent as a people. We have it just good enough to be satisfied with the status quo if it doesn't hurt us.

This is not good for either party. They are both corrupt. We need a third and fourth party ( who will likely become corrupt) but we need them NOW.




posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by Helious
 


I agree and great summation. I like to add each proceeding President for a long time has pushed the envelop of executive power with the current one stepping completely over the line.

Patriot act was egregious and a piece of legislation thet was passed as an expedient with sunset provisions - the sunset provisions were extended several times morphing this into something it never was intended to be - both parties have a hand as well as current and past President.

It was surprising to find out watching the CSPAN video that Congress itself has virtually no standing in court to sue for Constitutional violations by the President.

They cant pass legislation through senate and executive for corrections, they cant use power of purse as 95% ACA is mandatory spending as passed along party lines, they have no recourse in the courts, they cant get conviction on impeachment - yet.

That doesn't leave much on the table regarding unconstitutional actions by the President.

That leaves voting but if Obama can successfully change what is considered tax legislation what's preventing him from changing election law? his good intentions?

This is a very bad road to go down.



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 12:27 AM
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NihilistSanta

Nephalim
I find this attempt to demonize the executives alone a little #ty. There are laws on the books now Ill bet the people DO NOT WANT executed, let alone have them remain on the books for him or her to execute.


S&F on you. This is what I was getting at a bit. You are absolutely right we have ways of taking care of this if only they were enforced. The problem is that I see all of this disregard for the laws in place as a means to push to have the laws/constitution rewritten which will only erode our rights further as they sneak in legislature absolving themselves of wrong doing and granting more power. This is a combined attack from the left and the right.

*Just noticed I misread what I quoted but my point still stands.
edit on 3-12-2013 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)


I think what I was trying to say is simply what I said. I dont believe our constitution needs to be rewritten specifically, but some of the laws that have been written under those authorities may not reflect the current will of the people in whole or in part. On certain things I give the government a little leeway because i expect them and the law to represent the will of the people. So if you call for a review or an update, you expect that to happen and during such time you do not expect that the executive would exercise a strict enforcement of those laws.

Second, Im not really too sure about some of the issues they presented. In other words I don't have all the facts, on bengazi for example, those are things coming from other people who had to deal with that issue. Not me specifically. If you notice, my rep was not there, other peoples reps from Tx were.

Third,on the issue of states rights. I expect also that the executive would recognize that the people in certain states have voted in their laws (in the interest of self governance, dignity and virtue) not to disrupt the authority of executive nor congress) and the way that they deal with enforcement, is not always just on the president. The people also retain certain powers that are not to be disparaged and they also retain the right to vote in order to manage the executive action.

And last, I made a comment here on a washington post article about executive abuse. The potential for it possibly enabled by extending the executive service time. I never meant to imply that I meant anyone specifically. Only to remind the people that a person might come along at some point, and use his authority in ways they would not like at all. And that sort of abuse can also come from congress or the courts if youre not careful btw, the legislative power and the interpretive power is theirs, but who is to say they are not capable of dumping all over your will. /shrug checks and balances- none of them are safe from it if the people decide the whole has become tyrannical or despotic. Be that by vote or force.

That in no way btw is me inciting rebellion.

edit on 4-12-2013 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


Nephalim S&F on that post,

I think Constitution as written is fine and I'm leery of changing it with so many special interests potentially corrupting it with unintended consequences.

Will of the people is good up to a point - that point is when a majority starts voting largesse which has risk of collapsing entire system through unbridled democracy. Its why we're a representative republic.

Polling at time ACA was passed had a clear majority against it and that polling number has increased as more have learned what's in it or not in it. So much for will of the people - will of the few on that one.

Congress in many ways marginalized itself over the years by shifting responsibility so congress people could avoid being nailed down by voters on which way something was voted on - at least that's my opinion, shift the buck. Omnibus spending bills and continuing spending resolutions have the same effect by offering cover for the politicians.

States rights went away after civil war and later by court rulings virtually removing any limits on commerce clause interpretation which basically nullify 10th amendment as far as states and the people are concerned.

All the way back in early 1800's the Supreme Court gave itself powers not delegated by Constitution by allowing itself to make law rather than just rule on law passed by Congress. Which I believe was original intent.

