Khufu Cartouche in GP Dated - Centuries Old

lostinspace
This is somewhat of a tangent to the thread but I can’t help notice some glaring facts pertaining to the large pyramids of Khufu and Khafre. It came to me after reading this comment from you Scott.

SC: In 1818, Giovanni Belzoni became the first person in modern times to enter G2, the pyramid attributed by conventional Egyptology to Khafre. When Belzoni entered the so-called 'burial chamber' he found a stone container set into the floor which he presumed to be a sarcophagus. When he prised the lid from the container, Belzoni was disappointed to find that the container was filled only with earth, stones and fragments of bull bones. Belzoni concluded that some 'joker' in antiquity had removed the king's body and had went to the not inconsiderable trouble of then dragging bags of earth and stones to fill the stone container and then re-seal it.

The mention of bull bones made me look up some information on sacred bull worship. It appears that bull worship in ancient Egypt was directed to the sacred bull god Apis. The hieroglyphics for Apis seems to match the construction style for the main entrance to Khufu’s pyramid.

Hieroglyphs of Apis.

You can clearly see the double gabled roof symbol is a match for Khufu’s pyramid and Apis. It is also believed that there is a double gabled roof within the Queen and King’s chambers.

We only know about the stress-relieving chambers because in 1837 Howard Vyse had small tunnels dug and blasted, but we don't know about what lies on top of the gable. If you compare the configuration of the King's chamber with the way the entrance to the pyramid was built you notice, that two layers of stone blocks were used there to form a double gabled roof. For this reason some archeologists conjecture, that there might be another layer of limestone slabs lying on top forming a double gabled roof.

www.cheops-pyramide.ch...

I was wondering if these two great pyramids were meant to house a live or dead bull. An animal can’t read so maybe that’s why there are no writings within these pyramids.

edit on 13-12-2013 by lostinspace because: minor wording

Well the entrance was built that way to hold up all the stones above it not because of symbolism.Hower Apis is Osiris funny in egypt how everything involved around osiris. He was the one that gave life he ruled the underworld had the power to resurrect. He was the son of a gods (jesus of his time if you will) his spirit was worshipped separately it was called BA. Just like the holy ghost of scripture. Other similarities to other stories weve heard is astounding for example he gets tricked in to a box much like aladdin tricked the genie into a bottle. He supposedly created civilization being the first king of egypt he was resurrected from the dead. He was the gatekeeper to the heavens he had a book of deeds and a scale to measure ones heart very similar to Saint Peter and his book at the gates of heaven.

Funny all the similarities you see from ancient religions that carried over in to modern times. Guess it shows religions evolved more often than being created from scratch.

It's interesting that they depicted that building technique next to a bull in an hieroglyph. I wonder how old the hieroglyph is.

I sent Byrd a PM and asked him to translate that hieroglyph.

Restricted
It's interesting that they depicted that building technique next to a bull in an hieroglyph. I wonder how old the hieroglyph is.

I sent Byrd a PM and asked him to translate that hieroglyph.

edit on 12/14/2013 by Restricted because: (no reason given)

That building structure hieroglyph by itself is also associated with the bull god Apis. Check out the Wikipedia article on Apis to see his associated hieroglyphs.

Restricted
It's interesting that they depicted that building technique next to a bull in an hieroglyph. I wonder how old the hieroglyph is.

edit on 12/14/2013 by Restricted because: (no reason given)

Hello Restricted,

Ancient Egypt had a number of bull-worship cults over its history but the Apis bull-cult was by far the oldest:

In Egyptian mythology, Apis or Hapis (alternatively spelled Hapi-ankh), is a bull-deity that was worshipped in the Memphis region. "Apis served as an intermediary between humans and an all-powerful god (originally Ptah, later Osiris, then Atum)”… Apis is named on very early monuments, but little is known of the divine animal before the New Kingdom. Ceremonial burials of bulls indicate that ritual sacrifice was part of the worship of the early cow deities and a bull might represent a king who became a deity after death. He was entitled "the renewal of the life" of the Memphite god Ptah: but after death he became Osorapis, i.e. the Osiris Apis, just as dead humans were assimilated to Osiris, the king of the underworld… Greek writers make the Apis an incarnation of Osiris, ignoring the connection with Ptah… The cult of the Apis bull started at the very beginning of Egyptian history, probably as a fertility god connected to grain… Apis was originally the Herald (wHm) of Ptah, the chief god in the area around Memphis. As a manifestation of Ptah, Apis also was considered to be a symbol of the pharaoh, embodying the qualities of kingship. (My emphasis).

