Iceland police shoot and kill someone. For the first time ever.

Not sure what to make of this, though it's an interesting topic.

Yesterday, police in Iceland shot and killed a man who had been shooting at them and would not stop, despite their use of tear gas. Two special services officers were injured by the 59 year old man, armed with a shotgun.

The police apologized, and noted that it was the first time they had killed anyone.

"Police regret this incident and would like to extend their condolences to the family of the man," Icelandic police chief Haraldur Johannessen told reporters.

The incident was "without precedent" in Iceland, he said. (Source)

Now, the question arises as to why this hasn't happened before, and it's not because the Icelandic population isn't armed.

Details of the event have yet to emerge, but this much is clear: Iceland is a weird place. The population of the island is 325,000, while the number of registered firearms is 90,000, which when you consider that Iceland also has children, suggests that more than a third of the population is armed. So why don't Iceland's police have to shoot people?

St. Louis happens to have about the same population as Iceland. Last year, the city's police chief ordered a study of incidents in which officers shot at suspects. As reported by the St. Louis Post Dispatch, that happened 98 times in the 2008-2011 period, and 12 of the people shot at died. (Source)

It appears that the big difference is that a typical Icelandic police officer is not armed -- only special forces are. Of course, one of the reasons that most officers in the US are armed is that they are attacked often enough to merit it, but it seems strange that a largely urban population, a third of whom are armed, have never spawned a deadly response from police until yesterday.

Details of the event have yet to emerge, but this much is clear: Iceland is a weird place.

How is it weird? If This is weird, then I wonder about the person who said that. The fact that almost no one in Iceland considers themselves either very rich or very poor counts for a lot in people who feel very safe and secure on that island.

But that can't be the reason.....that HAS to be a coincidence. (/sarcasm)

reply to post by Taupin Desciple

BTW, that incident happened back in May.

Everything that I've found has said that it just happened -- the cited article about the lack of violence in Iceland was written in May, but the police shooting happened yesterday.

Maybe ice lands police do not choose to equate their jobs with war?

You know choosing to operate like an army, an waging endless war on drugs.

When the group that's supposed to protect you treats you like enemy combatants on the battle field casualties and collateral damage will always occur.

The US armies rules of engagement is stricter than the average US beat cop.

Eta: just a fun fact more Americans killed since 9-11 than by any terrorist. 5000 citizens have been executed with out trial since 911 by US police officers.

Guess that it goes both ways. From another forum:

Quote Originally Posted by Jacob2899 View Post
Anybody know if a police officer in Iceland has ever been shot and killed in the line of duty?

I was curious about that as well. I emailed their website and they say no Icelandic police have been shot and killed on duty. (Source)

That probably goes a ways to explaining why the typical officer is not armed.

reply to post by adjensen


I hope we get some of the members who live in Iceland to comment on this. I recall at least a few from back when Iceland was in the news regularly over it's last election and troubles before that.

I'm thinking personally, the reason is more basic than whether the cops are armed or whether police attitudes are different. I'm guessing if I spent a week in Iceland, just doing the 'local' tourist thing for being around town? The whole feel and atmosphere would be radically different than even a downtown of a large town in the US.

Here, being alert for trouble is almost required as a natural state of being in public. That is simply looking at and being aware of everyone around in the public area, as an almost subconscious thing, to evaluate for possible threats. I'm guessing that isn't the standard way of living everywhere...at least not how I've heard locals describe a few other places.

Morning,

I'd love to see them try and blame videogames for this one.

-Peace-

adjensen
Of course, one of the reasons that most officers in the US are armed is that they are attacked often enough to merit it,

One should actually think about why this is true.

Cause and effect..........

benrl
Maybe ice lands police do not choose to equate their jobs with war?

You know choosing to operate like an army, an waging endless war on drugs.

When the group that's supposed to protect you treats you like enemy combatants on the battle field casualties and collateral damage will always occur.

The US armies rules of engagement is stricter than the average US beat cop.

Eta: just a fun fact more Americans killed since 9-11 than by any terrorist. 5000 citizens have been executed with out trial since 911 by US police officers.

edit on 3-12-2013 by benrl because: (no reason given)

Excellent points both. The risk of being killed by a "terrorist" is negligible yet we spend trillions allegedly defending against it. Meanwhile, our own police are shooting citizens like its their job, which argueably it is. The US for some reason has a large population of savage jungle beasts that occasionally need to be put down. Copious amounts of gangsters and ner-do-wells combined with hyperaggressive cops. Plenty of shooting to do.

