'''What would you do/say if you were wrong about Allah, or the Yahud version of YHWH, the god of Zoroaster or anyone elses "God" for that matter?

How would we know that we were wrong .........Is there some sort of Future prophecy on what Muhammed or the others saw???
(I know of 3 prophecy of 'Muhammed' did fail to come out ......is there any others???

See, this is what I hate about discussions such as these. Christians believe themselves to be correct no matter who says what or how much proof is offered to the contrary. Can't even speculate about any other possibility.

Yet another reason why I don't subscribe to it, the close-mindedness.

Tell me exactly how many prophecies have come true from the bible? A big fat 0...

Prove you case - quote your sources - what is your evidence - you people would never make it in a court of law - PROVE YOUR CASE.

Originally posted by BuddhaCession
Peace - Gazrok, Ibrahim Virtue and Abstract Alao.
F*ck it, Peace to all; even all you Bible thumpin' holy rollers! LOL! J/K.

Anyway; Hey BelieverinChrist.

What would you do/say if you were wrong about Allah, or the Yahud version of YHWH, the god of Zoroaster or anyone elses "God" for that matter?


Peace

I know nothing about allah ,mohammmad, or those other religions....I think they were believed to be prophets werent they? If I thought for a minite that they could save me, I would investigate further, but they dont claim that do they? Jesus died for me, gave his life for my sins, and lets not forget...stepped right into my body and saved my mortal soul dude, I got a taste of Gods power that night. That feeling that was in me I want to feel forever. I dont think those other guys have that, do they? If they do or maybe you can tell me , what can the ones you named do for me or for us? Can they save me? Can they be the way unto the father? Can they rise from the dead? Can they perform miracles? Tell me what did they do?...............Believer

What has God done; besides get people killed?

i believe jesus or yeshua is one of the great guru or master in knowledge or one of the greatest phrophets
and in the armaggedon he is the great commander in the field but will not stand same with the western political policies thinking or what so ever but stay on the truth to god thank you

Originally posted by helen670

what is it that you think you lost???

Being a Christian..........what is so bad about loving all people , kindness, forgiving , doing no harm, ........what is it that you wish to seek in compensation.???
And if...''if'' you truly lived by Christian morals!
What is is that you lost ???

helen, nothing is lost, really. However, fewer and fewer "Christians" are faithful ALL OF THE TIME. That's how I see the difference between "religions" and "philosophies" or "ways of life": those who follow religions (for the most part) tend to be faithful only when it benefits them, or only part of the time (such as Sundays and sometimes Wednesdays for Christians). Also, I've noticed that those that have 'ways of life' to follow, are faithful most (if not all) of the time.
There are too many hypocritical and ignorant Christians for me to want to call myself one. Few of them (that I've seen..again, I'm in southern Baptist country) act Christian all the time (they go to church on Sunday, then on Monday, they get so drunk they can't see, have sex with 7 women in a night, etc.); and almost none of them want to even consider the fact that god might not exist, unless they want to go to hell. That sounds awfully familiar...hmm...oh yes! It's the same with the U.S. government! You either believe in it, or you don't; and if you don't, you better watch your tail! Chrisitianity lives off of fear; if Christians didn't fear hell, Christianity wouldn't be as "successful" (in brainwashing everyone) as it is now.
Now anyway, back to your quote helen: why is it necessary to be Christian to be loving to all, kind, forgiving, etc.? Even then, few Christians I've met are jerks, and they try to drag you into their church, and they're nice, kind, etc. then; but if you refuse to go, or if you go and stop attending all of a sudden, they gossip like you wouldn't believe. It's like all of god's laws don't exist for the Christian if somebody stops believing - they're free to attack that person, verbally and physically, if they quit (or don't believe in THEIR god). And we wonder why there are wars... yet we're so intelligent

Now, as for Jesus and his existence. I DO believe that he existed, and I also believe that he did the "miracles" that he did; however, I don't believe that it was from a "divine source" (not as it's taught, anyway). I believe that Jesus was one of the first, and probably the most powerful and successful "New Age Healers" in history. In my opinion (I'm not stating this as fact, so don't ask for evidence, or anything idiotic), he may have done chakra and other healing work, simply enough. Of course, he also could've been an alien, but that's a discussion for later *waits for verbal attacks from Uber-Christians to prove his previous points*

"I think in these end times we are going to see miracles performed so great and so unimagineable that no one will be able to deny"

I think you will be sorely disappointed. These aren't the "end times" and God/Jesus hasn't put in a personal appearance in over 2000 years, and isn't due in anytime soon.....

But it's good to see Christians asking questions of their faith, instead of blind acceptance....bravo!

"they go to church on Sunday, then on Monday, they get so drunk they can't see, have sex with 7 women in a night, etc."

Hell, I think I might go back to Baptism!!!

[Edited on 22-5-2003 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by Byrd

(and anyway, that scenario of "God shows up and says why did you deny my son" isn't supported by Near Death research. According to recorded NDEs, almost everyone ends up in a pleasant afterlife, regardless of their beliefs.)

He shoots...... He scores!!!

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by Byrd

(and anyway, that scenario of "God shows up and says why did you deny my son" isn't supported by Near Death research. According to recorded NDEs, almost everyone ends up in a pleasant afterlife, regardless of their beliefs.)

He shoots...... He scores!!!

Yes i agree............

Near death is not meant to show you heaven/hell .........
Almost all people that do experience 'near death'' see a peaceful , beautiful scenario, but it means nothing to have a 'vision ' type of an afterlife(though not all near death is based on a lie )..........Only because i know that the devil can make you believe and think that you are ''worthy'' to go to heaven , and so , having a ''near death '' experience of a peaceful place can make you think that your life is good and there is no need to change anything about it.........even though you may not have changed to a better person,or changed your way of life , you believe that you have been chosen (near death on peaceful afterlife)to receive this revelation ........cases like this are often dismissed by Church fathers and many times are proven to be demoniv in nature.......only because the devil........is the prince of the air..........and he is a liar...........Father of lies....