Source: Wiki Apis Bull

Here are the hieroglyphs (with Gardiner’s sign reference) for the Apis Bull highlighted in yellow. Notice how the name makes use of the upraised arms ideogram (Gardiner’s D28), the sign for KA (an aspect of the AE soul). The bull sign (Gardiner's E1) has the phonetic 'Ka' sound and is effectively an ideogram of itself i.e. the hieroglyph sign (the bull) actually represents a bull, a bit like a drawing of a house would represent the actual phonetic word 'house'. On its own the the 'bull' sign is perfectly clear as the phonetic word for bull (Ka). There seems little reason then to require the use of the bull as a phonetic compliment to the Ka upraised arms sign, so it seems to me that the intended meaning here is more than simply the word 'bull' but some spiritual aspect of the sacred bull hence the use of the upraised arms sign (D28).





Ptah was one of the earliest rebirth gods of ancient Egypt, predating the gods Osiris and Seker (Sokar).

Ptah is the creator god par excellence: He is considered the demiurge who existed before all things, and by his willingness, thought the world. It was first conceived by Thought, and realized by the Word: Ptah conceives the world by the thought of his heart and gives life through the magic of his Word. That which Ptah commanded was created, with which the constituents of nature, fauna, and flora, are contained. He also plays a role in the preservation of the world and the permanence of the royal function.

Source: Wiki AE God Ptah

Incidentally, the name ‘Ptah’ is believed to be the root for the name ‘Egypt’.

He was so popular in Egypt that it is said that the name "Egypt" itself derives from a Greek spelling of the name of a temple in Memphis; "Hwt-kA-ptH", which means "the temple of the Ka of Ptah". Source.

Regards,

SC

I was speaking specifically of the glyph of the double gabled roof. I know what the bull represents. I'm curious as to how it translates as a whole, especially with the glyph next to it (twisted thingy).

That a building technique is depicted next to the bull is very intriguing. On first glance it seems to imply the GP may have been built as part of the Apis mythology, but that could be a later interpretation since we don't know how old the GP is. I think it's much older than believed.

I'll sit back and wait to be attacked for saying that.


I probably should have waited to reply. I really wonder about that translation. It is curious, don't you think?


I wonder what that single hieroglyph translates as - the double gabled roof.

HumAnnunaki
reply to post by Scott Creighton

 

Thanks Scott -

No need to reply to this (just a thought I have pondered awhile)

This has to your with your polar tilt CROSS-OVER theory..
(visiting your forum looking for updates last night, I was reminded)

Carl Munck has the polar tilt at 19 degrees.

In your theory, you have it at 6.5 degrees crossing over.
Could the air-shafts crossing over constitute multiplying by a factor of two:

I say this because 6.5 x 2 = THIRTEEN.

Thirteen jumps at me everywhere at Giza

so curiously I wonder
if 13 is the polar tilt or a halfway mark in the 26,000 precession period.

Giza is definitely a book of questions!

Hello HumAnnunaki,

SC: Many thanks for this. I wasn't aware that Munck had proposed this. Do you have a reference?

What has to be realised is that axial tilt is quite different to Polar Wander. If I recall correctly, Australian astronomer, George Dodwell, proposed an axial obliquity of around 26 degrees from an original obliquity of around 5 degrees.

From a study of the starting point of other natural phenomena, which accord with a logarithmic sine curve (e.g. the first or major phase of the light curve of a new star after its initial outburst), it seems probable that the earth's rotational axis was suddenly changed by the force of impact in 2345 B.C., from an original inclination of about 5 degrees, by an amount of about 21.5 degrees to a new inclination of about 26.5 degrees. Source.

The thing about axial tilt as Dodwell proposes, however, is that every place on earth remains the same distance relative to the poles and each other. No place changes in latitude. Some places will become hotter or colder depending whether they are tilted closer to or further away from the sun.