The original balancing act intended as separation of powers has been broken for many reasons and is in dire need of repair.

The executive branch is seriously ignoring rule of law, well, because it can get away with it. For now.

Unfortunately the behemoth of a federal government we have today has self perpetuated by making a majority dependent on it so the ultimate solution and getting to that solution is going to probably be very painful for all no matter political leanings. We will all be in the same boat fighting amongst ourselves except for the very rich or privileged elite.

The whole huge rotten mess is going to collapse of its own weight and then..................

My hope is that something of the original is preserved to rebuild upon. Part of preserving is educating enough people to what's happening and at least stop it where it can be stopped even if that does not prevent a collapse into chaos or tyranny.

Just my 2 cents



posted on Dec, 4 2013 @ 04:11 AM
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Yea, but I can't throw people under the bus either; not intentionally. We are a big nation and to pretend that federal, state or even local is always right would be ignorant of me not to acknowledge.

I mean some of us have city councils who say people cant park where they want on their own property. I argue that they don't have the right to make decisions on family property like that. Let alone tax it right? Why? because the home is a place of safety, prayer, rest, and assembly... the home is not taxable nor open to intrusion in my mind. /shrug If it was, it would not be the things I just mentioned that it was. Its not like all people use their property for commercial purposes because they don't. Even worse, population is on the rise, and so are taxes; apparently so are evictions and homeless rates.
Isn't that scary?

You can make those arguments all the way up and for some dumb arse reason, people will fight you on it but in your mind you're right all day long and you know you are.
________________________________________

Take immigration for example. Right now a mayor somewhere is literally inviting trade with a foreign nation, all the while, neither the congress nor the people have made any decisions on immigration, and I personally have an issue with the US kicking out who I consider to be Native Americans. How can you kick natives out and invite others from all over in? It bothers me that people have the nerve to do these things; on my behalf

At the state level, we (Texas) have not joined our sister states in support of their legalization efforts and we have to wait to see what they decide when they get back in session. We run on a Bi and we have not led our nation in this effort as should have from the get go. All the while our Governor and legislature took the time to talk about states rights which are not restricted just to the states. The people do have a say on all these things. On the same level, people elected a dead man (god rest the poor mans soul) into office. So you'll have to forgive me if i have little confidence in Government and the vote sometimes.

edit on 4-12-2013 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 5 2013 @ 11:40 AM
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While I wade into these waters with no small trepidation, I will say what I think for a change instead of merely passing on.

There are plenty of real, non-partisan, reasons to judge the actions of our President and find them lacking and in some cases, troubling. As there was with the previous President, and really, as there were with all Presidents back to Washington. Even one of my favorites, Thomas Jefferson, dramatically changed his behavior if not his philosophy when he became Chief Executive by moving toward a more "government-centric" perspective if you will. Many of his opponents at the time also called him "a tyrant." That's just the nature of the Executive beast, in my estimation.

Finding fault with the President and stating those faults in the public forum is traditional, valid and valuable to our Republic. However, ...

The recent vitriolic disrespect, dishonestly and yes, discrimination toward our current President by political opponents as aggrandized by utterly biased and functionally-compromised media outlets ARE NOT valuable and concern me far more in regard to the future of our Republic than any given action of Mr. Obama, (or Mr. Bush, or any other individual.)

What I see in the political discourse today, all too often, is an obsessive compulsion to make "our side" look good and the "other side" look bad at ANY cost. Misrepresentation, spin, and in many cases outright lies plague our current system. Irrational fear as promulgated by the chief media outlets for "one side of the other" move us farther away from examining, understanding or even comprehending THE FACTS of our government and our daily lives. Apocalyptic predictions, from one side or the other, are the rule rather than the exception.

We need to get on with the business of the People. We need to focus on what is good for ALL OF US, not just this group or that faction or this party or that community. We are LOSING our place in the world, and that is due to a lack of science and math education and achievement, personal responsibility and, let's face it, good old fashioned cooperation with someone you disagree with to get # done.

We act, all too often, like a nation of spoiled children. And we need to grow up, stop playing My Side against Your Side and work TOGETHER.
edit on 5-12-2013 by Gryphon66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-12-2013 by Gryphon66 because: small grammatical corrections.



posted on Dec, 8 2013 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by Gryphon66
 

applause for you, sir. well said.



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