I don't believe Jesus was the Son of God but does that mean I can't believe in his message of universal peace and unity? Jesus was a son of God just like the rest of humanity and we all share a common Father and He is in Heaven, just like Jesus said.

I pray and worship a higher person than Jesus. Jesus did the same.

illmatic...........that is all fine........

but what if muhammeds ''revelations about the end of times are wrong!!!
What if that what he said are a lie...........then what does a ''muslim'' do ???

Originally posted by helen670
illmatic...........that is all fine........

but what if muhammeds ''revelations about the end of times are wrong!!!
What if that what he said are a lie...........then what does a ''muslim'' do ???

Another failed attempt.

Helen, will you ever understand? We're on the same team, Muslims and Christians. We worship the same God. Muslims believe in the Final Judgment just like the Christians do. What's there to debate?

illmatic..........im not debating.........

All i'm saying is .........if muslims believe in ''Revelation''(New Testament ) and that Jesus Christ will judge the living and the dead........then what does it profit a ''muslim'' to trust in the words of ''Muhammed''???

Is it not a false hope of what ''Muhammed'' taught as the end of the world scenario???
What will it profit a ''Muslim'' if the hope of one day joining him in heaven is not really heaven........and it's too late???
Revelation speaks of the end of the world scenario........it tells you of a worldleader that will be the Antichrist.......the opposite of Christ......the immitation of what Christ really stands for......he will fool many people in believing him to be God come on earth to trust in him......
How will a ''Muslim'' perceive this???
How will a Muslim know if it is the Antichrist???
What will a Muslim do when that time comes???

I'm just asking a question.......not looking for an argument...........
What prophetic vision does a Muslim have on the end of times???

I believe helen is saying whatever you say is wrong, whatever she says is right.

Did I miss anything?

This was quoted from post by Lobo
helen, nothing is lost, really. However, fewer and fewer "Christians" are faithful ALL OF THE TIME. That's how I see the difference between "religions" and "philosophies" or "ways of life": those who follow religions (for the most part) tend to be faithful only when it benefits them, or only part of the time (such as Sundays and sometimes Wednesdays for Christians). Also, I've noticed that those that have 'ways of life' to follow, are faithful most (if not all) of the time.
There are too many hypocritical and ignorant Christians for me to want to call myself one. Few of them (that I've seen..again, I'm in southern Baptist country) act Christian all the time (they go to church on Sunday, then on Monday, they get so drunk they can't see, have sex with 7 women in a night, etc.); and almost none of them want to even consider the fact that god might not exist, unless they want to go to hell. That sounds awfully familiar...hmm...oh yes! It's the same with the U.S. government! You either believe in it, or you don't; and if you don't, you better watch your tail! Chrisitianity lives off of fear; if Christians didn't fear hell, Christianity wouldn't be as "successful" (in brainwashing everyone) as it is now.
Now anyway, back to your quote helen: why is it necessary to be Christian to be loving to all, kind, forgiving, etc.? Even then, few Christians I've met are jerks, and they try to drag you into their church, and they're nice, kind, etc. then; but if you refuse to go, or if you go and stop attending all of a sudden, they gossip like you wouldn't believe. It's like all of god's laws don't exist for the Christian if somebody stops believing - they're free to attack that person, verbally and physically, if they quit (or don't believe in THEIR god). And we wonder why there are wars... yet we're so intelligent If these so called christians that you know are doing these things, then I say that they were never really saved at all! Im not juding them individually , just on the aspect of what you said. If anyone goes to church and does the things you said- they never accepted the Christ that I did-we all sin but when you are saved and I mean truly saved you emerge a new creature and I believe if you go back to the way you were-then I think the Lord will take you right out of here........................................Believer

[Edited on 23-5-2003 by believerinchrist]

Originally posted by Lysergic
I believe helen is saying whatever you say is wrong, whatever she says is right.

Did I miss anything?

Yes you did. She is asking a queston and it seems that no one can give an answer. Im interested to read one.............Believer

Yes, all I want is an answer.........thank you believer.


I'm not saying that one should accept as to what I say is the truth (i honestly believe it to be ).... the post relates to What will you say/do, if you are wrong about Jesus ......................then what will one do ???

I am christian , yes.......but im not for definite considered ''worthy'' to go to heaven........one has 'hope'' and through 'hope'' one can live a life hoping to be accepted...........through 'struggle'' and through life's many paths that lead to many roads , good/or bad , one has hope in the after life to feel comforted in one self.........only through Judgement to all ,one can hope that this life(earthly ) will bring an end to mortal life and seek the road that was benefited to each .......according to their life lead on earth , you shall receive ......................
That is why ......................one can only benefit if one has knowledge of why we exist today,and why our existence will one day give us our 'kingdom that has no end...........to all shall reap what they sow..........
I know why i chose to follow Jesus Christ............
Now why does one chose to follow Muhammed???
What is it that he said , that one has definite answers that Muhammed was a prophet , and what has he revealed about the end of times???

So you're basically saying that you won't allow for people to believe in any religion or faith than you're own. How retarded is that? If God's supposed to be all loving and forgiving or whatever he wouldn't care about that as long as you weren't a total bastard during your life, surely?

No.

She's being asked to defend her beliefs and merely asking others to do the same.

Instead of pointing out what's wrong with her beliefs, tell us what is right about yours.

(correct me if i'm wrong Helen.)