In True Polar Wander, latitudes actually change (albeit over very, very long periods of time--millions of years). However, in 'Rapid True Polar Wander' (which I propose in my forthcoming book), latitudes can change very quickly indeed. This means that if we take the centre of the last polar ice cap as being in the northern hemisphere at approx 72ºN in central Greenland about 20,000 years ago, then this point shifted latitude by about 18º to its present pole location i.e. 90ºN in the Arctic Sea.

Now, the remarkable thing about this 18º Rapid True Polar Wander is the effect it has on other parts of the globe--the latitudinal shifts taking place elsewhere on the globe are not a uniform 18º (due to the Earth's obliquity). At Giza, for example, the observable relative shift from the former Greenland pole to the new (present) pole amounts only to around 6.5º change in latitude, not 18º i.e. with the pole formerly in central Greenland (now at 72º N), Giza was formerly at 36.5ºN and was shifted 6.5º further south to 30º N and this is what is reflected in the two sets of star-shafts of the Great Pyramids--these shafts show how, from the latitude of Giza, the stars (specifically Al Nitak in Orion's Belt) shifted 6.5º relative to the 18º shift of the poles. The cross-over of the two northern shafts simply helps us to determine the direction of the shift. Had the shift occurred in the opposite direction then we would have found the two southern shafts of the GP crossed-over whilst the northern ones didn't.

Hope this is of some use to you.

Regards,

SC

Restricted
I was speaking specifically of the glyph of the double gabled roof. I know what the bull represents. I'm curious as to how it translates as a whole, especially with the glyph next to it (twisted thingy).

SC: The sign resembling the double-gabled roof (Gardiner's AA5), is believed to represent the steering gear of ship and is phonetically pronounced 'achp'. The "twisted thing" (Gardiner's sign V28) represents flax or a wick. It is also the uniliteral letter 'h' sound.

Regards,

SC

Scott Creighton

Restricted
I was speaking specifically of the glyph of the double gabled roof. I know what the bull represents. I'm curious as to how it translates as a whole, especially with the glyph next to it (twisted thingy).

SC: The sign resembling the double-gabled roof (Gardiner's AA5), is believed to represent the steering gear of ship and is phonetically pronounced 'achp'. The "twisted thing" (Gardiner's sign V28) represents flax or a wick. It is also the uniliteral letter 'h' sound.

Regards,

SC

Thanks for the Wiki link. There's a bunch of glyphs I want to look up now.


Doesn't really look like anything to do with a ship though.

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Thank you for the help Scott, that filled in some of the missing puzzle pieces.

I suppose what I missed was that Carl was explaining as you did, the outer surface
was at a tilt of 19 degrees.
I can not reference a specific part to the video of Munck's where he stakes
his remarkable claim www.youtube.com...
but it is in there...must watch again.

An off topic question if I may Scott ..?

Many years during a discussion (over 30) when I was first learning about
earths ancient monuments, It was said that Giza's Great Pyramid's measurements
were based on the length of a common Hummingbird.

Have you heard of this claim and do you know where there might be information
concluding to this theory..?

I thank you in advance.

Be well

HumAnnunaki
reply to post by Scott Creighton

 

Many years during a discussion (over 30) when I was first learning about
earths ancient monuments, It was said that Giza's Great Pyramid's measurements
were based on the length of a common Hummingbird.

Have you heard of this claim and do you know where there might be information
concluding to this theory..?

Hi HumAnnunaki,

SC: No--haven't heard of this. The only connection of the hummingbird with the GP I have come across is the distance between the GP and the Aztec line humming bird:

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Regards,

SC

Scott Creighton
reply to post by lostinspace

 

Hello Lostinspace.

Great observation. I see here connections between the creator god Ptah, the bull and the Ka. Thanks again for your contribution.

Regards,

SC

Thanks for your input Scott and your appreciation of my observation.

I examined some information on the god Ptah and I see why he could be associated with the Great Pyramid. His Djed pillar reminds us of the relieving chambers above the King's chamber. If they never had blasted into that area we would never know about that construction technique within it. Only those that witnessed its construction would have known. Also, I can see why the air shafts within the pyramid match the Ka symbol. The air shafts make the shape of the outstretched hands.

lostinspace

Scott Creighton
reply to post by lostinspace

 

Hello Lostinspace.