How sad is it when we are compelled to look at the reason why police ARENT shooting people because police shootings are so common we cant imagine a world without them.

Another example of the world being upside down and back to front

reply to post by adjensen

It appears that the big difference is that a typical Icelandic police officer is not armed -- only special forces are. Of course, one of the reasons that most officers in the US are armed is that they are attacked often enough to merit it, but it seems strange that a largely urban population, a third of whom are armed, have never spawned a deadly response from police until yesterday.

Being a cop isn't even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs in America.

1. Logging workers
2. Fishers and related fishing workers
3. Aircraft pilot and flight engineers
4. Roofers
5. Structural iron and steel workers
6. Refuse and recyclable material collectors
7. Electrical power-line installers and repairers
8. Drivers/sales workers and truck drivers
9. Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers
10. Construction laborers

source

Movies and TV shows would have us believe that the average cop is fighting for his life in an urban war zone and plenty of law enforcement officials are happy to perpetuate this misconception to justify police brutality and excessive use of force.

With the mentality in the U.S. (of some law enforcement officials), I bet some are thinking "what a bunch of pussies, I'm on my third kill"

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I'm thinking personally, the reason is more basic than whether the cops are armed or whether police attitudes are different.

I think you've got it. It's all about attitude and when cops see citizens as "civilians" then they see themselves as a military force. We are the enemy to them, not to be trusted and they have a shoot first ask questions later mentality. Couple that with no or little consequences for shooting people, bad training, steroids and the blue line and it makes for a very bad situation.

However I would not suggest that cops not carry guns. A handgun is fine with me, maybe a shotgun in the cruiser trunk, sure. Body armor, automatic rifles, armored vehicles, not so much. That's just looking for disaster.

Iceland, you rock!

Iceland is looking like an AMAZING place to live, just saying..

But then again they probably wouldn't want us american riff raff :p

reply to post by Bassago


Indeed.. The heavy weapons are getting to be a bit much. I can still recall, not that long ago, when they were talking about Houston cops (only some..) getting MP-5's on a shift for emergencies. That seemed a bit fantastic and far fetched at the time. Now, I've seen police units before I left trucking that had M-16's WITH Shotguns in racks in the front or Mini-14's in the case of some CHP.

I can allllmost see the CHP. Some of them. Simply because SOME of them do work out in areas where a couple hundred yards isn't that far away for something to be happening but a VERY long way for a little handgun to do anything. (The Mojave desert outside the cities comes to mind)...but as you note, it's not where there is logic to it. It's everywhere for the heavy stuff now with body armor being standard to them all, no matter the context.

reply to post by ThinkYouSpeak

Iceland is looking like an AMAZING place to live, just saying..

But then again they probably wouldn't want us american riff raff

Here is Iceland's Immigration information -- looks like if you have a job and a place to live, you're golden.

Sadly, for those fleeing Obamacare, they do have mandatory health insurance.

Iceland makes a good argument for non-diversity as it's population is mostly homogenous.
They are the only country I know of thus far to hold the bankers to account.
That says something for not only their government but for the people as well.
Apparently, civic life and virtue still lives there.
Most of all their culture remains intact, Icelanders have a secure sense of themselves, their countrymen and their history.
People say crime rates are tied to economic factors but I beg to differ.
I think crime rates have much more to do with perceived factions within a society.

This surely shows the difference in culture and trust between countries.

Iceland doesn't need to arm it's officers, because it trusts it's people not to shoot them and commit crimes worth being shot for. Which in turn shows that the government out there is not as corrupt and disgraceful enough to actually push people into committing gun violence.

And it clearly takes a heck of a lot for the police to shoot someone out there. I love how they tried to tear gas him, and it was THE Last resort that meant he got killed.


Good on you Iceland, setting an example for all countries that have guns among their culture.


As usual these are my opinions, I am not stating facts.

It also appears that there is not a crime vacuum in Iceland. I wish I could find something a little more recent, but here are Icelandic crime statistics for 2001-2006, indicating murder, rape, and reported instances of violence against the police (68 instances in 2005.) In 2005, the rapes per 100,000 people in Iceland were 24.9, while in the US, it was 31.8

Admittedly, the overall numbers are pretty small because of the population, but it's not like the police never saw circumstances that would likely have resulted in an offender's death, had they happened in the United States.

reply to post by adjensen

The people of Iceland have it right.

The majority of police officers should not be armed.

This system should be adopted world wide.