Great observation. I see here connections between the creator god Ptah, the bull and the Ka. Thanks again for your contribution.

Regards,

SC

Thanks for your input Scott and your appreciation of my observation.

I examined some information on the god Ptah and I see why he could be associated with the Great Pyramid. His Djed pillar reminds us of the relieving chambers above the King's chamber. If they never had blasted into that area we would never know about that construction technique within it. Only those that witnessed its construction would have known. Also, I can see why the air shafts within the pyramid match the Ka symbol. The air shafts make the shape of the outstretched hands.

Hello Lostinspace,

I should have added earlier that the square sign (Gardiner's Q3) below the double-gable sign represents the uniliteral letter 'P' and is commonly used for the name of the creator god, Ptah.

Regards,

SC

reply to post by Scott Creighton


There is no rapid true polar wander this would require the earth to severely change. Polar wonder occurs at the rate of about 1 degree every million years. Your confusing this with nutation which occurs far more rapidly. See the earth is not really a sphere in order to have polar wander its shape has to change but due to the moon in orbit thats not going to happen rapidly because the moon causes the earth to bulge. If the moon were not present then yeah it could be very dramatic.

dragonridr
reply to post by Scott Creighton

 

D: There is no rapid true polar wander...

SC: Rapid True Polar Wander (RTPW) is, however, theoretically possible.

D:...this would require the earth to severely change.

SC: It did. And it did so in a relatively short period of time.

D: Polar wonder occurs at the rate of about 1 degree every million years.

SC: Which, if you had read my earlier post properly, you will see that I do, in fact, mention this very slow shift with regard to True Polar Wander.

D: Your confusing this with nutation which occurs far more rapidly.

SC: I am well aware of Chandler Wobble. And I confuse nothing. Rapid True Polar Wander (RTPW) is theoretical. I coined the term 'Rapid True Polar Wander' specifically to identify it with a mechanism of polar relocation that we know actually DOES occur, albeit over long periods of time. This mechanism (slow or rapid) is quite different from axial tilt and Earth Crust Displacement (ECD) theory.

D: See the earth is not really a sphere in order to have polar wander its shape has to change but due to the moon in orbit thats not going to happen rapidly because the moon causes the earth to bulge. If the moon were not present then yeah it could be very dramatic.

SC: This may come as something of a surprise to you, but I do, in fact, understand earth orbital dynamics reasonably well. And I know that RPTW is theoretically possible, to wit:


An additional planet as a model for the Pleistocene Ice Age.

On the change of latitude of Arctic East Siberia at the end of the Pleistocene.

Traditions connected with the pole shift model of the Pleistocene.

The Great Pyramid Indicates Pole Shift.



Now, the above papers show how RTPW is theoretically possible. In the last link (above) we can observe that the shafts of the GP show a relocation of Al Nitak by around 6 degrees. At the same time we observe in the image above that the theoretical Greenland Pole shifts around 18 degrees to the Arctic Sea i.e. the present pole. However, as a result of the Earth's obliquity, this 18 deg latitudinal relocation of the Greenland Pole results in a latitudinal change at Giza of only around 6 degrees which, as mentioned, we observe in the GP's shafts. This change in the heavens we are told in some ancient texts was observed by the AEs and is what prompted the king to have the pyramids built as 'Recovery Vaults', to store in them "...everything that was of esteem in the kingdom... so that the violence of the coming Deluge would not destroy it."

Regards,

SC

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Ok im going to do you a favor here if you plan on using the polar wader theory in an upcoming book. This theory is not saying this what happened what are three physicists were doing was trying to prove science wrong. Look in physics it is impossible for rapid polar wander to occur because are moon stabilizes earth. And 3 physicists found a way it could have occured they are not saying it did occur. In their scenario it stretches plausible alot but they did show its not impossible. But they are not saying it happened anywhere but in their mind to an imaginary earth. There theory was that an impact with Jupiter caused a planet size mass about the size of mars to narrowly miss earth and crash into the sun which could cause a rapid polar wander. As i said stretches plausible alot and there is no evidence this has happened. Ill say it again they were merely pointing out it is not impossible for a rapid shift to occur like physicists previously stated.But even their theory would be billions to one odds of ever occuring anywhere.

So if you are seriously going to put this in a book before you do contact your local physics department and talk to them about modeling theories like this.

reply to post by dragonridr


Hello Dragonridr,

D: This theory is not saying this what happened what are three physicists were doing was trying to prove science wrong.

SC: You have clearly misread their papers. They have attempted to explain a number of anomalies of the Pleistocene such as Dansgaard-Oeschger events. They attempt to explain how, in the late Holocene, mammoths were able to live in Arctic East Siberia when, now, there is not sufficient sunlight over the year for the growth of the plants on which these animals would have fed. They further attempt to explain why the Ice Age came to a (relatively) sudden end. So, contrary to what you have asserted, Woelfli & Baltensperger weren’t simply “trying to prove science wrong”. They try to explain evidence and, in so doing, have developed a model of a geographic pole shift (Rapid True Polar Wander) which you agree is perfectly possible.

D: Look in physics it is impossible for rapid polar wander to occur because are moon stabilizes earth.

SC: And yet, contrary to your view in your earlier post, you have now conceded that, in the scenario proposed by Woelfli & Baltensperger, RTPW is perfectly possible. So, something that was deemed by science (and accepted by yourself as true) to have been impossible, is now shown to be perfectly possible. By such means mindsets are changed.

And 3 physicists found a way it could have occured they are not saying it did occur. In their scenario it stretches plausible alot but they did show its not impossible. But they are not saying it happened anywhere but in their mind to an imaginary earth.

SC: And yet their theory helps explain the extant evidence and all the references to strange stellar occurrences we find reported in the Bible and other ancient texts. This theory of Woelfli & Baltensperger merely proves that rapid pole shift IS possible. That, of itself, is an enormous scientific contribution. However, the evidence of it comes in the eye-witness testimonies of our forebears, ancient people who actually witnessed RTPW occurring and wrote it down in ancient texts. And how remarkable that a pole shift of 18 degrees from central Greenland (former pole) to the Arctic Sea (present pole) would produce a relative latitudinal shift of around 6 degrees at the latitude of Giza and that is precisely what the shafts of the Great Pyramid demonstrate to us. I am not merely taking the RTPW theory of Woelfli & Baltensperger to support that this rapid pole shift event occurred in ancient times—I take the word of the ancient witnesses to that event. Woelfli & Baltensperger merely provide a mechanism through which it may occur; a mechanism which science had hitherto overlooked and thus, wrongly believed it to be impossible.

D: There theory was that an impact with Jupiter caused a planet size mass about the size of mars to narrowly miss earth and crash into the sun which could cause a rapid polar wander.

SC: Their theory is actually that one of Jupiter’s moons broke free into a long, eccentric orbit and continued in this orbit for many millions of years, contributing to the onset of previous ice ages, eventually (at some time during the early Holocene) coming so close to the Earth that it broke apart due to tidal forces and resulted in the Rapid True Polar Wander of the Earth’s poles.

D: As i said stretches plausible alot and there is no evidence this has happened.

SC: You can ignore, dismiss and disregard the ancient eye-witness accounts that recall this event if you wish—just do not expect me to follow suit.

Regards,

SC

reply to post by Scott Creighton


Im telling you the earths poles have not wandered more then 5 degrees in 130 million years we have data to prove this. So if i was you id rethink this. Here let me put you on to some real science instead of someone thats goal was to prove that it could occur. By the way read there latest stuff they had to change from the moon theory because it was shown the force it would take to move the moon out of orbit would destroy a rocky planet and leave traces in the inner solar system. So they altered it in to a large body hitting jupiter and made it mostly gas to explain the fact there is no remnants.

Now here is real science with data showing how we know where the true poles where for the last 130 million years.

adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2001E&PSL.184..549T

It has long been suspect that Col. Richard Howard-Vyse forged markings above the King's chamber. I wasn't aware of the Khufu cartouche forgery. After not finding any hieroglyph's in the great pyramid, it is suspect he made forgeries to justify the cost of his expedition.

Howard-Vyse's forgeries were accepted because it fit nicely in the desired heritage expected by modern day Egyptians.

eManym
It has long been suspect that Col. Richard Howard-Vyse forged markings above the King's chamber. I wasn't aware of the Khufu cartouche forgery. After not finding any hieroglyph's in the great pyramid, it is suspect he made forgeries to justify the cost of his expedition.

Howard-Vyse's forgeries were accepted because it fit nicely in the desired heritage expected by modern day Egyptians.

Id say this was a possibility and often thought that myself because i found it odd workman would graffiti the place. But then they found more markings in the shaft of the queens chamber so i guess it was a common practice. And if he truly wanted to forge it there would have been better ways to do it.

reply to post by dragonridr


Hello Dragonridr,

You seem to be under the impression that I do not discuss the theories of Woelfli & Baltensperger with any other physicists/scientists. Your assumption is quite wrong. Paleomagnetic research is fine for determining the former poles of (slowly) rotating tectonic plates and the Earth’s magnetic pole. But the science of paleomagnetic research is not as straightforward as you seem to think. As with much of science, many different interpretations of the paleomagnetic data can be made. There are also problems with the strength of the Earth’s magnetic field over the ages as well as the rate at which magnetic reversals happen. Take this one small example:

Just north of a truck stop along Interstate 80 in Battle Mountain, Nevada, lies evidence that the Earth’s magnetic field once went haywire.

Magnetic minerals in 15-million-year-old rocks appear to preserve a moment when the magnetic north pole was rapidly on its way to becoming the south pole, and vice versa. Such “geomagnetic field reversals” occur every couple hundred thousand years, normally taking about 4,000 years to make the change. The Nevada rocks suggest that this particular switch happened at a remarkably fast clip.

Anyone carrying a compass would have seen its measurements skew by about a degree a week — a flash in geologic time. A paper describing the discovery is slated to appear in Geophysical Research Letters...

“We’re trying to make the case that [the new work] is another record of a superfast magnetic change,” says lead author Scott Bogue, a geologist at Occidental College in Los Angeles…

Bogue and his colleague, Jonathan Glen of the U.S. Geological Survey in Menlo Park, California, went to Nevada to study a series of well-preserved lava flows. As each flow cooled, it preserved the orientation of the magnetic field at the time, frozen like a tiny compass needle in the rock’s magnetic crystals.

One particular flow caught the scientists’ attention because it seemed to carry a complex magnetic history. This lava, Bogue says, initially started to cool and then was heated again within a year as a fresh lava flow buried it. The fresh lava re-magnetized the crystals within the rock below, causing them to reorient themselves a whopping 53 degrees. At the rate the lava would have cooled, says Bogue, that would mean the magnetic field was changing direction at approximately 1 degree per week.

The Steens Mountain rocks have been reported to preserve a change of 6 degrees per day...

The Nevada rocks bolster the idea that such changes could be happening, says Bogue — even if scientists still can’t explain why.

Source

New evidence for extraordinarily rapid change of the geomagnetic field during a reversal

So, whilst it is true that the relationship of the continents (tectonic plates) to the Earth’s rotational axis can in general terms be determined using paleomagnetic data, this allows only the testing of the dipolar nature of the paleomagnetic field in past epochs from paleomagnetic data. This cannot test the axial nature of the field which requires the use of paleoclimatic data. However, the problem is that the geomagnetic pole is often at considerable variance from the actual geographic pole--by as much as 23 degrees (and even more during a complete magnetic pole reversal). In 2001 the North Magnetic Pole was around 9 degrees from the geographic north pole, whilst in the southern hemisphere in 2004, the divergence between the two was around 23.5 degrees. Thus, simply measuring the past geomagnetic pole is hardly a clear or reliable guide as to the former position of the geographic pole given that such a large variance in the physical location between the two can occur and can do so over a very short period of time.

At the end of the day, the anomalous evidence has to be explained. The eye-witness testimonies written in numerous ancient texts that describe the stars moving from their normal course have to be accounted for. Whether you agree or not, RTPW is a means to explain all of this evidence.

Regards,

SC